A sales guy in a store told me yesterday a jeweled bolt is smoother and functions better as a result. Is that true? I'd figured it was just cosmetic.

1st clue, "sales guy in a gun shop told me....."

That's why I figured I would ask somebody else. Sometimes things are true for reasons other than what people assume.

jeweling is polishing - spot polishing, but polishing none the less.

it ensures the entire bolt is polished, as the pattern makes it obvious, as well as the wear

i think it is attractive, and would be just as functional if just smoothly polished ...

The surface holds oil better for less rust.

quote:

he surface holds oil better for less rust.

Other than for looks that it holds oil better was the plus I've always "heard". Never seen actually testing etc.

Generally jeweling does feel smoother and glides with a little less resistance. But it quickly wears off the impact points, looks like hell and feels just like it would if it was unturned. The broken and uneven surface does hold oil better, just like a bead blast or a rough polish does. It does look nice, if that your thing, but it never lasts long.

It looks nice with a thick high gloss wood deep shiny blue and white spacers

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Originally posted by ted thorn:
It looks nice with a thick high gloss wood deep shiny blue and white spacers

And black and white pearl, double diamond inlays. Don't forget black and white pearl, double diamond inlays. Ted ! ! ! !

Actually, I have seen the entire insides of some double rifle locks that were jeweled in 1/10th engine turning and then rhodium plated. They actually looked diamond encrusted. Those things looked like something that Rolex or Breitling might have done on their days off and despite the age, they had narry a spec of rust. Mind you, no one but the gunsmith that pulled it apart for cleaning ever saw it.

Someone posted here years back that nothing says trailer trash, like a jeweled bolt. LMAO, I thought, he's right. It's flash with no real purpose.

Guess nothing says tacky like a Griffin & Howe.

The sworls tend to hold oil. Oil means slicker travel
Aloha, Mark

It's about the same effect as fluted barrels.

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It's about the same effect as fluted barrels.

Bolt jeweling used to be an almost essential part of a custom rifle build. Like checkering, it is a tedious task (requiring somewhat less skill IMO) but the results are gratifying. I have seen a lot of jeweled bolts on rifles by well respected classic makers. I like the appearance and when the texture is right, smoothness seems to be enhanced. A much classier embellishment than fluting a bolt IMO. Regards, Bill

I still get call for it Billy but I seldom do it after customers hear the price. It used to be that every custom gun and a lot of factory stuff was jeweled on the bolt and sometimes in the bolt ways as well back in the 60s. I think those silly slavery and child labor laws may have had something to do with it's demise.

LOL

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Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
It's about the same effect as fluted barrels.

The fluting of a rifles barrel can be considered cosmetic, however that is not its purpose. A barrel is merely a tube with an inner diameter and an outer diameter, and like all tubing can flex longitudinally. The purpose of fluting is to cut a series of grooves that actually add a resistance to that longitudinal flexing of the barrel, thus changing barrel harmonics and improving accuracy. So the fluting of barrels is not merely a cosmetic feature. I would imagine as a 'smith you would understand that.

And as for the original question, jeweling (or engine turning) of the bolt is cosmetic, yet it does retain oil a little better.

Fluting a barrel only accomplishes two things

Reduction of weight....A thinner barrel does this better but you lose stiffness in the thinner tube

You can "go up" a notch in contour and then flute to get a tube that weighs similar to the next step down

Looks good to those who like it

The "adds stiffness" is a myth that I have put to test myself with a bench vise, a tape measure and a 50 lb fish sale

Fluting adds nothing

It would be nice to hear from an old English actioner as to why they bothered to jewel the inside of "best" actions. Maybe there is a little less friction ? or maybe it's because it holds sperm whale oil better ?

There must have been some reason other than bling that they did the locks on this Wesley Richards drop lock.



The locks on the Zoli are nitrided for rust and wear resistance

It is for lube holding ability

On all the moving parts of our molds that are not gas nitride pins we cut or grind grease grooves to hold lube and allow trash a place to settle rather than gaul up

Many years ago "1986" when I was a very young apprentice an older EDM opperator had this ultra cool oak Gershwin tool chest....green felt lined with many hand made tools that all had been jeweled

All for show in his case though as it wears off with use in a shop environment but man oh man did it ever look sharp

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

The "adds stiffness" is a myth that I have put to test myself with a bench vise, a tape measure and a 50 lb fish sale

Fluting adds nothing

Cutting 1/4 inch flutes a 1 inch barrel actually reduces stiffness because you are removing material which contributes to stiffness. Fluting a barrel only adds stiffness if you take a 1 inch diameter tube and add 1/4 inch flutes to either side to make a 1-1/2 inch barrel. You have added material which adds stiffness and you have altered it geometrically which adds stiffness because of the larger diameter.

If you want to take advantage of fluting you have to consider what the finished weight will be, what the minimum barrel length must be and then incorporate flutes into the design to displace material so that the barrel comes out to weight and length while using the flutes to give you the largest diameter of barrel that you can geometrically design. Then you have a purpose for fluting.

Just running deep scratches down the side of your barrel accomplishes nothing. It may cool quicker to an engineer, but to a hunter or bench rest shooter it offers nothing real and because you have removed material you actually make the barrel less stiff. All it really does is look cool and stiff.

I met this guy at a rifle shoot in Ohio several years ago. All of his barrels were fluted. He said they shot more accurately after they were fluted. His name was Tony Boyer.

