I've got a couple of Mauser actions that I turning into sporters. I'm trying to do all the work on them that I can. My question is when reblueing does all the old blueing have to be removed before the reblueing is done? One action I have I've polished all the blueing off and this one is a no brainer. The other action is is very good shape but a couple of scratches on the top of the receiver. Just have to get this taken care of. Do I have to strip this one to get a good job reblueing. Thank you from a novice.
Pegleg

Most often I get the best result if the surface is unifom, but if a customer wants the job cheap then I often just drop their parts into the tank. These parts sometimes show slight variations where scratches and rub marks were.

Just depends on what you're after, but for the best finish make the surface uniform.

Key thing about bluing. The way the piece looks before bluing is pretty much what it will look like after just blue. It is VERY unlikely that you wouldn't be able to see the difference. In my opinion the bluing needs to be stripped and the barrel and action blued at the same time to help insure a match.

Like many things,your final product is a reflexion on your foundation. A good uniform polish job is a must,IMHO. And to save time,and to really see how the metal is,and what it needs before polishing,is to take off the blueing. To do this,have a litte acid brush,and a little bit of HCL. Put your parts under hot water,then brush on the HCL,and boom all your blueing is gone. Rinse off,and start buffing it out. vangunsmith

van, what is HCL?

quote:

Originally posted by grizz007:
van, what is HCL?

hydrochloric acid

hcl
h3so4
h20

Dear Pegleg:

Last Saturday I was removing the old bluing on a 1940 98k, where someone had done a slap dash re-blue job in the interim. Prepping the steel and removing all the old blueing is essential, just like painting a house, car, etc. I had a house painting business during High School and college, and preparation is paramount to a sweet paint job.

My technique is to remove the old bluing with naval jelly. First, I degrease the action with non-chlorine brake cleaner before hitting it with naval jelly. The naval jelly takes about 5 applications using a plastic basin and an old tootbrush. I wash it off with hot water in between applications. You will notice white smudges in some areas after 2-3 applications. These I believe are the old blueing salts exiting the steel pores, particularly in machined corners, and the hot water helps open those pores. On an old Brno with military blueing, it took 7-8 applications of naval jelly.

After the final application, when I cannot see any more white smudges, I wash it off with distilled water, and coat the steel with oil before surface rusting begins.

As far as Hydrochloric Acid, what molar do you other guys use to remove blueing?

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

"First, I degrease the action with non-chlorine brake cleaner before hitting it with naval jelly. The naval jelly takes about 5 applications using a plastic basin and an old tootbrush. I wash it off with hot water in between applications."

DITTO! It's the easiest chemical method but you will need to polish it afterwards.

Listen to all who tell you that a "uniform surface" is a must for a good blueing job.

quote:

As far as Hydrochloric Acid, what molar do you other guys use to remove blueing?

Chris while I understood MOLAR about 35 years ago when I graduated college the concept has left me. I simply bought muratic acid from the hardware or pool place. Then I would mix a very weak mixture. If I remember correctly something like 7% acid(15/1?). Rinse with water and I used baking soda and water to neutralize. Nitrite bluing is gone instantly. Rust bluing takes a little longer. If I was polishing I would dry and get to work. If waiting oil to keep from rusting until I was ready.

Thank you gentlemen! It looks like I've got another 100 hours of polishing to do on the one action. I've completed one action and it took about a 100 hours of HAND polishing starting with 400 grit and working up to 1000 grit. Did everything by hand so as to not round some of the corners and edges. Vapodog advised me on this and I've got him to thank now that the one action is done. It looks pretty good. Now to barrel it and then off to get the blueing done. thanks again!

quote:

Now to barrel it and then off to get the blueing done.

Unless you want to say you hand sanded it. I would sure check the difference in $$ the bluer wants to polish it. Bet you are getting around $.25/hr for your time.

quote:

Bet you are getting around $.25/hr for your time.

ramrod340- I think you are a little high with that figure. But I'm trying to do most all the work myself. Want to see just what I can accomplish with what I have. My next big chalange after barreling the action will be the iron sights as I don't have a sight installation jig but I've got a mill so I think I can get it done with the right setup and a little math on sight height.
Thanks for your input. One last question. I was planning to face the receiver then lap the lugs then square the bolt face to the receiver. My question is I was planning to seat the barrel to the receiver face AND the C-ring when screwing on the barrel. Is this a bad idea or should I just use the C-ring to fit he barrel to? thanks again.

Unless you are going re-heat treat I would go light on the lapping. 75_80% is plenty. I always set my M98 barrels to bottom on the c-ring and touch the front of the action.

Well, Pegleg... barrel fitting is another sack of potatoes.

You'll find more than credible opinions on all three approaches.

My boss, who is a target rifle smith with decades of experience, prefers to torque up to the outer--secondary--torque shoulder. His argument is that it's a larger radius and offers more support.

Especially if one is to float the barrel.

A majority, I believe, advocate torquing up to C ring, or primary torque shoulder.

And... I believe that if you search the site long enough, you'll find a post by the estimable D'Arcy Echols, who likes to torque up to both shoulders.

Go figure.

flaco

Dear Pegleg:

Now that you have the bluing off, try Mark Lee's rust bluing available from Brownells. I've had real success with it. But make sure that you have perfectly clean tanks for boiling the part and only use distilled water from new jugs for boiling the parts and for neutralizing it with baking soda. I found that having 6-8 gallons on hand was sufficient to blue two rifles at once.

I used painted rain gutter, gutter end caps and high heat permatex in the seams for the boiling water. Barrels are a pain in the butt, since they don't fit in the oven, so they have to be cooked on the top of the stove with burners, and the gutter won't take a direct flame, so I had to use old cookie trays underneath. Get a good supply of latex gloves. Do not touch that steel, and your steel wool for polishing must be oil free, by cleaning it with acetone, preferably outside. Acetone works great, but is tricky on your body. I washed my gloves periodically with distilled water.

Lastly, follow the directions to the letter. I let some of the compound sit too long on the steel, and I got slight pitting.

I found that a 220 grit finish or a sand blasted finish on the receiver allows the rust bluing to make a nice even finish. I've experimented with finishes up to and including a 600 grit, and on some parts a 1500 grit finish, but found that the best rust blue finish is around 220-320 grit. Too polished a finish left it a bit uneven in color.

So, the best results in my experience are the receiver gets a 220 to sand blasted finish and the chrome moly barrel, bottom metal and ejector/bolt stop a 320 grit finish.

If you hot tank with bluing salts, then I guess a high polish is okay, at least from the jobs that I had done over the years.

As to rounded corners, you got the right advice from Vapodog. I rounded some of the corners off on my first Mauser receiver using my father in law's wire wheel on a bench motor. Stupid mistake. Also, a friend who tig-welded a bolt handle on for me thought he was doing me a favor by polishing the bolt; rounded the corners. Bugs the hell out of me.

Have fun.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Dear Paul K:

Thanks for the muriatic acid idea. I used that same mixture with a bucket and sponge to clean off old oxidized paint on a house before I painted it. Cleans your hands off, too, but itches like crazy. Did that when I was young and dumb.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis