Thought you all might be interested in some work in progress photos of a martini project. Duane Wiebe is building me a light, compact carrying-around rifle in 7-30 Waters on a Martini cadet action. The action started as a rimfire action, but was converted to centerfire. Duane added the lever safety on the side. The barrel is scrap from another of Duane's projects that I rescued by having Duane cut it back and fit it to the cadet action. The barrel is stainless steel, is octagon to round, has an integral rib, front sight, and swivel base. The rib is milled to accept Warne priemer rings. The barrel will be blacked and the action will be color casehardened.

very sweet looking.

That's gonna be (not that it isn't already!) nice! Keep us posted!

DW doing his "Best", again!

Keith

Very nice.
I have two in 218 Mashburn Bee and love them.

I'm kind of partial to keeping the markings on the sides, but great work nonetheless!

oooooooooooooooo i like dat!!!!!!!!!!

I bought one of those little actions (in the white) at a gunshow in 1979 for $15.00. I later sold it. Boy could I kick myself!

Now that's not something you see everyday - Very Nice!

That's gonna be super nice. Nice to see something besides bolt actions.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
oooooooooooooooo i like dat!!!!!!!!!!

Mebbbbbeee I'll rethink this single shot thing......that's beautiful!

These actions are sort of like "pygmaleon"..you know, trying to transform something unrefined into something acceptable...Truth is, this action has sort of "grown on me" They have their own personality (Just bought two)

Last week, in Texas, I was there when my 7 yr old grandson whacked his first buck..with a 223. (Guess who had the biggest grin?) Anyway, I plan to make up a youth 223? on one of the
Martini's I just purchased.

I'd look forward to any suggestions or ideas for this project..caliber choices? Roger Vardy mentioned the 222 Rimmed...anyone used this?

Can't make a silk purse, but you are coming close Duane. Roger is probably right and brass is available.
Butch

218 Mashburn Bee, Duane!

I've always wanted to do a Martini in a 22 centerfire and the round that always comes to mind is the 225 Winchester. Classic, semi rimmed, available brass, and it can be loaded up or down. Nothing wrong with the 222 Rimmed, but I've heard that brass and/or ammo isn't easy to come by.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:

..caliber choices? Roger Vardy mentioned the 222 Rimmed...anyone used this?

Got to be a 5.6x50R. Brass still available (expensive but 222R has to be formed from it anyhow I think?)

24" barrel and run at non rimmed pressures gives:-

50gr 3,500fps
55gr 3,400fps
60gr 3,300fps

Run at rimmed pressures it should be very nice shooting. Look at the Vihtavuori website for load data and performance. Twist it at 12 to take advantage of heavier bullets.

Really nice round. Used it with a 50gr hornady this morning for a 275yard roe doe in Scotland (legal)

If you want a bit more flexibility there is a CIP approved 6mm variant called the 6x50R Scheiring (google it) which would allow the use of heavier hunting bullets. Hornady 70gr soft points or 85gr speers work very well at the 2,800 - 3,000fps mark.

You mentioned that the stainless barrel will "blacked". What process do you plan to use for this? I've got a couple of stainless barrels that I'd like to use for single shots, but don't know how to get a blue/black finish on them without one of the spray on coatings.
Greg

bob snapp makes an extractor for rimless rounds for the cadet, but they are one bitch to install & get fitted right

Yeah...I think I'd rather go with a rimmed case...re "Blackening stainless" Loud n Boomer wants me to send it to "Falcon Coat" 406 892 2507

quote:

Mebbbbbeee I'll rethink this single shot thing......that's beautiful!

told ya so told ya so told ya so

I know what I will be discussing with Duane at the ACGG Show next month!

Only single shot high performance I've owned was a Thompson TCR in 219 Donaldson Wasp. I found it to be remarkably accurate and very pleasant to shoot. Brass easy to form from 30-30 using RCBS die set. Only time consumer was trimming brass. Neck reaming is a snap. Mild loads were in the 3/8" range which is more than accurate for critter gittin.

I've got a number of those little martini actions, and a few rifles completed, including a 7x30 waters.
I find the 7x30 about as big as can coveniently put into a cadet. I have one in 357 maximum, and had to deepen the trough in the block to get them to drop in and out, just a shade to long. I have a 225 win, but made to use 30-30 brass as it was some sort of 219 zipper imp. It fits quite well. A maximum case done up as a rimmed 25/222 copperhead would make a wonderfull deer/varmint round. All you have to do is grind a shell base down a couple thou to set the shoulder right as a 222 rimmed with maximum brass.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe
I'd look forward to any suggestions or ideas for this project..caliber choices? Roger Vardy mentioned the 222 Rimmed...anyone used this?

I'd have to go with a .218 Mashburn Bee or a .219 Donaldson Wasp or a .22 K-Hornet - they don't name them like those anymore - and any of those will still do the trick!

That 7-30 Waters is really looking good, BTW.

Been there, done that several times, beginning in school at Trinidad in the '60s. I'm not an expert but I know some (G). IMO:

222R has brass issues, either too expensive (5.6x50R) or too inferior (Bertram).

