In yet another triumph of enthusiasm--did I say obsession?--over reason, I'm looking to begin Project #3.

It will be a Mauser for certain: I'm thinking of 7.65x54 Belgian.

Obviously, this has some drawbacks. Lack of readily available go gauge and reamer for a start. Higher prices for a custom barrel, lack of variety in available bullets, resale market probably nil.

What could possibly make this attractive?

Sentiment, I guess. History. A weak spot for anachronism and lost causes.

At first I tried to justify this... when a friend described the cartridge as being ballistically between the 30-06 and the .308.

I checked the volume of the 7.65, and there's no way you can put as much powder in it as a .308.

Even though I'm fairly ignorant of ballistics, it does seem to undercut my friend's argument.

So much for rationality.

While there may be no help for my taste, there may be help in the mechanics.

I'm looking for a stock pattern.

I've been advised by one of the professionals here that if you want to do it right, you get a pattern, finish it in the desired manner, and bed the action. One then ships the pattern and a nice blank off to a cutter... who will by virtue of talent and the accuracy of his machine produce a semi-inletted stock that needs negligible additional inletting.

In short, you have a stock in which the wood inletting has accuracy on a par with glass bedding.

A long and convoluted process I'll grant, but a way for an amateur to come close to the quality of the big boys.

Which leaves me looking for a stock pattern.

As to design, I'm partial to the three rifles Forrest posted here.

In particular, I like the grips, which go beyond the "Open" (that's currently popular in custom rifles) to the "long".

I like the way the grip caps touch the end of the toe line.

I like the narrowness of the grips. Yes, SDH, I'll file the tang. LOL.

Were I to choose, I'd like my pattern to emulate the full length stock on top, only cut to a 9.5 inch fore end. This stock seems all lightness and grace.

And I'm looking for a pattern with generous drop to the comb, as I'll be using iron sights.

I know, I know.

There may be no hope.

Still, there's a lot of talent on the board, and... someone might have some advice.

flaco

N.B. And please, ForrestB, don't be offended. Imitation is....

(I hope.)

Good luck on the next project, that's a nice rifle to try to emulate.

As to your freinds claims, I think he is right. Not that it matters really. A couple of things to consider. Even though there is no SAAMI pressure set for the 7.65x53, norma loads theirs to 52,000 psi. The .308 is loaded to 52,000 cup or 62,000 psi. 7.65 loads listed at roughly 48,000 psi are less than 50 fps short of those listed for the .308 at 60,000 psi with the same bullet weight. Thus, at the same pressures the 7.65 will outspeed the .308. Again, what does it really matter? No game animal will ever notice 50 fps and, if you are shooting targets, velocity shouldn't be the deciding factor, accuracy should.

Keep an eye on ebay auctions. sometimes something interesting pops up.

Also, GAG. Keep in mind the great thing about building your own pattern is you can change anything you don't like on the donor stock, check piece, butt, forearm etc. You can fit a barreled action to a stock that it wasn't even made for. Just buy a big can of Bondo and go to work.

I just finished building a pattern for a M98 large ring fitted in a BRNO 21H smallring stock. Here's the kicker, It's now has a dropbox!

Sounds like a fun project, but I'd pass on 7.65 myself

Terry

I'd go with an 8x57 and call it good, actually very good!

Flaco,

I followed your discussion on the other board and I'm glad you're going to go through with it.

I look forward to seeing the finished result next year!

What particulars are you planning to add to this rifle to make it yours? What parts? What accessories? Which barrel do you plan to use?

Give us specifics man!

Poleaxe-

It's good to hear that the 7.65 has at least some redeeming qualities. Actually, the guy that told me it was ballistically between the 30-06 and .308 knows a lot more than I.

Terry-

I think my idea of the perfect stock--at least for this project--is at least as unorthodox as the choice of cartridge. Thus little chance I'd find something on ebay.

I've spent a lot of time looking at the Stalker and Express stocks on GAGS. I doubt I'd be able to get one with enough drop in the comb, but I'll probably call before I make a decision.

Grandview recently posted an image of some sweet Bondo stock work. I believe he suggested a unique formula. I'll have to go back and look up his post.

(The irony was, he was looking to close up an open grip, and I want exactly the opposite.)

Anyway, it may be possible to Bondo one of the GAGS versions, but I'd rather start with something closer to my ideal.

Craigster, my heart--important word--is set on the 7.65. At least so far. Thanks though.

And Jason???

Look, who am I to question z1r when it comes to ballistics?

Hopefully, the rifle will have a 24 inch L-W barrel, hinged floorplate, iron sights--Lyman aperture, and, if I can make it work, a Lyman globe in front, that can be replaced by a post--and a RED RECOIL PAD.

I've been getting a lot of pressure from my neighbor (who leant me the boiling tank). He shoots long range, and wants to see me make a .308.

But I already have a 6.5x55, and if I wanted to make a dedicated target (Mauser?), I'd probably make a 6.5x284.

Really, it was one of the old timers at the club who decided me: "That 7.65's killed a lot of deer," he said.

That, and the fact that my ex is Chilean.

I've always liked those fiery South Americans.

flaco

The one grandview did was nice, but it only partially showed what is possible with you own pattern. Not enough drop? Just cut it and add more. The one I did had too much drop for me so I took a full 1" out of mine.

Here's the one I did. The action area was stretched and widened, a dropbox was added, 1/2" was taked out of the grip length, The drop in the butt was reduced from 2" to 1"and I added 1 1/4" to the forearm length.




It was shipped to Jeffe today.

