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| One of Us |
I wonder how much MRC is asking for the action part of their business, and what would be included. | ||
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One of Us |
22WRF, Their prototyping equipment alone is astounding. I researched it years ago for the company I worked with....a Billion dollar a year company and we could not afford it!!!!!...well at least it was decided it wasn't in the company's interest even though prototyping was a serious headache. It's no secret that the action portion of MRC is for sale...they have stated this directly. Any prospective buyer should be fully prepared to deal with some problems in the investment casting arena. It seems to me that there has been some misdirection in the tooling scheme and the machining that follows.....in other words some retooling possibly. I'm surprised that no one has lamblasted them for investment castings as they have Ruger....but that too is to come! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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| One of Us |
Vapodog, I think in the main that has come up when people have asked why you don't see the Ruger action on top end custom guns. Mike | |||
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| One of Us |
Mike, Issues dealing with the use of Ruger actions in custom guns go far beyond the invstment casting issue but the IC thing is one easily picked on. Simply stated.....Ruger isn't a M-70 or M-98 and never will be...nuff said! There's an old story about the man whose wife suspected him of cheating on her.....it was no longer relevant that he wasn't.....only relevant that he had to deal with the perception!!! Like it or not there is a perception about castings in receivers and anyone that buys MRC actions had better be ready to spend the necessary sums to fight the perceptions already out there.....and this isn't a small cost anymore! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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| one of us |
Were there money investers in the MRC co. that got the burned? Did they declare bankruptcy? | |||
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Moderator |
i just love this.... all steel is "cast" at some time or another... as for ruger actions.. ginger or marriane? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
All steel is poured maybe.....there's a helluva difference between an investment casting and a machined pre-hardened cold rolled bar and a forging. Besides....the issue here is MRC and potential sale of same.....not Ruger...please stay on topic!  /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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| Moderator |
yes boss.... and yeah, all steel in MRC is reheated, injected, and just like a ruger, a darn fine action. however, if they had PRODUCTION they would be displacing FN/GIAT from even thinking about bringing back the m70... as it stands, they have wasted a huge sales opp, and anyone who buys them will be behind the 8ball, playing catch up.... they do make good barrels, though opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Exactly and that's to the point about he cost of buying the action business....one can sit with the owner and get the price and details.....it's the cost to be paid after that that one has to consider. 22WRF asked one part of the question....the other part is.....How much is it worth! The way to get this answer is to hire a company to do a market research study. From there one has to add the other risks and issues. Let me ask you.....would you shell out $10,000 to have a custom built on an E R Shaw barrel and action???????.....an Abbott & Bennett barrel??? A Savage barreled action??????.........A Ruger action?????........ Not just NO.....but Hell NO!!! Given all the bad press MRC actions have received lately.....have they fallen into that category? /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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| One of Us |
Vapodog, Just my observations but I would say that 99% of bolt actions that are $6000US or more will be from one of the following group 1) Gunsmith made and on M70 or Mauser or Mauser copies such as Granite 2) From the custom shops of Wby, Sauer, Blaser etc Of the remaiing 1% I reckon 99% of that 1% would be H&H, Purdey, WR and some of the other European makers. I would guess the number of 5 or $6000 plus bolt actions on a Ruger would be about as common as on a Howa action Nothing wrong with Howa or Rugers but perceptions and wants rule the day when the cost goes way up. Mike | |||
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| One of Us |
I don't know much about the rest of them, but $6000 is more then the Wby. factory is worth. Bob | |||
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| One of Us |
I asked the question to stimulate interest on this board. I happen to know that there are quite a few very talented engineers that post on this board, as well as very talented businessmen, some who have a lot of money, and some who have even more than a lot of money. I agree that "cast" has a perception to it that many would find distateful when considering an expensive custom rifle. However, I also think that particular perception has been "kind of" overcome in the case of MRC because many folks have had great success in using these actions for some very fine guns, some of which we have seen here on AR. Rusty's .404s come to mind. The main perception that MRC has to beat is availabilithy of product. I like choice. I think most people that like guns also like choice. I hate to see MRC go dow the tubes. They were going to offer a nice big action that was affordable enough that people could get one and play with it. I hope a few folks here on AR get together and buy the place and make em available, using different business methods so as to make the thing work. | |||
