My Kirkwood Bros. 1903 Springfield Sporter made in Boston circa 1915 has a silver trapdoor grip cap attached with brass screws. I have always speculated that it was made of silver because it had held a compass. I’ve looked but never seem to locate what I feel is the proper compass for this rifle. The hole is .720†in diameter but a compass smaller would work fine I could turn out a brass bushing and it would look right. I realize that this is not something easy to find but was working taking some pictures so thought I would ask. I’m not in a rush; I’ve had this rifle for years and plan to keep it for a little while longer. I check Ebay from time to time but seem most of the right size ones are modern made of plastic. Any Ideas?

Mike

how about throwing an e.mail to these folks.

http://www.kitefarm.com/compass_museum.htm

Rich

What about the compass Randall uses in their knives? It doesn't show up in the website, but it is in the catalog. They might sell you one, or at least tell you who they get them from.

http://www.randallknives.com/index.php

Michael,
I have a Railroad Compass made by K&E that was used by Admiral Perry on his trip to the North Pole. I also have a hand written letter on National Geographic stationary from him thanking the Northern Pacific RR for the use of the compass. However it is a bit big to fit in that hole. I imagine it would be totally inappropriate to try to find some kind of tiny GPS unit that would start up when you opened it and flashed coordinates. Okay slap me hard, I deserve it. BTW, that is one gorgeous rifle.

The following products maybe sort of what you are looking:

Explora Button Compass. Oil filled, robust military approved compass. Size approx 20mm diameter, weight 3mm. Price £5.99. Product No. 70043.

Brass Button Compass. NATO survival compass. Dimensions 5mm thick by 15mm diameter. Weighs 3 grams. Price £29.99. Small enough to be bodily hidden.....Product No. 37854.

The above info is a paraphrase of the catalogue listing.

They are obtainable from:

Silvermans Ltd.
2 Hartford Street
Mile End
London
E1 4PS

FAX 044 207 77 910 008

www.silvermans.co.uk

5/8" button compass, looks period

http://cgi.ebay.com/CLOCK-COMPASS-3-Buttons-Clockface-W....l1247QQcmdZViewItem

Sounds like a Marble's brand compass out of Gladstone Michigan. Search Marble's on ebay, even on the completed auctions and see what you come up with.

I was thinking this was a poor attempt for an excuse to show us another one of your beautiful rifles, either way, I'm ok with it!

maybe the reason it's missing is the original owner shot himself in the foot trying to check his bearings while looking into the grip cap.

outta here>>>>>> *POOF*

Thanks for all the leads, I should be able to find something that will work.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Michael,
I have a Railroad Compass made by K&E that was used by Admiral Perry on his trip to the North Pole. I also have a hand written letter on National Geographic stationary from him thanking the Northern Pacific RR for the use of the compass. However it is a bit big to fit in that hole. I imagine it would be totally inappropriate to try to find some kind of tiny GPS unit that would start up when you opened it and flashed coordinates. Okay slap me hard, I deserve it. BTW, that is one gorgeous rifle.

Very Interesting, could you post a picture of your compass. I like the older compasses and have a few different ones.

Just wondering, could that have been a trap to hold an insert for that rear sight?

quote:

Just wondering, could that have been a trap to hold an insert for that rear sight?

those particular sights aren't threaded for inserts, there is a flip up aperture that rests inside the eyepiece; flipping it down and out gives the option of two aperture sizes.

in Mike's photos, the smaller aperture is "out"- you see it, horizontal at the bottom front of the eyepiece.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnD:
Just wondering, could that have been a trap to hold an insert for that rear sight?

Most of the trapdoor grip caps I've seen are made of steel and have a strong spring for storing little things like a extra front sight.

This one is made of Silver and the lid is held closed by friction. I don't believe it's made to hold anything but act a lid for something mounted in the hole. Because of the silver and brass the only thing that I could think of was a compass.

Now I see the second aperture. Very neat. Thanks.

I have a couple of the small compasses left that I used for knife handles. I'll measure one of them.
Somehow I get the feeling that the grip cap wasn't used for a compass????

Don

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
I have a couple of the small compasses left that I used for knife handles. I'll measure one of them.
Somehow I get the feeling that the grip cap wasn't used for a compass????

Don

Don, Great let me know what you find.

