None of the above, I just can't think of anything better to sink my gobs of excess cash into, lol.

Using a big game rifle as the specific example then I would have voted for all of the choices if possible but with only one choice then mechanical reliablility etc. comes first.



I like that picture. Those are not my rifles.

Heck, it's a combo of most of those things, except for the first one. None of my rifles are status symbols.... Most are built on M700 actions, which work wonderfully for my purposes, but are hardly at a "worship" level compared to a lot of "custom" rigs. And a lot are spraypainted (at least the stocks are). But they certainly do shoot well.

However, the rest usually apply, to one degree or another, based upon the rifle.

Personalization? Yep, usually I want to put it together "my" way, whatever that is. (It changes over time...)

Mechanical? Yep, reliability & potential for accuracy definitely come into play, although truly, with most any modern quality rifle, reliability is almost a given any more...

Beauty? No (see above ). Uniqueness? Again, yeah, but sometimes uniquness is very narrowly defined and not always a positive!

Lastly, accuracy? Definitely. But honestly, I have a few bone stock factory rifles that will outshoot almost all of my "custom" rifles. I have a M700 VS in 22-250 that is scary accurate. I have a M700 PSS in 223 that you wouldn't believe. I will NEVER mess with them, unless some day I manage to shoot the barrels out and absolutely NEED to redo them. (I sure hope that day never comes!)

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I like that picture. Those are not my rifles.

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I remember that pic because of the Zebra rug. Nice set indeed but the scopes are a bit much.

Honestly, my first custom rifles were a fluke. My mother in law put my guns on the basement floor shortly after we moved into our newly built house and the sump pump wasn't working and we had a hard rain. Guns in soft cases, unbeknownst to me got wet and rusted.

Homeowners paid to get them 'fixed' and it was almost as cost effective to get a nice stainless match grade barrel as opposed to sending them back to factory which would have taken twice as long.

So, I sent out 5 rifles for 5 different barrels: PacNor, Shilen, Broughton-Richards, Hart and Lilja.

All are very accurate. All were blueprinted, the whole 9 yards.

Couldn't be happier.

Just because:

quote:

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Originally posted by T.Carr:
Just because:

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Wow! Thanks for sharing the pics..

L-R My .375, Game Scout's .458 Win Mag, My .416 Rem Mag and PH's .577 NE

My rifles are by Roger Biesen

Well-built custom rifles are like an insurance policy on the life of the hunt -- make that a lifetime of hunts.

I buy custom rifles for the training, skill, and experience of the man whose work I'm hiring, as well as fundamental design superiority and component superiority that cannot be obtained with a factory-produced rifle. It's all about design, quality, and performance -- nothing else.

Of course, there's always the kitchen-table idiot who isn't even honestly self-trained (after all, how can the blind and ignorant successfully lead then blind and ignorant?), but thinks he's the equal to any custom riflesmith in the world, as well as that other breed of imbecile who thinks his piece of Jap-junk he bought at Walmart is "just as good" as the finest custom rifle on the planet. Both critter-types think that since good custom rifles exceed their own personal budgets that said custom rifles are nothing more than an excessive waste of money and won't do anything that their home-grown psuedo-custom efforts won't at least equal, or even exceed. Their experience and their budget is supposed to be everyones' budget and boundry, right?????????????

How could it be any other way............

AD

OOHH MY !!!

Because with a good action (I've used M70's, a Vanguard and a '03-A3), I know my customs will shoot if I do my part. And they usually end up looking much better

I too think it is a combination. of the things that you mentioned there number three, mechanical, is of course number one. then I guess that 2 and 4 come into play too. Mostly it is because like Allen I believe you hire the right craftsman, the best that you can find. you get their knowledge and experience put together into something that will be unlike what you could buy off the shelf.

For me I am infatuated with the mechanics of the guns, what makes them perfect in fuction and feel. I have said thatif I never hunted again I would still love them. My 375 feeds without problem, shoots well, and really needed nothing, but a custom touch of inlay to "personalize" it. doesn't give status to me as almost nobody but me looks at it, but when I see it I get pleasure from the added touch.

with a full custom I am getting to intimately know everything done to my rifle and why. Things that even your average gunsmith (the ones that don't do full blowns but know barrel installs and what not) might not know how to do.

