Round count zero
Wouldn't extract, got a Sako extractor
Now the bolt handle came off in my hand
Round count still zero.
Can you bolt the handle back on?
How much of a mess will re soldering the handle make to the finish of the bolt/handle?

Thanks!

'That's a bummer, man.'
No chance of warranty, written or statutory? I guess they would hide behind your changing the extractor, not that that should excuse the handle coming off.

They are not soldered on they are brazed on.

I had the same thing happen years ago while cycling an empty rifle. It soured me on the Remington bolt design permanently. Post-64 Model 70 Winchesters have brazed on bolt handles as well, but I never heard of one coming off.

I have been in a couple of tight situations in Africa where losing a bolt handle would more than an inconvenience.

I have owned some Remington based target rifles over the years, but I have never heard of anyone being bitten, butted or trampled by an angry target.

Send it to Dan Armstrong

www.accutig.com

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
I had the same thing happen years ago while cycling an empty rifle. It soured me on the Remington bolt design permanently. Post-64 Model 70 Winchesters have brazed on bolt handles as well, but I never heard of one coming off.

I have been in a couple of tight situations in Africa where losing a bolt handle would more than an inconvenience.

I have owned some Remington based target rifles over the years, but I have never heard of anyone being bitten, butted or trampled by an angry target.

If I remember right, the Winchester is a sleeve that fits over the rear of the bolt then brazed. Darcy Echols pins them on his Legends

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
They are not soldered on they are brazed on.

That is another word for solder. There are probably a thousand different solder alloys with various properties and melting temperatures.

OP: You could probably fix this yourself, but the trick is positioning the handle properly while you heat it. There are some jigs available. I made one using a 3/8" bolt that screws into the back of the bolt and has a little clamp to pinch the handle against the bolt body. Brownells sells the flux and sheets of solder. You probably just need the flux. Put some flux on the joint, position the handle, and heat it with a torch to melt the solder. Don't let the bolt head get too hot (hold this end in a wet rag). When it's cool, bang the handle on a piece of wood to make sure you have a solid joint.

This is a good opportunity to fix the primary extraction too. The failure to extract in the first place was probably due in part to the handle being so far back on the body that it missed the extraction ramp on the back of the receiver. If you search on "bolt timing" or "primary extraction" or "extraction cam" you should be able to find what you need to know. Here is an example:

https://www.longriflesinc.com/...n-timing-tig-welding

Or you could just sent it out. If you do this you might as well get it welded on. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Thanks for your replies. Assuming I can properly reattach the handle to the bolt body, I would also like to get it welded back on. Is it sufficient to TIG weld the bottom of the handle to the bolt as pictured in here? Or do you also weld the sides and top?

Here is a youtube video that shows part of what's going on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szy4HBg3q80

So when you "time" a bolt handle you can control two things: how it clocks relative to the bolt body and how far back it sits on the bolt body. The clocking part is mostly determined by where the cocking ramp sits relative to the trigger and where the bolt lugs are with the bolt closed. Then you just want to have the handle as far forward as possible without hitting the back of the receiver (with the bolt closed).

With the rems I've worked on I had to weld a blob on the ramp part of the handle to get the primary extraction right. My point is that you probably can't get things to line up nice just by adjusting the position of the handle. Don't focus on getting the ramps to line up, rather get it clocked properly and then just forward.

Welding and soldering don't usually go together. To weld the handle, all the solder needs to be cleaned off. Any solder present in the joint while welding will contaminate the weld. Also, you would definitely have a blemish in the finish. For welded handles only, usually the handle is beveled with a grinder on 3 sides of the contact area and the handle is welded on 3 sides. Having a fillet 4th (cam side) can interfere with the function and is a pain to re-profile.

The LRI guys weld and solder (not solder and weld). They first clean off all the solder, weld the root, then wick solder into the joint after welding. Again, the surfaces are cleaned to do this, so the finish is removed.

Also, you can buy aftermarket bolts that are machined out of a single piece of steel.

Thanks again, its a shame to destroy the nice Trinyte finish on this gun as that is one of the reasons I bought it.
But hopefully it will be done properly without butchery.
I have played with +/- 40 Remingtons. Only one other needed a sako extractor. This 300 wsm lemon looks like it needs the full meal deal.

Get rid of it and get one that's one piece.

First, the bolt handle is just the symptom; why didn't it extract in the first place? Even with an out of time handle, brass still should come out. Hand loads? Factory loads?
Secondly, it is common to call low temp alloy joining, "Solder". It is common to call hi temp brass joining, "Brazing". That avoids confusion.
Thirdly, Model 70 handles are cast with an integral ring which is brazed to the bolt body; a much better system. Not just a strap like the Rem.
Forthly, many ways to re-attach the handle. I weld them back on; not very hard to do with a TIG welder. But you do have to make sure the extracting cam is in the right place. It is not a rocket engine.