225Win can be a shade too hot in some cases depending upon the smith and the load. IMO the 30-30-size case head is fine for the Cadet but not at 50+K, 45-K is more realistic. BTW I have one Cadet in 219 std Zipper and another in 219 Improved and a 3rd in 224 R-C Maxi as already mentioned.

For a heckuva good combination varminter and deer rifle in a lightweight low-recoil package, it would be hard to beat the 25-35AI loaded to about 45K. Not quite a 250 Savage but close enough.

Bush the striker tip, especially if using SR primers rather than LRs.

1903 Springfield replacement striker springs will replace Cadet mainsprings when shortened and the ends ground slightly smaller. Apparently the bending action at the ends results in a slightly larger dia at that point.

I have heard that factory 223s tend to stick in Cadet chambers due to lack of primary extraction; I can attest that std Zippers will sometimes stick but the Improved will not, see Frank de Haas' article on the Zipper family.

I like Cadets and want another Francotte action.
Regards, Joe

Great Zot....lots of good ideas...I have to narrow the choice...at 7 yrs, my grandson is not an accomplished re loader...so...kinda need to stick with something that can be purchased off the shelf. Spoke to Bob Snapp today and will order one of his 223 extractors and "ponder"

By the way, the wood is pretty darn soft, so am trying the cyanoacrylate treament that Paul Dressel speaks of so highly

Duane

What about a 218 Bee. Plenty of factory ammo and brass. Mild recoil and very accurate.
Altho it might be a little light for deer.

James

J Bennet...not a bad idea...I'll give it some thought..thanks Duane

It has been brought up on this forum several times, but melonite or QPQ is a great way to color stainless on guns. It is actually a surface treatment and not just a coating.

It can actually extend the life of barrels. I was skeptical about that, but Our Resident Metal Guru (Mete) tells me it be true. I trust his word and plan on having all future
stainless guns QPQ'd.


Here are some examples:

Coal Creek

Drake's

No one mentioned it so I'll throw in 25-20 and 6X47 if you're getting a 223 extractor. Over the counter loads aren't available, but that 6x47 would be a sweetie.

I've got one in 17 Ackley Bee I build quite a few years ago for a fox gun and always wanted to build one in a little larger caliber.

my cadet in 222 has no extraction problem, but i also load it a bit on the soft side. my favorite caliber is 218 mashburn bee. the bee case fits the rifles size like a glove and the mashburn is a relatively hot round. i have one in hornet that still used an old 222 barrel, but that was fairly common back when, and works just fine with 223 bullets. my 17 ackley is fun but very fussy on loads. i like my 256 one, but finding brass today is a real headache and its kinda tough to make. the other thing that is really nice to do is to drill the breechblock for a cleaning rod. bushing the firing pin hole is also usually necessary

quote:

It has been brought up on this forum several times, but melonite or QPQ is a great way to color stainless on guns. It is actually a surface treatment and not just a coating.

Mark, tell me more about this finish and who does it.

Dave

5.6x50R

quote:

Originally posted by loud-n-boomer:

Mark, tell me more about this finish and who does it.

Dave

Oooh, I am not the one to ask for experience with it. Mete and I PM'd about it and he said the wear resistance claims are true. I was doubting them necause the claims were lofty, and that set of alarms with me. He said they are mostly true.

The stuff really is wear and corrosion resistant, maybe the the extent that it is the very best of both of those traits available today. It is supposed to be great for concealed carry and any other gun exposed to salt air, sweat, etc.

Butch Lambert has posted about a benchrest barrel of his that had something 3.5-4 the normal barrel life. I would try to searc and find his first hand experience-=it will be alot better than my memory!

Drakes in the post above no longer does the QPQ finishes, and I have heard bad things about Coal Creek not being able to put P7's back together and not being thruthful with the clients.

Oh, I should say that these guys just send the parts off to someone who actually does the treatment. It is supposed to be a big operation required to do it and small shops cannot do it in house. If it is a gun that you can disamble and get it back together, that I would try to send the parts to the actual QOQ company your self. Will cut out the middle man and I am sure save you some money.

Oh,, did you check out Drake's site? He has a number of pics that give you close-ups of the treated metal

Hi,
I think this would be interesting in case someone choose a rimless cartridge.
Found it in Internet.


Thanks
Martin

I've got a Cadet in the .218 Bee, and I love it. I'll send someone a photo if they will post it (too challenged to post myself).
Walt

Looking at the QPQ, I am going to stick to the Falconcoat since I don't want to experiment on this rifle.

BUCKMT, e-mail the photos to me at rnnhntr at wildblue dot net and I will post them for you.

Dave

LNB, photos on the way.
Thanks
Walt

Posted for BUCKMT

Here's the bee, and a feathercrotch piece I've been thinking about using for the butt stock when I restock it.

Walt

Great stuff Duane!
How about a 22 Savage High Power?
Norma makes brass.
http://www.grafs.com/metallic/652

Hornady makes bullets
http://www.grafs.com/product/188730

quote:

By the way, the wood is pretty darn soft, so am trying the cyanoacrylate treament that Paul Dressel speaks of so highly

Duane

Can you refer me to more info. on this treatment? I have a nice English blank that is pretty soft, too

Thanks, Ken