This of course does not mean everybody needs to spend that much to have a good hunting rifle. I only have one custom and it isn't even finished, awaiting funds. It might be the only custom I ever commission/buy, but it will be just the way that I would like it.

Now, if I win the 81mil lottery tomorrow.......

Red

I believe that like fine art, fast cars and grand old houses, custom rifles give us a reason to work hard, to achieve more and to enjoy life to the full when we get them made for us. I have my first in the very initial stages and though it is not going to be anywhere near as elaborate or expensive as many of the rifles here, it would keep me happy for many years, and definitely until the end of my life.

Nice poll. Thanks for posting and good hunting!

I voted couse I like it my way or more accuratly I want it the way I want it. I have one custom and I am waiting on my second. No big name smith just a local that is very good and makes a living at it. I think that everyone would agree that we all want the very best we can afford. I do think even though we don't admit it there is a little "show off" with every custom built even if it is not the main reason.

quote:

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Originally posted by allen day:


Of course, there's always the kitchen-table idiot who isn't even honestly self-trained (after all, how can the blind and ignorant successfully lead then blind and ignorant?), but thinks he's the equal to any custom riflesmith in the world, as well as that other breed of imbecile who thinks his piece of Jap-junk he bought at Walmart is "just as good" as the finest custom rifle on the planet. Both critter-types think that since good custom rifles exceed their own personal budgets that said custom rifles are nothing more than an excessive waste of money and won't do anything that their home-grown psuedo-custom efforts won't at least equal, or even exceed. Their experience and their budget is supposed to be everyones' budget and boundry, right?????????????

How could it be any other way............

AD

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I may be a "Kitchen-Table idiot who isn't even honestly self-trained" but I do like whitlin on a stick of wood every once in a while......









...I know that my stuff isn't anywhere near a David Miller, Darwin Nelson or D'Arcy Echols made gun but I guarantee you that I'm just as proud to hunt with my rifles as someone who can afford to spend $15,000 on a rifle because Damit I made them with my own hands and didn't have to rely on someone else to make something that I can enjoy.
Custom rifles aren't about pumping up your own ego by being able to afford better gunsmiths than everyone else, they are about trying to find a way to come up with something thats special to you. Whether that specialness is painting the stock on your $300 Savage or Picking out a $3000 French Walnut Blank it's adding something to a firearm that makes it something different than everybody elses - it's yours..........DJ

DJ,
That is impressive work!
You should be very proud, not only in your work but in your fine taste.

Kyler

DJ, very well said and a very nice rifle indeed. I have often noticed that many people confuse price with value; you obviously do not.

quote:

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Of course, there's always the kitchen-table idiot who isn't even honestly self-trained (after all, how can the blind and ignorant successfully lead then blind and ignorant?), but thinks he's the equal to any custom riflesmith in the world, as well as that other breed of imbecile who thinks his piece of Jap-junk he bought at Walmart is "just as good" as the finest custom rifle on the planet. Both critter-types think that since good custom rifles exceed their own personal budgets that said custom rifles are nothing more than an excessive waste of money and won't do anything that their home-grown psuedo-custom efforts won't at least equal, or even exceed. Their experience and their budget is supposed to be everyones' budget and boundry, right?????????????

How could it be any other way............

AD

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Something strike a nerve here or what? Take a friggin pill..

quote:

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but I guarantee you that I'm just as proud to hunt with my rifles as someone who can afford to spend $15,000 on a rifle because Damit I made them with my own hands and didn't have to rely on someone else to make something that I can enjoy.
.......DJ

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Only those who have at least tried it, be they a "kitchen table idiot" or a student of the finest school, will ever fully appreciate the gravity of what youve just said. Or possibly someone who has at least watched it done. There is definatley a sense of pride in such an item that cant be reflected by a price tag.


I really liked Mehul Kamdars response as well.. Well said Mehul!

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Originally posted by Dago Red:
of the things that you mentioned there number three, mechanical, is of course number one.

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DR,

You make that sound like a given, not so. Check the poll results.

At least one thing should be very clear now, that we like them for different reasons.

If anyone actually votes for the prestige category, I will have to personally congradulate them for their honesty, its certianly not proving to be the popular choice.

Surley someone must have a David Miller double mounted behind the front seat of their Beemer..

I would think that it would be the best reason, and is number one for me. the mechanical that is. I don't mess with any of my rifles that function right. I have an Sears FN that I bought to build off of, made the mistake of shooting it and now can't bring myself to change anything on it (except it needs a new grip cap).

