Hello everyone--looking for a hand here...

In your opionion, what's a pre-64 Model 70 in .270 worth? I came across one at the local sporting goods store.

The stock is in good shape and appears to be original. It does have a bit of a "heavy" lacquer coating (some of which was spilled-over onto the metal buttplate, forming a little "drop" of yellowed resin).

The action itself had two small (1/16th) screw-holes on the left rear. These are filled with screws that are flush with the action. The serial number on the bolt matches the action itself, and the bolt face apprears to be in good shape.

It wears a 4x Leopold, in good shape, on Leopold rings and bases, which also appear good.

The bolt functions smoothly. I did not look down the bore when I had the bolt out. The barrel looks to have about 98% bluing, but the floor-plate has lost most of its bluing.

Overall, the metalwork seems to be in excellent shape.

If I were serious about the rifle, is it kosher to ask it be removed from the stock so as to inspect for rust/wear/bedding issues?

And, oh, they want something like $970 for it.

Thanks,

friar

That price seems about $200 bucks high.

Pre 64's in post war production are really three series, minor modifications differences between year of production. I will pay a little more to get the right years on these, not a lot but I like 1948-1952 model 70's the best and I will pay a little more for these than I will for post 1953 models. The Blue book gives nothing for these years, the real driving factor in M70 is what was the original chambering in, certain cartridges like a 300 H&H, 375 H&H, and 7x57 command higher prices due to limited numbers they were manufactured in. 270 and 30-06 were just about the most common chambering so there is no plus up for this.

From your description the rifle is a 70% rifle or there abouts, stock issues, bottom metal, and blueing gone on the barrel.

Scope just complicates the transaction, if you like the rings and bases its a bonus, and really doesn't add much value.

Without the scope I figure $550.00

ray says he can get pre-64 magnum boltface actions for under 400, you might email him on that

jeffe

quote:

And, oh, they want something like $970 for it.

It's out of line....I can find them here for 7-800

Sounds as if it is a pretty normal "standard-weight" pre-'64 M-70 sporter from the description you gave. The holes on the rear of the action sound like the standard, factory-tapped 6-48 holes for mounting a receiver sight.

I personally always try to find an older Stith "Streamline" mount to put on mine IF the action isn't one that is also tapped front and rear for newer conventional scope mount bases, or if I want to use one of the contremporary scopes of the period. The "Streamline" mount used the holes on the left rear of the receiver ring for mounting the rear base/ring.

Anyway, I believe the price on the rifle you are looking at is at least $350 too high. Around here at the gun shows, which aren't the cheapest place to buy ANY rifle, you can usually find a pre-'64 standard rifle without scope for $500-$800, depending on chambering, condition, and vintage.

So, look at it as if all you wanted to buy is the used scope and mount. Decide what the scope and mount are worth to you, as is. Then deduct that value (to you) for a used scope and mount from the asking price.

Based on your description, if the price was still over about $550 after deducting the value of the scope and mount, I'd definitely pass. And, I love M70's, so that pass would not be because I don't care about the rifle....

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the input.

Schromf, my guess is that it's a later 50's early 60's example.

Are you suggesting that the action alone is worth "x" amount?

Jeffe, do you mean "Ray Atkinson?" In which case I migh build a rifle?

Vapo, I should give you a ring next time I'm down to Nebraska...both my wife and I are from there and get back (to the eastern side) at least every year.

Again, thanks to everybody!

friar

friarmeier,

Although Ray A and I aren't quite agreeing on this I figure a good solid pre 64 Model 70 action is worth $500. Ray says he can find them for $400, I can't.

That is assuming it is clean: no extra holes, no damage of any kind. I don't get to worked up on bottom metal as a couple of dings don't matter when I am figuring on tossing it into my parts bin anyway, but I usually buy actions with steel bottom metal as the later model aluminum plates were crappy in my mind.

What's it worth to you?

friarmeier-
I would not pay more than $550.00 for what you've described. A good specimin in 84%+ should fetch between $500 and $750 depending on condition, not more unless it's 98% or NIB. The action alone will fetch $400.00 so long as it isn't drilled full of holes (ie a side mount). Price seems to vary somewhat by region and why this is so with the internet escapes me.

270 and 30-06 was something like 60% of total production in the pre-64 model 70, thus they do not command the premiums other calibres do. I can tell you this, if you find a 7X57 or 300 Savage in a pre-64, chances are good it's a fake. I haven't seen one in eons.

No standard actions for $400 and open the bolt face...or mag action for $550. that should be what I said.

quote:

No standard actions for $400 and open the bolt face...or mag action for $550. that should be what I said.