It originally ejected Fed and Win sized brass like it should
Remington brass will weakly extract but not eject. Just lays in the action as the factory extractor wouldn't hold onto it so the ejector would function...
The Remington rim measures 0.528"
The Winchester measures 0.534"
Fed measures 0.532"

It extracts well now with the sako extractor. Ejects all brass. Weakly ejects loaded rounds however but that is of minor concern now because the bolt handle is no longer attached.

After downloading and blowing up the photo, it's clearly a bad brazing joint. It happens. Had it been returned to Remington with the extractor problem the extractor and the bolt handle would have both been warranty. At this point, I don't think they would touch it without replacing the entire bolt and they would defiantly charge you for it. I always silver solder them back on and despite the fact that I have hand loading customers with rawhide and plastic mallets and no sense of decency when it comes to charging cases, I have never had one broken off a second time. Silver and brazing are VERY strong when done right. Unfortunately, there will always be a certain amount of infant mortality in any product.

Of course, Speer is 100% per usual.
I would have checked your ejector for correct length; Doesn't matter now. Since your real problem was ejection, not extraction. That is what happens when we address symptoms and not root problems.
And the bolt handle now seems to be unrelated.

Im always reluctant to send things back for warranty. Usually my gunsmith can get things working properly saving me shipping and time.

However, if next the barrel falls off, it will be going back to Remington, not for warranty but with a nasty letter.

I'm am big fan of Remingtons but this rifle is a POS regardless of who built it.

Thanks for all your help guys.

I probably lose $2,000 to $3,000 worth of work each year because a guy will come in with a $100 to $300 problem and after a quick look, I bite my lip and get the number for the closest warranty shop and write the number and address down on one of my business cards and give it to the guy. I could keep my mouth closed and just take the work and I suppose that if I was younger and hungrier I probably would. But I have never lost a customer doing it and I have had more than I can count come back in with a bottle of whiskey or box of chocolates after I saved them a hundred or so dollars.

And of course, I know that warranty will expire in 6 months and once I've led them into a false sense of security, I can keep fleecing those sheeps for a lifetime ! ! ! ! ! ! ! LOL

If that is a relatively new gun and you haven't altered it the work would likely be warranty. The warranty center will replace the bolt with a new one and correct any other issues causing hard extraction. This will cost you nothing. They even pay for your shipping. I work at a warranty center in South Carolina and we see this frequently. The big magnums are notorious for rough chambers which put a huge load on the bolt handle and extractor. A properly polished chamber will easily release a fired case, unless it is an overloaded one. Bad brazing is also common. We occasionally see bad extractors. Properly installed they are not inferior to any other type.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead Eye:
Thanks again, its a shame to destroy the nice Trinyte finish on this gun as that is one of the reasons I bought it.
But hopefully it will be done properly without butchery.
I have played with +/- 40 Remingtons. Only one other needed a sako extractor. This 300 wsm lemon looks like it needs the full meal deal.

Too late. It's altered. Your warranty department would send this back as fast as the bolt handle fell off.
One day, I might actually get to shoot it! And I betcha it will be a shooter...
Actually all bets are off on this one.

OP,
Your 700 handle can not be TIMED properly by Einstein or Houdini unless the handle is re-worked.

Most do shoot quite well. We get a couple of rifles a week in for claimed "accuracy issues". "This damn thing won't hold a 8" group at at 100yds" is the usual hand written note. I will mount a Leupold 50mm scope with Warne rings and bases. Then take a quick trip to the range. 90% of the time they will shoot bug hole groups with commercial ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead Eye:
Too late. It's altered. Your warranty department would send this back as fast as the bolt handle fell off.
One day, I might actually get to shoot it! And I betcha it will be a shooter...
Actually all bets are off on this one.

I wonder how well that Remmy handle acts as a 3rd safety lug when they fail by simply pulling on them?

quote:

Originally posted by Dans40XC:
OP,
Your 700 handle can not be TIMED properly by Einstein or Houdini unless the handle is re-worked.

It would be nice to see a close up of your Tig welding on Rem.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Doug W:
I wonder how well that Remmy handle acts as a 3rd safety lug when they fail by simply pulling on them?

Was the bolt handle acting as a third safety lug even considered in the design of the 700 ?

Doug W,
I have 10,000+ TIG welded handles in circulation/operation from Remington's &/or Custom actions.
The Remington 3 rings of steel doesn't require a bolt handle to act as a 3rd lug as per the blacksmith produced Mauser's.
Get a Clue!!

