quote:

Originally posted by JLarsson:
If guns are now on their "prohibited by the carrier" list, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to send them through UPS anyway.

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Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
I don't know why you would even tell them you are shipping a rifle or a long gun. It avoids a lot of arguements with stupid postal clerks. Any person who can legally own the long gun can ship it to an FFL dealer or they can ship it to another address in care of themself. Don't argue with them,,don't even tell them whats in the box, it is none of there business.

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ca_reloader: To mail a firearm using USPS you must be a dealer or manufacturer.

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11.0 Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter
11.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms
11.1.1 Definitions
The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

a. Handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard.

b. Pistol or revolver means a handgun styled to be fired by the use of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

d. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.

e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

f. Licensed manufacturer and licensed dealer mean, respectively, a manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer of firearms, duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), 18 USC 921, et seq.

g. Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

11.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 11.1.3 and 11.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 11.1.4 and 11.1.6.

11.1.3 Authorized Persons
Subject to 11.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:

a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.

b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.

c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.

e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.

f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.

g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e.

11.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee
Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 11.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee's official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:

a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.

b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.

c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.

d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e, Authorized Persons.

11.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

11.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers
A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 11.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.

11.1.7 FBI Crime Detection Bureaus
Handguns may be mailed without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6 if:

a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or

b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.

11.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6.

11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.

11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
I have never been asked by my post office. But I admit I can always learn something new.
Where does it state I must inform the post office the package contains a long gun? What does x raying have to do with it? They dont mark the package as carrying a rifle or shotgun if you tell them. Sorry, I don't see the connection.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Thanks,
Do I find this on the USPS web site or ATF? Having a difficult time researching it

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CAVEAT: Do your own research, I am not giving you any advice. Figure out the rules on your own. Don't call me if you are arrested, it is not my fault!!!

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The Federal statutes that require anyone shipping a firearm to notify the carrier that the shipment contains a firearm.

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After I proved her wrong, she went and got her manager who told me I have to go downtown to the main processing facility to do it. I am sure it will be the same saga over again but who knows.

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You should have pitched a bitch to the Postmaster as to how stupid his employees are for one, and his Stupidvisors are not usually considered mensa material either!

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Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Thanks,
Do I find this on the USPS web site or ATF? Having a difficult time researching it

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Originally posted by joecool:
And you DO NOT have to be a dealer to ship long guns via USPS. .

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Originally posted by stepchild 2:

After the deal was done I read the fine print listed under "Terms and Conditions" I'm not going to type the whole paragraph but the following sentence got my attention:

No claim will be honored for items such as Guns, hazardous materials, alcoholic beverages, perishables or any other item prohibited by the carrier.
You can draw your own conclusions but no more Guns of mine are going by UPS.

Stepchild

quote:

Originally posted by Recoil Rob:

quote:

Originally posted by stepchild 2:

After the deal was done I read the fine print listed under "Terms and Conditions" I'm not going to type the whole paragraph but the following sentence got my attention:

No claim will be honored for items such as Guns, hazardous materials, alcoholic beverages, perishables or any other item prohibited by the carrier.
You can draw your own conclusions but no more Guns of mine are going by UPS.

Stepchild

I can't seem to find this in the current UPS regs. can you tell me the sectio it's in?

This is from the current regs.


