I'm about to give this a go with a 6.5mm Douglas barrel that is freakishly rough and copper fouls badly very quickly.

Anyway sage advice?

TIA.

Are you using a kit?

I've had good luck with it in factory barrels. I'm assuming you will use a kit from NECO or something like that. I was real happy with the results i got following the directions. i'm about to do another factory barrel if thats any indication. I'm not sure i'd do a douglas barrel though. you may want to talk to douglas about that beforehand.

quote:

I'm not sure i'd do a douglas barrel though. you may want to talk to douglas about that beforehand.

Well, that brings up another issue. This was a re-barrel job about 2.5 years ago. I have tried everything else to get it to shoot straight (action work, bedded and re-bedded it, etc.) and I have come to the conclusion that the incredibly fast fouling almost has to be the culprit.

I have plenty of Douglas barrels that are excellent shooters, and that foul FAR less then that this one - in fact, this is BY FAR the worst fouling barrel I've ever owned (factory barrels included). After only 10 shots from a clean barrel (you name the bullet), it will push out three consecutive bright blue patches using CR-10. Compare this to a FACTORY 700 barrel that requires 100+ rounds to build up that much copper...

I guess I could give Douglas a call, but I guess I figured it was "too late" to bother them with the issue...

I used the Final Finish system from David Tubb with very good success on my 6.5x284. This particular barrel went from literally snagging patches to very good after following the directions. Don't forget you will also smooth the throat some, so it may be a little longer when you are done.

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Originally posted by larrys:
I used the Final Finish system from David Tubb with very good success on my 6.5x284. This particular barrel went from literally snagging patches to very good after following the directions. Don't forget you will also smooth the throat some, so it may be a little longer when you are done.

Can you tell me more about the copper fouling before and after, as well as accuracy changes? The Tubb system was what I was going to use. Thanks.

9.3 x62, I am a big fan of the Tubbs final finish system. I have been involved in firelappig with that system for a load of riles. All have shown some improvement at least, some have improved drastically. Any that fouled easily, fouled less afterward.

One item of note, use a low powder charge-- I'm pretty sure it's in the instructions (I've done so many I just start with a light charge) In fact I've used several of Seafire's (another AR member--and the Blue Dot guru!) blue dot loads for firelapping. In fact, I've got a bunch of final finish rounds loaded with Blue Dot to lap a couple of 270 WSM's when we can get a good weather day.

I am very diligent about the cleaning in between rounds, but I have a friend who is less so, and he has had great results cleaning somewhat less often than even in the directions. I will say that Larrys comment is valid, David Tubb even states in his literature somewhere that the system may lengthen the throat slightly, I can tell you it isn't measurable with a Stoney Point tool immediately before and after, I've done that at least 18 and probably 20 or 22 times, and only twice could we discern a difference, once it was so minute it was probably tool induced, but the measurement was slightly longer, in the other case it was right at .001, not much in my book. In fact Tubb recommends the use of the finer grit bullets over time, and even sells just them as the 'throat maintenance kit'

If you look on the Krieger web site you can read about the tool marks that occur at cross angles to the throat, which is what causes the majority of your fouling. If you look at many barrels with a borescope you can see where that is obviously what happens.

Sorry to ramble, but in short, If you just follow the Final Finish kit instructions, I think you will be pleased.

As a final note, I don't think Douglas will do anything with a 2.5 yr. old barrel, but firelapping won't hurt it anyway!

Good Luck--Don

Don, thanks for the info. I've got the kit on order. We'll give it a go. For $27, I"ll give it a try before re-barreling.

I agree with Fish, follow the directions and use a fast burning powder at mid range at most. The barrel I used it on showed no ill effects at all as far as accuracy. It was a 3/4" gun before and after. I went from days of cleaning (actually I always quit in frustration) to 3-4 wet patches. Huge improvement for me. Hope it helps.

Also, weigh the bullets before thooting. Someone else here had received one that was a different weight. I think yours should all be 142 SMK, mine were.

I just got done treating a 6.5X55 CZ 550 with Final Finish two weekends ago.

The copper fouling was significanly reduced and 200 yd accuracy went from 1 1/4 to 3/4 MOA for five shot groups. The throat is a little longer, but if I'm getting that kind of accuracy, who cares?

Best $28 I've spent on accurizing a rifle.

ETA: the 6.5 mm bullets are Sierra 142 Match Kings. Tubb selects bullets with the longest possible bearing length to maximize the abrasive to metal contact during the process.

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a go this weekend. Accuracy is now 2 MOA , maybe 1.5 MOA on a really good day, so if that can be whittled down a bit, I'd be elated. That and the tireless cleaning. I've put more CR-10 through this one barrel than any other 10 barrels combined...

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I'm about to give this a go with a 6.5mm Douglas barrel that is freakishly rough and copper fouls badly very quickly.

Thats one reason that I don't use douglas barrels.

I see lots of folks have recommended the Tubb kit already. A good choice. The reason I asked earlier if you were using a kit was to warn you if you were not. Ordinary grinding compounds are generally not suitable unless you have a fair techical knowledge of what sorts and grits of compounds to use, from previous experience in metal finishing or some other similar application.

NECO also sells a good kit, but it is more expensive and more work (you have to imbed the grit into bullets yourself). The NECO kit does have the advantage that you can do about a safe full of guns with the amount of grit they supply.

Another thing is, jacketed bullets are reported to lengthen the throats less than lead bullets when fire-lapping....I guess because the jacketed bullets do not "bump" up in diameter as much when fired.

Anyway, sometimes the improvements can be dramatic. I have a "Bushmaster" with a chrome-lined barrel which would not shoot 3-shot groups at 100 yards under about 2-3/4" with ANY ammo. After fire-lapping it will average just under an inch for 10-shot groups at the same distance. Must have had a burr or some such in the barrel which the fire-lapping removed.

One other thing, you may want to consider not using the coursest of the grits in any kit, at all. My experience is that the coursest grit is usually not required unless the barrel is a real terror for rough.

It is also fun to shoot groups with the lapping rounds. It is really surprising how accurate many rifles are when they are actually firing the lapping rounds. Have seen several which shot their very best ever while being lapped.

AC had a good point.. and let's take it further.
START with the finest grit ... you can always come back and be MORE aggresive, but it's a long wait wiating for the barrel to grow BACK

jeffe

A some what longer throat and/or shallower-angled leade is fine with me.

No more douglas barrels for me. I've had quite a few that were excellent, but this is the second one I've had that was real trouble. I've had better consistency with Shaw barrels as of late, which is far from the gold standard.

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Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
One other thing, you may want to consider not using the coursest of the grits in any kit, at all. My experience is that the coursest grit is usually not required unless the barrel is a real terror for rough.

That's a good point that I forgot to make.

My 550 fouled too much, but accuracy wasn't that ugly. The Tubb kit is 50 bullets, 10 in each grit. I decided to use only 5 bullets in the first two most abrasive grits. The rest of the three grades, I shot all ten.

I used the Tubb system on my .308 two years ago, and it helped reduce fouling and improve accuracy.

Another good thing to use is Fitz jewerly cleaner for the "fine" grade work. Just tried it out after deer season and it worked great!