Only way I can see a fluted barrel "adds stiffness" is when it is compared to a barrel of the same weight. Adding flues allows you to start with a larger dia barrel cut some flutes then have a barrel weight equal to a smaller taper.

Does it actually make it stiffer? Don't have a clue. I do "recall" that was how it was originally explained. Kind of like the original 400 Whelen. Details got lost in the numerous times the story was retold.

So, I guess then if adding metal helps in stability an integral rib must help in theory.?

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Only way I can see a fluted barrel "adds stiffness" is when it is compared to a barrel of the same weight. Adding flues allows you to start with a larger dia barrel cut some flutes then have a barrel weight equal to a smaller taper.

In theory it does make sense. In my mind it is similar to the use of I-beams in buildings.

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Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Only way I can see a fluted barrel "adds stiffness" is when it is compared to a barrel of the same weight. Adding flues allows you to start with a larger dia barrel cut some flutes then have a barrel weight equal to a smaller taper.

In theory it does make sense. In my mind it is similar to the use of I-beams in buildings.

In theory, if one added another I beam, in between each of the I beams, would it not get stiffer yet?

Also, If memory serves, Ruark died at age 49 of liver sclerosis. Obviously brought on by too many gin & tonics and prescription opioids, which were used to temper too many aggravating delays which were cause by waiting for too many Jeeps to be dug out of pigholes while on safari with Selby.

LMAO ROFF

The "benefits" of barrel fluting bring to mind the same of cryo-treating and moly coating.

This is all way above my pay grade.

A very well executed fine pattern jewelling if find quite ok.
much preferably with the spot swirls having a more reserved slight satin appearance, rather than the more blingy highly polished.

None the less I've seen some rather superbly executed jewelling on bolts that brought the metal up quite bright,
Yet i remained rather impressed regarding the actual quality of the finished job.

a bolt looking something like this is acceptable to me;

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-g4xQ..._8CY/s1600/AA039.JPG

These days id likely skip the idea of putting it on the bolt and instead just have the follower jewelled.

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Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ramrod340:
Only way I can see a fluted barrel "adds stiffness" is when it is compared to a barrel of the same weight. Adding flues allows you to start with a larger dia barrel cut some flutes then have a barrel weight equal to a smaller taper.

In theory it does make sense. In my mind it is similar to the use of I-beams in buildings.

In theory, if one added another I beam, in between each of the I beams, would it not get stiffer yet?

And that is exactly the theory. A bundle of "I" beams is much stronger than a tube by itself.

Regarding the fish scale and all, there is a vast difference between grabbing a barrel in a vise and pulling on it with a fish scale and the bullet traveling down the barrel. The flutes do lend structural rigidity to the barrel. That is simple physics and proven on countless mechanical structures. If some of you want to dis-believe that, that is your right, but you are incorrect mathematically speaking.

If one had two identical dimension plain tube barrels,
and one then fluted one, but left the other unaltered,
the unaltered barrel would be more flex resistant.

- a solid form can only be stiffer than the same form which has then been skeletonised/fluted.

Uhhh.. How about this theory.. I know it's old and out of date.. But here goes..

How about pride in CRAFTSMANSHIP..

Much as the same of the old school toolmaker and his oak box..

I think plain bolts look...well...plain. But then again, I am the guy that thinks ebony forend tips are also boring and without imagination. Although Jim Kobe's widows peak looks very nice, indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by MopaneMike:
Uhhh.. How about this theory.. I know it's old and out of date.. But here goes..

How about pride in CRAFTSMANSHIP..

In the world of premier traditional mechanical calibre watch making, the machined finish is far from dead.
The horology industry continue to take extreme pride in their level of detailed finish-craftmanship.

MY favourite brand & model,.. Patek 5085.

...On the surface its just an everyday use polished stainless case:

http://www.ewristwatch.net/07/patek5085sample.jpg

closer detail of the 240 calibre with 22-carat rotor:

http://www.hautetime.com/wp-co...2013/11/240_img3.jpg

HQ jewelling is not a waste of time or money, if the owner appreciates having it on his bespoke rifle
or bespoke watch.

Modern magnum mauser with jewelling.

Personally, I think a jeweled bolt looks nice, although I think only 2-3 of my rifles have it (and only one of the high end ones...)

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It's about the same effect as fluted barrels.

Oh Toomany Tools, you beat me to the punch on that one lol!

I was gonna say it, but I thought I'd better not do any shit ing

quote:

Originally posted by DocEd:
1st clue, "sales guy in a gun shop told me....."

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
If one had two identical dimension plain tube barrels,
and one then fluted one, but left the other unaltered,
the unaltered barrel would be more flex resistant.

- a solid form can only be stiffer than the same form which has then been skeletonised.

And where did you receive you're engineering degree? I don't have one myself, but I agree with those that do.

Edit 4/29/15

And apparently I was mis-informed and incorrect. My apologies.

http://www.snipercountry.com/a...itsbarrelfluting.asp

I always thought that the purpose of a fluted barrel was to increase the surface area which in turn would allow the barrel to theoretically cool faster.

Might cool faster but with less mass it will heat faster

btw.....two identical tubes....same o-d....same i-d....same length
....same material

cut flutes is one not the other

topic of discussion today with the engineering department

Flutes change harmonics.....yes

Flutes make tube stiffer....no