Ray,

Understood, but I still can't find a standard action that cheap. You have better sources than I do, cheapest I have run across them in the last year or so was $450, and fifty bucks higher seems to be the going price, with as you stated a premium for the magnum actions.

I must admit I don't usually look at later prodcution 1959 to EOL, as I like the 49-52 models the best.

Friar,
I find good rifles in similar shape here often for around $550 to $600 . I do not agree the the 4x Leupold adds nothing to the sale. You can peddle them anyday on ebay or at a gun show for $125 to $150 and bases and rings are worth $35 or so. I would conservatively put the price around $700 with the scope and bases and $600 for the rifle alone.

Here are some completed sales for 4X Leupolds on ebay.

Well fofriarmeier forget buying the gun! You are buying the parts. The scope is worth $150.00 Canadian .... you do the math and the action is worth $350.00 to $400.00 Canadian. The colectability of pre 64 70s has kind of fallen off over the years. Sure a 458 in a super grade is worth a lot but a buzzaed grade 270 is just anouther pre 64 action that some clown wants to make into a custom gun. In my opinion its not even a good action to work from but who can argue with years of tradition and Jack O'Conner. Rod Henrickson

quote:

In my opinion its not even a good action to work from

Really???? A lot of very successful custom gunmakers and rifleman would disagree with you. I do not know of any who would agree with you. But then what is the saying about opinions and assholes?

SPEERCHUCKER 30X378 From one NEW MEMBER to another i would tread very lightly talking negatively about pre-64s from now on you will probably be known on here--rightly or wrongly as that idiot knocking pre-64s. by the way most of mine are pre-64s and in my ignorance i always thought they worked and shot just great--still do

A good pre-64 actioned rifle either regular or custom will usually sell far faster than even a Mauser actioned rifle. Its provinance is already known. All of the other action types except the exotics would be considered ,in the main, a lot less desuirable. I have numerous customs and none are of other than mauser or Pre-64 model 70 Winchester actions. Rarely will guild members choose sako, remington, ruger, or savage actions to spend time and money on. In years past, some classic custom rifles were made on left hand remington actions as they were the only ones available easily to the trade. Others would convert Winchester and Mauser actions to work lefty.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:

quote:

In my opinion its not even a good action to work from

Really???? A lot of very successful custom gunmakers and rifleman would disagree with you. I do not know of any who would agree with you. But then what is the saying about opinions and assholes?

Chic, that was kind of harsh!

D99,
You obviously dont know the saying. "Opinins are like assholes, everyone has one." It goes on to say that some often smell more than others. But that can go both ways.

Or was it the disagreeing with him that you felt was harsh. I have seen very little he has posted that I would agree with, but then maybe I am wrong.

BTW, I enjoyed your photo album. If I ever go back to Africa, it will be to Namibia.

Over the years I have probably built 40 guns for customers on the pre 64 model 70. As with the Mausers I dislike the idea of not being able to toss in a round and chamber and shoot. Here in Alberta it is against the law to have ammunition in the magazine of a gun while the gun is in a motor vehicle and I hate clips its just another thing to loose and I’ve never shot out a 4 shot mag in my life so why have a clip? See coyote! Hit brakes. Cross fence. Toss cartridge in. Shoot coyote. Simple math and all very legal so long as its crown land or you have permission. Claw extractors are not for that game! No pre 64 70s!
I’m a calm hunter. I tend to identify my target. Start a round in the chamber just before earshot. Then I try to get closer then I try to get closer! I try not to shoot anything that’s less than 10 yards from me. If I can get 10 yards from an animal it means the animal is far stupider than me and hence not sporting. But when I get as close as I can, I close the bolt. Take aim and we go from there. BUT !!!! and I stress BUT!!!! Some guns do not have hinged floor plates or clips so you have to cycle the shells to remove them from the action. I never close the bolt when I do this. But I still put the safety on. I work with guns all day and old habits die hard. Besides, its common sense. So why have a safe that locks the bolt? Do you walk around with a loaded gun? (One in the chamber not mag) Tell me where you hunt and I will stay far away!
On top of that the claw extractor was made for the not so calm hunter. Well it was really a military thing. Joe grunt would be in his fox hole with his rifle. And some yahoo would fire a shot at him. Joe would get so freaked out that he would push his bolt forward and toss a round into the chamber but not close the bolt so it wouldn’t hook the cartridge. Then he would work the bolt again and have one shell in the chamber and one trying to get in. Joe was out of commission and the enemy overran them and took over the coffee shop. With controlled round feed that cant happen. The first round is caught by the extractor so it gets cast out if you pull the bolt back. Coffee shop is safe! But I’m not a soldier and deer don’t carry guns. Also, I don’t hunt with folk that unload their guns at deer without firing a shot so what good is controlled round feed? Road hunting aside I would like to have the option of being able to toss one more round in and getting one last shot at that 180 white tail that’s cresting the hill. On top of that the thing was made of steel that was made in the 50s and the first person that tells me that the old steel was better than the steel of this day will win a free ticket to Bellview. Mental Hospital. To cap it they were made on single stage machines and no 2 parts are really in line with the next! There are lots of current improved mausers out there with the bugs removed. But its your choice and its your money A 57 chevy is a classic and a 2005 chevy corvette is a rocket! Young minds fresh ideas. Take your pick: ;o) Rod Henrickson