16
535
LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY
Each UPS domestic package or international shipment is automatically protected by UPS against loss or
damage up to a value of $100.00 (U.S.). Unless a greater value is recorded in the declared value field of
the UPS source document or the UPS shipping system used, the shipper agrees that the released value
of each domestic package or international shipment is no greater than $100.00 (U.S.), which is a
reasonable value under the circumstances surrounding the transportation, and that UPS shall not be
liable for more than $100.00 for each domestic package or international shipment. If additional protection
is desired, the shipper may declare a value in excess of $100.00 by showing a value in excess of $100.00
in the declared value field of the UPS source document or the UPS shipping system used. An additional
charge as set forth in the UPS Rates in effect at the time of shipping will be assessed.
Whenever property is damaged or lost by UPS in the course of transportation, and a valid claim has been
filed in accordance with Items 510, 520, and 525, UPS will pay, at its option, the lowest of the following,
not to exceed $100.00: (1) for the damaged or lost goods; (2) for the purchase price paid by the
consignee (where the property involved has been sold to the consignee); (3) for the actual cost or
replacement cost of the property; or (4) for the cost of repairing the damaged property.
Where a value has been declared and the applicable charges paid, UPS’s maximum liability shall not
exceed the lesser of: (1) the declared value on the UPS source document or shipping system used; (2)
the lesser of the purchase price paid by the consignee (where the property involved has been sold to the
consignee), the actual cost, or the replacement cost of the property; (3) the cost of repairing the damaged
property; (4) $50,000.00 per package, except for (i) packages shipped via a UPS Drop Box, in which case
UPS’s maximum liability shall be $500.00 per package, (ii) packages shipped as the result of a request
for service made through the Internet by a shipper who has a UPS Internet shipping account only, in
which case UPS’s maximum liability shall be $5,000.00 per package, (iii) packages returned via UPS Print
Return Label, UPS Print and Mail Return Label, Electronic Return Label, or 1 UPS Pickup Attempt Return
Services, in which case UPS’s maximum liability shall be $1,000.00 per package, and (iv) packages for
which Shipper Release is selected, in which case UPS’s maximum liability shall be $999.00 per package,
or (5) $500.00 for international jewelry (not including costume jewelry) shipments.
RULES AND OTHER PROVISIONS WHICH GOVERN THE
TRANSPORTATION OF PROPERTY
17
In the event of loss of or damage to any article or articles which are part of a pair or set, UPS will be liable
only for an amount consisting of the reasonable and fair proportion of the total value of the pair or set,
giving consideration to the importance of said article or articles, but in no event shall such loss or damage
be construed to mean total loss of the pair or set.
In the event of loss of or damage to any part of property (including any part of a machine) consisting,
when complete for sale or use, of several parts, UPS will be liable only for the value of the part lost or
damaged, not to exceed the declared value of the part lost or damaged.
When UPS pays the actual cost, the purchase price, or the replacement cost of the property, title to the
property shall thereupon pass to UPS; otherwise, the damaged property shall be returned to the shipper.
UPS will not be liable or responsible for the loss of or damage to any package, the contents of which
shippers are prohibited from shipping, which UPS is not authorized to accept, which UPS states that it will
not accept, or which UPS has a right to refuse. UPS will not voluntarily pay a claim for loss or damage to
property unless all applicable transportation and other charges have been paid. UPS shall not be liable
for and reserves the right in its sole discretion to deny claims pertaining to a package for which there are
no UPS records reflecting that the package was tendered to UPS by the shipper.
UPS will not be liable or responsible for the loss of or damage to (1) articles of unusual value (as defined
in Item 460), (2) any package resulting from insects, moths, vermin, inherent vice (including, but not
limited to, improper, inadequate, or unsafe packaging or wrapping that fails to meet UPS's published
standards related thereto set forth in this Tariff or elsewhere), deterioration, dampness of atmosphere,
extreme of temperature, ordinary wear and tear, or that which occurred or arose prior to or after the
course of transportation by UPS, (3) perishable commodities or commodities requiring protection from
heat or cold, to the extent the loss or damage results from exposure to heat or cold or the perishable
nature of the items, (4) human remains, fetal remains, human body parts, or components thereof, (5)
packages lost or damaged due to war risks, acts of God, or natural disasters; (6) packages lost or
damaged due to nuclear damage, (7) packages with a value in excess of $5,000.00 when the package is
shipped as a result of a request for service made through the Internet by a shipper who has a UPS
Internet shipping account only, (8) packages having a value of more than $500.00 if shipped via a UPS
Drop Box, (9) Prepaid Letters having a value of more than $100.00, (10) packages shipped internationally
containing jewelry (not including costume jewelry) with a value in excess of $500.00, (11) packages
having a value of more than $1,000.00 returned via UPS Print Return Label, UPS Print and Mail Return
Label, Electronic Return Label, or 1 UPS Pickup Attempt Return Services, or (12) packages having a
value of more than $999.00 when Shipper Release is selected.
UPS's liability for a package containing a check or checks is limited to the cost of stopping payment on
and reissuing the check(s), not to exceed $100.00 per package. In no event shall UPS be liable for the
face value of the check(s). UPS's liability for a package containing a phone card, gift certificate, or gift
card is limited to the cost (which shall not include any amount of the value attached to the card or
certificate) of replacing the physical card(s) or certificate(s), not to exceed $100.00 per package. In no
event shall UPS be liable for the face value of any phone card, gift certificate, or gift card.
Declaring a value in the declared value field of the UPS source document or UPS shipping system used
does not provide protection for, and shippers may not declare a value for protection for, any damages
related to providing, or the failure to provide, C.O.D. service, including but not limited to: failure to collect
the C.O.D. amount; failure to collect the specified form of payment; collection of an instrument in the
wrong amount; failure or delay in delivering the collected instrument to the shipper; or collection of forged,
insufficient funds, or otherwise invalid instruments.
UPS does not provide a protective service for the transportation of perishable commodities or
commodities requiring protection from heat or cold. Such commodities will be accepted for transportation
solely at the shipper's risk for any loss or damage arising from the perishable nature of the item. Shippers
shall not file claims for, and UPS shall not be liable to shippers or any third parties for, any damage
arising from the transportation of perishable commodities or commodities requiring protection from heat or
cold, regardless of whether the package is delivered pursuant to an applicable UPS Service Guarantee or
is delayed in transit. UPS reserves the right to dispose of any package in the UPS system containing a
perishable commodity that, in UPS's sole discretion, is deemed to be unsafe or unsanitary.
RULES AND OTHER PROVISIONS WHICH GOVERN THE
TRANSPORTATION OF PROPERTY
In the event that UPS fails to attempt delivery in accordance with the terms of the UPS Service
Guarantee, set forth in full in the Terms and Conditions of Service in the UPS Rate and Service Guide
and at ups.com, UPS, at its option, will either credit or refund the transportation charges for each such
package to the payer only, upon request, provided that the conditions set forth in the UPS Service
Guarantee are met. This is the sole remedy available under the UPS Service Guarantee.
Any declared value in excess of the maximums allowed in the applicable UPS Tariff or Service Guide is
null and void. Acceptance for carriage of any package bearing a declared value in excess of the allowed
maximums specified in the applicable UPS Tariff or Service Guide, or any package containing articles
that shippers are prohibited from shipping or that UPS does not or is not authorized to accept for
transportation, does not constitute a waiver of any provision of the Tariff or Service Guide limiting UPS's
liability or responsibility for any such package.
Under no circumstances shall UPS be liable for any special, incidental, or consequential damages,
including but not limited to, damages arising from loss, misdelivery of, or damage to property, delayed
delivery, or failure to attempt delivery in accordance with the UPS Service Guarantee. Under no
circumstances shall UPS be liable for any damages whatsoever for delayed delivery, except as
specifically provided for shipments made under the UPS Service Guarantee.
UPS shall not be liable for any damages arising from UPS's inability, failure, or refusal to comply with a
request to stop, return or reroute shipment of a package after tender to UPS.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Guns are not prohibited on UPS but supposedly they need to be sent from a UPS office and not a UPS store. The interesting thing is time and time again, personnel at a UPS store will not only take your firearm for shipment but will sell you insurance for it's shipment. Now how does that mesh?