Terry

flaco

Does the top rifle look something like you are thinking? Actually these were both from the same original pattern which was the old Rienhart Fajen Europeon Special.

So where do I find a Rienhart Fajen European Special, Idared?

And a can of Bondo?

LOL.

flaco

As close as I've seen to what I'm looking for. Thanks, Idared. What's the cheekpiece look like?

And Terry?

Beautiful work. And a sweet barreled action, too.

An option is to go to someone with a good duplicator, a Hoenig - top end or Dakota at the bottom end, and have them glass your action into a pattern that they have and then cut your blank. To get a one on one duplication requires a very accurate machine. The Hoenigh Rodman has radial clamps that result in far less vibration in the blank. Most folks who do duplication will have one or more patterns that you will may like. You will still have a few hours to inlet but much less than a "95%" inlet. The duplication with glass will run you $400 and up. But this will save you having to produce your own pattern.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
You will still have a few hours to inlet but much less than a "95%" inlet. The duplication with glass will run you $400 and up.

HEY!!! dang it chic you don't have to tell everything you know

I do tell guys, repeatedly, what you say about my 90-95%... "all the easy wood is out, and all the hard work is there"...

speaking of which, I am, yet again, upgrading my beaver

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:


speaking of which, I am, yet again, upgrading my beaver

jeffe

I had a gal say that to me once,..... I ran.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
You will still have a few hours to inlet but much less than a "95%" inlet. The duplication with glass will run you $400 and up.

HEY!!! dang it chic you don't have to tell everything you know

I do tell guys, repeatedly, what you say about my 90-95%... "all the easy wood is out, and all the hard work is there"...

speaking of which, I am, yet again, upgrading my beaver

jeffe

All jokes aside, what are you doing to it to upgrade it?

repalcing the linear rails (shaft) with ways (supported "trucks") along the x (long) axis... which will take some stray movement out (i have to REALLY show you what i mean.. ).. and that may allow me to get the inletting closer..

Outside of the stock, i am VERY pleased with how it turns.. .the inletting i am just "pleased" with.. but I am a perfectionist

jeffe

When Bishop and Fagen went out of business a friend and I went to the auction. We have all of the Fagen Mauser patterns for their stock line. We bought about 400 patterns, they were selling them as a group, all the mauser patterns were in one lot and the springfields in another. If your interested in a Fagen pattern it can be had at the right price.

flaco

You might be able to get a "Europeon Special" utility stock for a pattern from http://www.wenig.com as they have many patterns from the old Fajen company. I talked to them a couple of years ago and they still had that pattern for a Mauser.

Another possibility would be the "Europeon Classic" from Midway when they have them available at fairly reasonable prices. Here is one that has been modified a bit that I am in the process of fitting to a barreled action. You can get somewhat of an idea what the original stock looked like I think, and there are many things you can do with this stock.

Here is the cheekpiece on the other stock.

Here is a shot of a stock that I used last week to cut a Mex 98 classic basic stock. This is a stock fixture I use to change the drop and place cast off into a pattern stock. The pattern is set up on a center line and clamped with the forend on center. The pattern has been cut through the grip several times and glued back together with 5 min. epoxy and a couple of dowels. This pattern had been used on a stock with about 3/4 in at front of comb and 1 1/2 in drop at the heel. Shim up the pattern under the top line until you have the measurement you want (5/8 X 3/4) for this set up and glue. Then fill in to smooth out the grip area. I use a longer area for the grip cap so it can be changed after the blank is cut to go from about 3 5/8 to 4 in. The length on this pattern is about 14 in. long to allow for a skeleton butt plate to finish out at about 13 5/8. I always allow for the center imprint of the spindle driver in the butt end. If you have a donor stock you can make up a pattern as you would like and have almost anyone do the 95% for you.

Mark

I'm sorry I didn't realize you were posting while I was typing and didn't mean to be trying to give competition to your option.

flaco, I wound definately get in touch with Mark and see if you can't get that pattern from him.

Not a problem Idared, the object here is to get the pattern that flaco wanted.

If flaco can find an old Fagen catalog and give me a pattern name or nunber that he's interested in, I can cut a copy of that pattern or perhaps sell him the pattern outright.

It was a strange auction, it was like a piece of American being sold.

How can you not love AR?

Ask a question, and any number of working professionals step up to help out.

I am truly impressed.

And grateful.

Idared, the more I see of it, the more I like your Fajen based stock. I'm ambivalent about schanbels, though. I much prefer the traditional (American) ebony tip. And I'm wondering if an ebony tip would look out of place on so narrow a fore end.

Thanks, Les, for your post. I appreciate especially your illustration of the fixture. When the cutter I've been speaking to mentioned "breaking" the grip to lower the drop, I gasped.

Still, I think what you do is more of what he had in mind.

I like the idea of the longer area for the grip cap. I suspect I'll be putting the cap to the rear, too.

And was wondering about cast off.

I tried to put a little into my first project, but rarely hear it mentioned any more. Has this concept gone by the wayside?

And yes, Mark, I get wistful about the whole deal. Soon all the donor actions will be gone, or priced way out of range of those on limited budgets.

Building rifles is to me archaic anyway: A slow painstaking process that demands time and concentration.

Pretty much out of step with today's disposable society.

Which makes it especially nice to find a bunch of folk who still care here on AR.

flaco

PM sent, Mark.

Jeffe,
This is good advertising for your "beaver". They can save a bunch of money and learn how to inlet at the same time. You ought to be charging them for the education they are getting.