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| one of us |
22WRF, MRC did this to themselves by making big promises, piss poor QC. As far as AR wealthy members investing,  I'm sure they already have enough right off's Best to just let MRC go down by themselves | |||
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| One of Us |
It’s always interesting to listen to people who don’t have money coming up with brilliant ideas on how those that do should spend theirs.  | |||
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| one of us |
fyj, my thoughts also. | |||
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| One of Us |
Do I remember correctly that MRC drummed up sales for the actions on the forums, here and elsewhere? I recall someone doing that- I was very wary of it, not that I questioned the honesty of the people, but my better judgement told me to "wait and see" (one of the rare times I've done that). | |||
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| One of Us |
So the company has so many orders for actions that it is way backlogged, but they want to sell the actions part of the business?? That doesn't add up. | |||
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one of us |
You just had to post here taking a swipe at someone didn't you. You truly are a jackass. | |||
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| One of Us |
FYI Do you have any money in a pension fund. How about a mutual fund. How do you know how much money I have. Maybe I am looking for a partner? | |||
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| one of us |
A fool and his money soon part ways  WRF what part of this makes good sense to you as an investor? So the company has so many orders for actions that it is way backlogged, but they want to sell the actions part of the business?? That doesn't add up. | |||
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| One of Us |
I don’t recall mentioning either you or your bank account in anything that I posted. | |||
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| One of Us |
What part makes good sense is that they offer products that nobody else offered for a certain price point that appeals to a very large population. Of course, everything depends on the price they are asking for the business, doesn't it Which is why I asked the question in the first place. Obviously a buy out would have to make economic sense. Doesn't seem like there would be much there as most of the work is done off sight. Basically, for the action part anyway, they were a marketing company. So it shouldn't cost much to purchase it, and I would think they would take something before they would let it go down the tubes for nothing. the longer it sits the cheaper it will get. | |||
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| One of Us |
YOU didn't mention me directly, but anybody with a third grade education reading this post would assume that your comment was directed towards me. | |||
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| One of Us |
Did you ever consider that this might be the very reason they are in trouble? | |||
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| One of Us |
Actualy how big is the marked for those actions, and what is customers prepared to pay for eks. magnum squarebridge mausers of god quality | |||
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| One of Us |
Jorgen, You have asked a key question but it has been discussed before.....it seems there is a belief that MRC didn't really fully tap the potential of the market that exists. (whatever that is) In another thread I stated a company that specializes in answering that question.....it's not at all clear that it's ever been done and I suspect there is no objective answer to the question. Without it this is all conjecture at best. I does appear to me however that the market MRC was able to capture was much less than they expected....but again it's merely a guess..... MRC made M-70 look alikes and not Mauser clones.....and they retailed for about $550 or there abouts......j /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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| Moderator |
jorgen, that would depend who you ask and at what price point. MRC WAS at 400+ right and left handed actions, ordered, in a year, then they put the project on hold. the average joe, who wants a magnum square bridge mauser, couldn't buy enough $500 actions to keep the BBK actions in production. not a MAUSER but pretty close. on the other hand, the CZ 550 magnum fairly well flies off the the internet in sales at $750 for a complete rifle.. again, not a mauser. (frankly, the timney trigger fixes 75% of my complaints about CZ actions).... true magnum suqare bridge mauser actions? vektor, from RSA, was imported for a couple years... to much $$ for the tinkerer, and too low finish for the SUPER custom guys. however, I'll take 2, 4.0" internal mag length dual squarebridge mauser actions, with a 1.25x12TPI front ring, and an .850 bolt, at $650 each... why so cheap? that's 20% more than MRC wanted for their (vaporware) PH action. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Asked another way If i looked around down in the dark corner of the basement and stumbled over a small pile (a cuple of hundreds) of new produced magnum squarebridge "mausers" and some hundreds VZ 24 actions. What could one sell them for, and in what quantitys. They would be sold anonymys, so we dont discredit our companyname  | |||