I personally would never send one by UPS. They never honored warranty claims when they broke stuff. They use their coroporate attorneys to chisel you out of whatever they can.

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Originally posted by stepchild 2:
The firearm in question was shipped at a UPS "store" as I didn't want to wait until 3pm for the UPS terminal to open(3-6)

Stepchild

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Originally posted by ca_reloader:
The problem is that a UPS Store is not part of UPS, it is a privately owned franchise. That is why UPS rules state that you must use your regular pickup or a service center. Insurance coverage is not your real problem. The bigger problem you have is that you have violated ATF transfer rules. Granted, these people should know the rules but the addage ignorance is no defense applies. If the firearm is shipped per UPS rules, there is not a problem with coverage.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Ca reloader, how has he violated ATF transfer rules? A non licensee can send a rifle via ups if it is going in state or to a repair facility anywhere in the US. The ATF is not concerned if you are in error with UPS rules.

BTW I hope you are cleared up on sending firearms via USPS. You do not need to be a licensee to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by ca_reloader:
Customstox, Stepchild:

I admit I was incorrect about long guns.

The problem is that you have not given the firearm to UPS. A UPS Store is not UPS. UPS clearly states that any firearm must be shipped at a service center or a regular pickup. You handed your firearm to a person, no different than if you hand handed it to someone walking down the street. There was no background check, no 4473, and if applicable, no waiting period. The situation is very similar to the recent posts about how FedEx handles insurance claims. I'm not trying to find fault with what has happened, just to point out the real problems that can occur if you do not follow the published proceedures on shipping firearms.