Since I am going to do the stock on mine myself it definitely will not be for show.

the whole reason I decided to go with mine as a custom is it was partially done already and was not functioning properly. I could have just lived with it and retrained myself on the bolt pull. instead I decided I would go ahead and pursue getting what needed to be made right done so that it would be a 100% of the time functioning rifle. I am not going for glitz on it, it is a 1917win. in 458, it will retain original safety, won't be setup for a scope, nothing particularly eye catching. But like the simple inlay on my 375, I prefer for it to be understated. I think that the guys that truly know what a gun is about will appreciate it.

I'll admit though that if my skills ever improve (meaning if I ever get time to hone them) I do plan on stocking all my rifles with better wood, and that is purely a looks thing! I have always wanted to do something impressive with wood.

Red

quote:

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Originally posted by allen day:
Of course, there's always the kitchen-table idiot who isn't even honestly self-trained (after all, how can the blind and ignorant successfully lead then blind and ignorant?), but thinks he's the equal to any custom riflesmith in the world, as well as that other breed of imbecile who thinks his piece of Jap-junk he bought at Walmart is "just as good" as the finest custom rifle on the planet. Both critter-types think that since good custom rifles exceed their own personal budgets that said custom rifles are nothing more than an excessive waste of money and won't do anything that their home-grown psuedo-custom efforts won't at least equal, or even exceed. Their experience and their budget is supposed to be everyones' budget and boundry, right?????????????

How could it be any other way............

AD

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==============================================

"My insecurity brings all the shrinks to the yard,
and their like,
mine's better than yours,
damn right is better than yours,
i can’t teach you,
my beauty is a mirage… "

quote:

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Originally posted by allen day:
Of course, there's always the kitchen-table idiot who isn't even honestly self-trained (after all, how can the blind and ignorant successfully lead then blind and ignorant?), but thinks he's the equal to any custom riflesmith in the world, as well as that other breed of imbecile who thinks his piece of Jap-junk he bought at Walmart is "just as good" as the finest custom rifle on the planet. Both critter-types think that since good custom rifles exceed their own personal budgets that said custom rifles are nothing more than an excessive waste of money and won't do anything that their home-grown psuedo-custom efforts won't at least equal, or even exceed. Their experience and their budget is supposed to be everyones' budget and boundry, right?????????????
AD

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True to form. Predictability is a good thing, I suppose.
- mike

Thank you, DJ. I just wish my backyard skills were as good as yours......

MKane160

quote:

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Originally posted by djpaintles:
...I know that my stuff isn't anywhere near a David Miller, Darwin Nelson or D'Arcy Echols made gun but I guarantee you that I'm just as proud to hunt with my rifles as someone who can afford to spend $15,000 on a rifle because Damit I made them with my own hands and didn't have to rely on someone else to make something that I can enjoy.
Custom rifles aren't about pumping up your own ego by being able to afford better gunsmiths than everyone else, they are about trying to find a way to come up with something thats special to you. Whether that specialness is painting the stock on your $300 Savage or Picking out a $3000 French Walnut Blank it's adding something to a firearm that makes it something different than everybody elses - it's yours..........DJ

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dj-

You nailed it.

After reading through the responses, I was thinking we need another poll.... "What is a custom?" And offer choices like "Building a rifle to your tastes", "Building what you want , just because", and "Look at me, I outspent the Jones's".

My idea of a "custom", FOR ME, is a shooter, not a looker. I don't have any that warrant front page coverage in a magazine or advertisement. But I *do* have some rifles that shoot extremely well. And those rifles make me happy when I shoot them. Others are built for a more or less specific hunting mission. Those make me happy too when they do their job in the field. And some are even borderline "pretty" along the way. But looks is definitely not my first priority...

It seems that "custom" is interpreted in many different ways...

BTW, your work is beautiful! And to have done it yourself? Even better!

To me a custom is just that! Whether it is a custom home, car or bike or gun. You hire someone of your choosing to build what you want and like.
I am in the process of having a custom built now and it is a true odd ball but it is being built the way I want it in the caliber I want. I am leaving the factory Super Grade stock on it for the present time until I decide what I really want for wood.

dj, your work is just beyond words, outstanding.