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| one of us |
I ordered a couple of M1999's on the startup deal. I visited the plant in Kalispel, rejected one action, had a rifle made up on the replacement and canceled the second one. The action was supposed to be an improved M70 and it was not. The finish was third rate. There could be many problems with the MRC action goins on but for sure they don't have the metalworking skill there that it takes. Join the NRA | |||
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| One of Us |
With regard to their Magnum action. I think the problem there was How in the world do you sell something you don't have. When a guy wants a new Pickup he goes down to the local Ford, Chev, Dodge, toyota or Datsun place and drives a few and picks the one he wants. In other words, He GETS TO CHOOSE, to look at what in the hell he is getting. But MRC's business plan was to make you guess what you were getting. How in the hell are you going to have a successful business doing that. Ask your wife, or girlfriend, to buy a new black dress without looking it over or trying it on. She won't do it. But MRC wanted you to buy stuff without kicking the tires. I think that business would be a great business if it were scaled down to a point where there was a decent inventory of good product, and you offered a guarentee that if a guy bought an action and received it and didn't like it he could send it back. I think you could ask a bit more for an action with that kind of guarentee and as long as you produced a good action you could run a viable business making them and selling them. If that were not so, then how in the hell did Dakota last so long and still contiunes to sell Model 70 clones for three times the money of a model 70. Jorgen If you have a couple hundred newly produced squarebridge magnum mausers in new condition for sale at a good price drop me a PM. Maybe we can make a deal. | |||
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One of Us |
For my 2 cents worth, I think 22WRF is correct about this having potential. I always thought that MRC's problems were more of a production, than a market problem. Maybe marketing strategy? I always saw their niche as somewhere in the middle, not top end, $6,000 custom rifles, and I am talking about the actions they actually did get into production. I think the market is there, so the question is as WRF is saying - can it be bought at a suitable price, and can the buyer make production & quality control work? And what is a suitable price? Tough questions, but not any different in any similar business purchase/sale/startup situation. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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| One of Us |
PM send | |||
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| One of Us |
I don't know much about the availability aspect. Not everyone wanted a magnum action. I passed on the charter action sale because I wanted a short action for a 7mm-08. The damn thing is just too heavy.  Cast didn't matter, I went with a tang safety Ruger! It was action length and weight for me. Sooner or later the action manufacturers are going to stop making H&H length actions, then shortenening them down for the rest of us. If you need to use a magazine block, you didn't get it right! My simple advice would be: MAKE A PROPERLY SIZED ACTION! | |||
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| Moderator |
Jorgen, sent you a couple PMs Don, heh, just teasing here... winchester used the same length action from 375HH to 22hornet in the pre-64 days... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Don Are you saying too big, or too heavy, or both. Obviously if they were too heavy you could take some metal off to lighten them up. If you have Mr. Turpin's book on David Miller you can see that he, Mr. Miller, takes quite a bit of metal off of a Model 70 action before putting it back together again. Why not do the same thing with an MRC action? | |||
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| one of us |
22- yes, you can reduce th eweight somewhat from the MRC action. But in the end it will still weigh more than other action. I have posted this here before, as well as when asked telling MRC why I though their short actions were not suitable for a light wieght rifle. THere is another problem with the process of reducing weight. If I were to spend the time paring off all of the excess metal MRC puts on their actions (of any size, not just the short ones) and spent the time to slick up, polish, and true the action for a true top-level rifle, then it would cost considerably more than a Dakota action would cost new and in the white. So it will cost more it still will not have the prestige or generally accepted social status of a Dakota, pre-64 M70, Mauser, whatever. Do you have Turpin's new book? If so, where did you get it? I want to buy a copy but did not know it was out for distributin. | |||
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| One of Us |
Marc The latest book I have from Turpin is the David Miller Book. I don't know if he has another one out since that one. | |||
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| one of us |
yes, that is the one I want. Where can I find it? thanks! | |||
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| One of Us |
http://www.safariclub.org/articles/index.cfm?action=vie...5&typeID=3&archive=1 | |||
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