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What should such a service cost a person? I have a bolt action rifle to be blued. ~Ann   | ||
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Probably @ 3times hot bluing. You can probably do it yourself using Mark Lee Express blue. It's easy, very forgiving & you can do it in a day. Brownells sells it. "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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Rust bluing in one day? Keith IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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I don't see you could rust blue in a day, but for sure, it is a bit of fun and worth trying if you like to make your own things. THe cost however, should be proportional to how much polishing needs to be done. A good professional polish job would be expensive, hard work, and no fun. I am working on a barrel right now as a matter of fact. Brent When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996 | |||
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Prices start at about $275-$300 range and go up. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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I am certainly very far from knowing much about it, but When I spoke at length with Jim Baiar about using his solution I was told that 75% of successful rust bluing was in the preparation. After having tried it, I would say its closer to 90%. If your piece is well polished I don't know that its all that important to repolish it in order to get an acceptable job unless it wasn't polished correctly in the first place. But one of the absolute most important things there is about it is getting every little trace of oil and dirt and cleaner and silicone and old blue and whatever else is on or in that steel off of that steel. In Rust blueing cleanliness is of the utmost importance in order to get a competent job, and I found it out the hard way. Not only does your metalwork have to be spotlessly clean, but also your equipment that you are going to use to card the rust each time you reapply the solution. I used real fine degreased steel wool and it worked very well for me. Many use a small motor with a very fine steel brush wheel. Jim told me he uses one he made from an old washing machine motor. Also, do not think you are going to get a true shiny surface with rust blue. You are going to get a very soft lustre with rust blue because that acid is actually eating the surface molecules and turning them into rust oxide. Gun Goddess rust blue is tough stuff. If you are successful with it it wears like iron! | |||
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Ann, Are you sure you "need" blueing. Rust blueing is a great technique that provides a matte finish and is very good protection. But I believe there are other finishes that will provide protection and a matte finish. Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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If you do try rust bluing use distilled water for the first try. There are enough other variables to contend with. Good Luck! | |||
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Hi Mike, I wanted a durable finish since this is my safari rifle and I was under the impression that rust bleing was very durable. I know it is a labor intensive process to do it right and I was quoted $650 for the job. I thought that was kind of high but I ask because maybe it is not? I do not have the time to do it myself. ~Ann | |||
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Ann, Rusting blue is very good proatection and is very nice and is the the classic wat to go but do a search on various teflon finsishes Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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$650 is pretty high... $300 give or take is about right Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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there is a wide range of prices and a wide range of the quality of the finish. $600-650 is not out of line. But many people would be happy with a $300 job. It all depends on what you will accept-the $300 job may be perfect for you, or you may be disappointed by anything less than the $650 job. It has been my experience that rust blue is stronger and longer lasting than any of the other blues or most of the applied coatings I have seen. BTW-the Express Blue is not the same as true rust bluing. | |||
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Ditto what Marc said. That said, D'Arcy Echols is convinced that Jim Baiar can hot blue and have as durable finish as a good rust blue job. The only thing with Jim is that he does not polish at all. He just dunks 'em. The 3-4 nationally known restoration shops I know of start rust bluing jobs at $500 and go up depending on the amount of additional polishing. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I charge 300.00 for a bolt action. Pre-polished. Roger Kehr Kehr Engraving Company (360)456-0831 | |||
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A caustic blue is not even in the ball park as far as durability, no matter who said it. Try a little test with muriatic acid on both of them. The Caustic will be gone when the acid touches, the rust blue will just sit there and smile at you unless your use something to vigorously rub it in and then do it two or three times more to make it go clean. As far as cost, the $650 to my experience is as higher than I have ever seen. And paying more will not make the job any better, just your pocket book lighter. I have seen some good looking teflon finishes but as yet, I have not seen one that will stay on well. More particularly on sharp edges. | |||
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I'll remember that next time I'm hunting feral swimming pool supplies. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Repeats Chic's test but with blood. I once mistakenly grabbed the barrel of my rifle after dressing an elk out with some blood on my hand. When back in my camp and after cleaning the barrel off I had a nice shiney outline of my hand on that barrel...! | |||
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It's possible that the $650.00 quote included polishing. Which would be on par for price. Roger Kehr Kehr Engraving Company (360)456-0831 | |||
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Those reasons (Chic's and DR's) are really why I learned to rust blue my own stuff; I'm pretty hard on my guns and I can always fix 'em with another rust blue instead of paying someone else or living with the blemish. Echol's tests were about resistance to abraision and physical wear, not chemical conversions. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Cause it to rust, like it's supposed to. Roger Kehr Kehr Engraving Company (360)456-0831 | |||
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tiggertate, try an abrasion test with caustic and rust blue and you will see the same kind of results. A light pass with 400 grit and cautic is gone. You have to work to get a good rust blue off the gun. | |||
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Hello, I'm wondering the same thing. I found a possible solution at Brownells | |||
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I was skeptical too, but tried it (on one of my own rifles) and it works great. I've done 2 rifles with the Mark Lee formula now and it can be done in a day. Takes @ 20 minutes or so per "cycle": rust, boil & card. I used to use an old Swiss armory formula I got from Angier's book, that I made up myself, using deionized water & reagent grade chemicals. It was a great process but this one is far better, cheap & fast. "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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Ann I understand that you want rust blue for the durability. I'm guessing, but for a working rifle as yours, I would not recommend rust blue because of price. A good rust blue is 3 times the price as a hot dipped blue. If you scratch or damage your rifle enough to remove hot dipped blueing you are going to remove rust blue also. Accidents happen all the time. You can have your rifle re-finished about 3 times for the same cost as initial rust bluing. If your rifle were to see light to no work then rust blue would be cost effective. You can have a quality caustic blue done in satin finish to closely match rust blue in apperiance. Apply a coat of hot wax for waterproofing and you are good to go. This is just my opinion. All clients have different opinions, tastes and budgets. I have customers that want their firearms to look close to new regardless how much it is used. Others want it to look battle scared to show how much it's been used or in some cases, abused. It all depends on what group you fall into. James | |||
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Chic, as I recall there were only one or two caustic blue jobs that matched the rust bluing in his test. One of which was done by Baiar. Like a lot of things, I guess it was the craftsman that made the difference, not the process. And the conclusion was that the best of hot bluing can be as durable, not that all or most hot jobs are as durable. But I wasn't there to witness so I won't step out any farther. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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For durrability I would really look into ceramic finishes, some of those do match blueing very well. You can see the difference but they still look good Yes it's cocked, and it has bullets too!!! | |||
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Hi Guys, As always, I appreciate everyone's comments, main reason I like A-R so much! Yes, this rifle is a work horse and not going to be lightly used. I am having a hard time justifying the cost of rust blueing even though I know it is durable. After all, this rifle is just a Whitworth, special to me but if I ever wanted to sell it I doubt I could get what I put into it, etc. Anyway, you have all given me a lot to think about, my goal is to get this rifle finished and back in use! ~Ann | |||
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When first I read your post that said you were quoted $650 I thought it sounded a little high. Then I thought how much my boiling tank cost, how much propane I use for each gun. How much time I spent prepping the rifle. How much time it takes to properly degrease each time. How much work it is to card each pass. How much the carding brushes and wheels cost. How much the solutions cost etc. etc. etc................$650 might be cheap. I'd let Roger Kehr do mine.........................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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