http://i1004.photobucket.com/a...nchesterbolthead.jpg

Stupid question, is this Winchester M70 bolt head in 223wssm controlled round feeding or controlled push feed?

Controled feed

that's a crf bolt face ...
the cprf looks like this

I almost said "there's no such thing" But I knew better. And now I know a little more.

Never heard of CRPF??

quote:

I almost said "there's no such thing" But I knew better. And now I know a little more.

Never heard of CRPF??

Kerry, My grandfather told me "you never learn anything unless you are unsure or wrong-get used to it". I am used to being wrong, I learn a lot more that way

quote:

Originally posted by impingement:

quote:

I almost said "there's no such thing" But I knew better. And now I know a little more.

Never heard of CRPF??

Kerry, My grandfather told me "you never learn anything unless you are unsure or wrong-get used to it". I am used to being wrong, I learn a lot more that way

Jim If did learn stuff the hard way I'd never remember things.
I've been wrong way more then right But that's how I learn too.

If the cartridge slips up under the extractor when it feeds from the mag, it's a CRF; I don't care what the extractor looks like. "CRPF" is an invented term used to define appearance rather than function and I don't really like it (not that anyone cares what I do or don't like!). Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
If the cartridge slips up under the extractor when it feeds from the mag, it's a CRF; I don't care what the extractor looks like. "CRPF" is an invented term used to define appearance rather than function and I don't really like it (not that anyone cares what I do or don't like!). Regards, Bill

I've been waiting for somebody to define CRPF. May I assume from the above post, as well as the photo above, that CRPF is when a round slips under an extractor that rotates with the bolt head as opposed to a mauser type extractor? 'Cause I agree with Bill that would be CRF, not PF. And it really isn't a combo of the two either, except for in appearance.

Saying a rifle CRPF is kinda like saying a cartridge is RFCF. (Rim Fire, Center Fire...) It's gotta be one or the other.

Or like saying a revolver that can't be thumb cocked is double action only...

One could argue that a CRPF rifle is a rifle that controle the round during the whole cyckle,.
First by a centerfeed magasine until the round is in the chamber, and sorounded by the action, so it has no way to fall out.

Thr whole term of CRF, is objectivly seen just a way of handeling a cartridge from the magasine to the chamber. And there is manny other ways to controle the round, beside the often problematic "mauser style".

Look at the whole bunch of post describing feedingproblems, and ways to solve those problems, related to the Mauser type.
You hardly ever sees post about feedingproblems from a centerfeed magasine.

(for the sake of this discussion)

push feed - no round under extractor during feeding

CRF - round under extractor during feeding..

controlled pushfeed -- can do either without undue manipulation ..
for examples
- MOST ruger m77 original are pushfeeds, as the round can't slip under the extractor during feeding UNTIL the extractor is force over the rim at lockup (remington style boltface with extractor)

Most ruger m77mkII (except some early ones) CAN BE CRF, but can also feed Pushfeed ... through a round in the magwell and close the bolt .. MOST snap right over and work fine.. its the exception that has a blunt extractor.

CRF "only" like a mauser 98 military .. you have to give it the vulcan neck pinch to get the extractor over the rim .. p14 and m19s as well.

blade/claw extractors CAN be setup as either .. the remington+sako extractor for example of generally still a pushfeed .. the winchester crpf CAN work either way .. picks up round and under the extractor OR chunk one in and it closes over.

and, IMNOHO, it doesnt' matter, get what you like

So, by your definition, the pre-64 Model 70 is a CRPF action since it can work either way. The same would be true of the Model 54, the Lee Enfield, and even the 1917 Enfield.
Face it, the whole CRPF tag exists only to try and categorize an appearance rather than a function. I honestly don't know why we get bogged down in this sort of meaningless, quasi-descriptive, nomenclature and I'm sorry to have brought it up. In the scheme of things, it truly does not matter. Regards, Bill

Bill
you are one of the good guys!

I would say that revolvers that can't be cocked manually are double action only, I don't see how that one doesn't make sense, unless i misread what you were trying to say. to my understanding, which may be wrong, single action I cock it, then actuating the trigger does the firing. double action the trigger pulls the hammer back and then releases it.

I know, taking us further off track, but read it and either misunderstood or disagreed.

Red

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
I would say that revolvers that can't be cocked manually are double action only, I don't see how that one doesn't make sense, unless i misread what you were trying to say. to my understanding, which may be wrong, single action I cock it, then actuating the trigger does the firing. double action the trigger pulls the hammer back and then releases it.

I know, taking us further off track, but read it and either misunderstood or disagreed.

Red

I guess it is a matter of semantics. I don't want to take this thread further off track, but consider the evolution of the revolver; first there were single actions, cocked manually and then fired via the trigger. Then came double actions which had two modes of operation: In the first mode they could be cocked manually and fired like a single action. In the second, mode, pulling the trigger provided both cocking and firing functions. Kind of like a semi-auto.

So, a "double action only" revolver really only has a single mode of operation for its action.

I understand this is the commonly accepted term, I just don't happen to like it or agree with the way it is used. But I can't think of a better word to suggest either! ("single action semi-auto revolver"???)

I guess my question is what defines the "double" in double action only?