What do you think was originally under there and why did they use silver?

Michael,
As you can see, it is not exactly dainty. It is called a compass but in essence, it is a transit.

Chic,
I just luv stuff like that! Useless to me, but it sure is nice t

Chic,

Thanks for the pictures, I really like things like that, beautifully made with history.

I have doubts that a compass would read correctly, that close to the action steel. But maybe it was removeable for actual readings. Hence the present absence of the device. You could test it with any size compass, just hold it against the cap, and see if it follows the rifle, or follows North. Small can of oil/grease, maybe?? Oh,yeah, grease for dipping those nickle plate FMJ bullets, from the 1900's.

quote:

Originally posted by xs headspace:
I have doubts that a compass would read correctly, that close to the action steel. But maybe it was removeable for actual readings. Hence the present absence of the device. You could test it with any size compass, just hold it against the cap, and see if it follows the rifle, or follows North. Small can of oil/grease, maybe?? Oh,yeah, grease for dipping those nickle plate FMJ bullets, from the 1900's.

Back when I was trying to figure out what went into the hole I tried several compasses and they all worked just fine.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I found one installed it and it works fine.

That is very cool, Michael!

Michael,

That looks excellent, and far better than the small ones I have. That one was made for your rifle!!

Don

Michael,

Any reason for the orientation of the compass? Would having the indicator pointing towards the muzzle help setting a course? Or is the compass loose enough in the holder to drop out for use?

quote:

Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
Michael,

Any reason for the orientation of the compass? Would having the indicator pointing towards the muzzle help setting a course? Or is the compass loose enough in the holder to drop out for use?

The only orientation is the arrow pointing north, the whole thing rotates. The door can just stay closed and any weight on it would open it so the compass is now attached to the rife and is not removable. Holding the rifle so the compass is level and turning in a circle the arrow stays pointed North. Never thought I would be happy about a compass in the stock of a custom sporter, who knew ;-).

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
Michael,

That looks excellent, and far better than the small ones I have. That one was made for your rifle!!

Don

Thanks,
The older glass and brass compass in setting in a brass bushing I made, I then aged the bushing a little so it would not be "New" looking. If I had wanted to really get carried away with this project I would have had the degrees of the compass engraved on the ring.

The Poly Choke company sold a small compass and the tool to install then. It was a pointed counter bore which would have made the hole in the wood which shows up in the picture.

quote:

Originally posted by LesBrooks:
The Poly Choke company sold a small compass and the tool to install then. It was a pointed counter bore which would have made the hole in the wood which shows up in the picture.

If you ever see one of them please let me know I'd like to check it out.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Petrov:

quote:

Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
Michael,

Any reason for the orientation of the compass? Would having the indicator pointing towards the muzzle help setting a course? Or is the compass loose enough in the holder to drop out for use?

The only orientation is the arrow pointing north, the whole thing rotates. The door can just stay closed and any weight on it would open it so the compass is now attached to the rife and is not removable. Holding the rifle so the compass is level and turning in a circle the arrow stays pointed North. Never thought I would be happy about a compass in the stock of a custom sporter, who knew ;-).

OK, got it. I was thinking the card rotated and the arrow was fixed. Glad you got it all back together, looks great.

That is a beautiful rifle and your photography is amazing.

I’ve had a couple questions about Kirkwood rifles and if I knew where others were. They a very hard to find and because the marking cannot be see unless the rifle is out of the stock many are not identified. Here are a couple pictures of another Kirkwood rifle with a Rigby style bolt peep sight by Niedner when located in Malden, Mass. Please pardon the purple, it was back when I was experimenting.

Mike, nice looking rifle and the compass looks cool as well. But I do have to ask, why didn't you install it where North-South ran in line with the bore?

Wouldn't the recoil destroy the compass over time?

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
Mike, nice looking rifle and the compass looks cool as well. But I do have to ask, why didn't you install it where North-South ran in line with the bore?

The whole compass rotates, if the muzzle is pointed North then the arrow would point forward.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Wouldn't the recoil destroy the compass over time?

I don't have an answer for that but I have seen several rifles with a compass inletted into the stock that still seem to work. Maybe that is what happened to the original one.

A very classy job on a fine rifle Michael!

Mike-

I was just pulling your chain about where the floating needle was pointing. Didn't expect you to take it seriously.