Man, that's a work of art....I mean the rifles too! jorge

Jimmy,

That is amazing!

Allen, once again you nailed it.

Chuck

DJ,

I think you are among the happiest custom rifle owners - an elite group who have the skills to make their own rifles and hunt with them. Beautiful work and congratulations on your skills and taste.

Good hunting!

djpaintes, you're not the brand of character I was talking about. From all appearances, you have considerable talent, as do a tiny minority of truly top-notch professional riflemakers who never set foot in gunsmithing school. Keep doing what you're doing.........

The type of character I'm referring to is the type of buffoon I was in an elk camp with 20 yrs. ago who had adjusted the trigger himself on his Remington 700 BDL 7mm Rem. Mag. When he came into camp that night, he flicked off the safety to unload and his rifle went off, giving everyone in camp not on one heck of a start, but also blowing a hole thru his truck at the same time. Not only was his gun handling lousy, he didn't know that trigger system like he thought he did, either. One of the guys later asked, "Why didn't you take that gun into a gunsmith to get the trigger worked over?" The buffoon answered, "They charge fifty bucks to do Remington triggers!" Yeah.........

The subject of custom rifles to me isn't about money or snob appeal, it's about quality and performance, nothing more and nothing less.

Gee whizz Wstrnhuntr & Savage99, I'm sorry to have offended you so. Did my description sound like you?

AD

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Originally posted by jimmyd223:
http://josh.middlepath.com/meanjon/vz1.gif

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What did you say...

For me,I always want the best I can get.
Whether binocs,spotters,or a rifle.If I get
off a hunt and I think a new tent will work
better...I work to get one.

Now as beautiful as dj's
choice is...it would not be my choice.My
guns take a beating and I lean towards the
fine grain of a McMillan or a Legends stocked
rifle.

Which leads us to the best reason for a "custom".Custom rifles are like women.
Some of us like blonds,some redheads,some brunettes...Some like 'em all.

For me it's function.Always looking for a
better mouse trap.

DJ,
Well said and as always, gorgeous work. I would be honored to join the "kitchen table idiot society" with you.

quote:

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Originally posted by allen day:
Gee whizz Wstrnhuntr & Savage99, I'm sorry to have offended you so. Did my description sound like you?
AD

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Allen Day,

We all appreciate a good debate and it's obvious to all that you in particular have the energy to carry one on.

What leaves you open to criticism is the way you express your passion for the best of everything. One thinks of the term "noveau riche" when others do it. Not that I would accuse you of it.

As I suggested before "He who wishes to exert a useful influence must be careful to insult nothing. Let him not be troubled by what seems absurd, but concentrate his energies to the creation of what is good. He must not demolish, but build. He must raise temples where mankind may come and partake of the purest pleasure.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
German dramatist, novelist, poet, & scientist (1749 - 1832) "
Why not try to build up what you like with reasons for your stuffs superiority? I am sure you have many stories.

Here is an example of what I mean: "I (Allen Day) felt confident, in fact deep confidence, in my Legend rifle. The days had been hard with freezing weather and a misfire would spoil such an effort by us all. Knowing that every component off my rifle was as good as it can be makes me try even harder".

AD.

Now how does that sound?

Your friend and fellow rifleman

Don

quote:

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Originally posted by Savage99:
What leaves you open to criticism is the way you express your passion for the best of everything. One thinks of the term "noveau riche" when others do it. Not that I would accuse you of it.

As I suggested before "He who wishes to exert a useful influence must be careful to insult nothing. Let him not be troubled by what seems absurd, but concentrate his energies to the creation of what is good. He must not demolish, but build. He must raise temples where mankind may come and partake of the purest pleasure.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
German dramatist, novelist, poet, & scientist (1749 - 1832) "
Why not try to build up what you like with reasons for your stuffs superiority. I am sure you have many stories.

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Well said Savage.
- mike

ROTFLMAO!!!

I think I understand where Allen Day is coming from here. He's someone who truly appreciates a GOOD rifle and GOOD gunsmithing.

On the other hand, there were some guys where I used to work who thought guns like the Remington 7400 and Remington 710 were the BEST things since sliced bread and poptop beer.

I know what a proper hunting rifle should bring to the table, and few over-the-counter rifles do it. I want to have not just the right tool for the job, but the best tool for the job.

How we define that, and how the hunter interacts with it, are different threads.

Okie John