I have a couple of pre64s and a custom mauser. In all three rifles the extractor will slip over the rim. The mauser had some work done to it, but the pre64s have had none (as far as I am aware. The rifles are older than I am).

Now a sample of three is pretty small, granted. But others I know of can also chamber a round without being magazine fed in their pre64s. Even if they couldn't a bit of beveling would allow it, I believe.

What am I missing?

-Steve

It is a simple process to make a CRF so it slips over a cartridge that is dropped in the magazine. I don't know of any gunsmiths that do not know how to do it but road hunting has never been a reason for doing it. To each his own. I get out and walk. And I do hunt with the gun loaded and the safety on. So do the people I hunt with and I do not consider it safe nor do the folks that teach gun safety. Safe gun handling starts in your head.

Locking a bolt is desireable with the safety on. If this is such a bad safety on the model 70, I wonder why it is the most copied safety ever. It has been put on everything including Remingtons.

So you go roadhunting and I will pack my gun loaded with the safety on. BTW, I hunt in November in the Middle Fork of the Salmon. No roads in there so you won't be around anyway. We both will be happy.

Steve, most model 70's will not allow the bolt to close on a chambered round. There is a simple trick that will allow you to do it. As you push the bolt down, apply pressure on the back half of the extractor and it will bend in and the front will slip over the round. It is an old trick with CRF actions.

Well sure Steve grind the extractor away and half the time its no longer controlled round feed but a push feed because it no longer hooks the rim as the case comes up. On top of that the outside of the extractor will no longer touch the inside of the action so it can now cam over the rim. You have just created one of the weakest extractors known to man. You just made a poor mans M77 Ruger. but Bill Ruger beefed up the extractor. It didn’t help much thought. The post 64 70, Remington 700 and Savage 110 extractor don’t fail! They just ripped the rim off the fucking case. Those actions don’t have to make friends! People are in line to get them and by the way I hate the Savage 110's too! Its cheep and its ugly. There are no stupid questions .... just stupid people! : Rod Henrickson

Thanks everyone for the thoughts! I thought the thread was dead...boy, was I ever wrong!

The gun I originally described sold quickly--someone bought it within 4 or 5 days, and I'm pretty sure they paid close to the asking price.

Well, when I get the itch for a good pre-64, I'll give some of you a hollar.

Many thanks,

friar

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
Well sure Steve grind the extractor away and half the time its no longer controlled round feed but a push feed because it no longer hooks the rim as the case comes up. On top of that the outside of the extractor will no longer touch the inside of the action so it can now cam over the rim. You have just created one of the weakest extractors known to man. You just made a poor mans M77 Ruger. but Bill Ruger beefed up the extractor. It didn’t help much thought. The post 64 70, Remington 700 and Savage 110 extractor don’t fail! They just ripped the rim off the fucking case. Those actions don’t have to make friends! People are in line to get them and by the way I hate the Savage 110's too! Its cheep and its ugly. There are no stupid questions .... just stupid people! : Rod Henrickson

Even more ...

All four of my controlled feed rifles (including a Ruger RSM in 458 Lott) all feed from the magazine, controlled. Just like they were designed to do. All the extractors snap over the rim when I need to have the magazine full and one up the spout.

Now, I don't know why you've decided to insult me, simply because I pointed out the way my rifles function. Kind of unseemly to come to the forum with 15 posts and start throwing around profanities and derogatory comments.

You've just made my ignore list...

Ciao,

-Steve

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
The scope is worth $150.00 Canadian .... you do the math and the action is worth $350.00 to $400.00 Canadian.

let me know when you have a batch of $150 leupold 4x's and $350 pre-64's

I'll come up to edmonton and pick them all up