It's not my first rodeo!!

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:


If I remember right, the Winchester is a sleeve that fits over the rear of the bolt then brazed. Darcy Echols pins them on his Legends

As I recall, the Winchester bolt has a section turned down and knurled to receive the sleeve. The sleeve is then forced on to the knurled area with a hydraulic press, with a washer of brazing material placed between the sleeve and the bolt body. Then the whole assembly is heated in an oven until the brazing material melts and flows into the grooves created by the knurling process.

It's difficult to see how that system could be improved on.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:


If I remember right, the Winchester is a sleeve that fits over the rear of the bolt then brazed. Darcy Echols pins them on his Legends

As I recall, the Winchester bolt has a section turned down and knurled to receive the sleeve. The sleeve is then forced on to the knurled area with a hydraulic press, with a washer of brazing material placed between the sleeve and the bolt body. Then the whole assembly is heated in an oven until the brazing material melts and flows into the grooves created by the knurling process.

It's difficult to see how that system could be improved on.

That’s good info, thanks!!

Would you post a close up pic of several fired cases from that rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by Dead Eye:
Round count zero
Wouldn't extract, got a Sako extractor
Now the bolt handle came off in my hand
Round count still zero.
Can you bolt the handle back on?
How much of a mess will re soldering the handle make to the finish of the bolt/handle?

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Dans40XC:
Doug W,
I have 10,000+ TIG welded handles in circulation/operation from Remington's &/or Custom actions.
The Remington 3 rings of steel doesn't require a bolt handle to act as a 3rd lug as per the blacksmith produced Mauser's.
Get a Clue!!

It's not my first rodeo!!

OK, I will wander the streets asking random people if they have one of your tig jobs. 325 million people, sooner or later I will run into someone that has one of those 10,000+.

Ummm....Rodeo Cowboy it was a bit of sarcasm, referring to a soldered on handle as a safety lug.

All that aside, the much revered '3 rings of steel' do nothing to lower the bending and shear stresses on the lugs from bolt thrust.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by Doug W:
I wonder how well that Remmy handle acts as a 3rd safety lug when they fail by simply pulling on them?

Was the bolt handle acting as a third safety lug even considered in the design of the 700 ?

I hope not.

Sort of an inside joke. Since I started my receiver building I have poured over any reference material. Frank DeHass's Bolt Action Rifles states that the Rem 700 bolt handle acts as a 3rd safety lug.
I laugh every time I read that knowing how little force it take to knock them off.

Doug W-
Google may be your best option.

Of the hundred or so sleeved Win 70 bolt handles that I have TIG welded,I have not witnessed/seen 1 that the handle was pressed onto the bolt body aft end or soldered or brazed.
The handle is too cheap a casting to be pressed or brazed.

quote:

Originally posted by Dans40XC:
Doug W,
I have 10,000+ TIG welded handles in circulation/operation from Remington's &/or Custom actions.
The Remington 3 rings of steel doesn't require a bolt handle to act as a 3rd lug as per the blacksmith produced Mauser's.
Get a Clue!!

It's not my first rodeo!!

It took more than blacksmithing to produce Mausers. Get a Clue!

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Would you post a close up pic of several fired cases from that rifle?

I would love to however it has never been fired outside the factory. Ever!

Well how did you determine it needed a Sako extractor?

quote:

Originally posted by Dead Eye:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Would you post a close up pic of several fired cases from that rifle?

I would love to however it has never been fired outside the factory. Ever!

Because before I handloaded, I checked function with sized brass. It wouldn't pull the Remington brass out of the chamber and/or out of the gun very well. The extractor was weak.
Win brass had a slightly larger case head and would extract and eject.
I wanted it to work with all brass so a Sako extractor was installed.

The solder/braze terminology has reared it's ugly head again. An old peeve of mine which has caused much confusion.
There is a 'silver solder' which has about 5 % silver and the rest is tin. A true solder melting about 400 F..There is a 'silver solder ' that melts up at about 900 F or so and this is a braze not a solder !!
These are numbers for steel. Low temperature -solder, high temperature -braze.

I had a bolt handle come off on one of my custom rifles.I had just received the rifle and cycled the bolt a few times empty to check things out.I don't think I had fired it yet.The action was a Vektor and it was the bolt handle that came with the action-not a replacement.

OK, I misinterpreted your original post. But I can tell you that it was likely not fired at the factory either. They don't proof guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead Eye:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Would you post a close up pic of several fired cases from that rifle?

I would love to however it has never been fired outside the factory. Ever!

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
But I can tell you that it was likely not fired at the factory either. They don't proof guns.

That's a bit concerning