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quote:
Originally posted by Dewey:
You seem to be quite a "hoss's ass", sport and your lack of years of shooting experience shows here, only too well.

You recently slagged Ralf Martini, now it is Seeley Masker, who WAS "the real deal" as we with actual rifle knowledge well know and you also attack Joe, because he "dared" to correct your characteristically ignorant remarks.

You impress me as being a windbag and so full of sh!t that your eyes are brown....get over yourself and learn to listen to better men than you are so that you "may" learn something.


Oh My---now you have hurt my feelings lol! How many HOF points do you have? Have you ever won a 1K State Championship or set Range Reacords? Contrary to what some of the “Depends Set” think the knowledge of the undersigned is it more than adequate. You see it is more important to Actually Understand the cause and effect relationship of all of the processes, materials and procedures are so that when applied cumulatively and most importantly correctly will give a predictable result. Do the VAST majority of the folks on this internet chat forum do everything possible to obtain the ultimate accuracy level for every rifle they build-----we know the answer to that now don’t we? Some folks are driven to excellence others do not even know what the word means and I am not being ugly just telling the truth.

As for your comment about Ralf you cannot find your proverbial rear with both hands because you know not of what you speak literally. Since you brought it up again which you clearly should not have why don’t you give Ralf a call and find out you old Curmudgeon because that matter has been settled to all parties satisfaction.

Cheers—now can we be nice? Smiler
 
Posts: 1004 | Registered: 08 November 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jsl3170:
Yet, many high end smiths remachine the action, hence my original post.
Jeff

Remachining is a broad term and can apply to almost any change made, while blueprinting could be described as remachining on steroids.

We were taught in school that it was very desirable to remachine the receiver almost any time we rebarreled almost any rifle. AAMOF one of the very first operations they taught was the fabrication of various mandrels to aid in doing this.

We were taught that THE BARE MINIMUM required that the receiver's front-surface-to-thread-CL relationship be checked and squared as necessary for full contact around the barrel shoulder.

This is a far cry from blueprinting; blueprinting normally uses the bolt raceway CL as its Point of Beginning and then the receiver's threads, lugs, bolt face etc are all trued to that benchmark. Takes lots of time and money.

I agree that 'blueprinting' is a waste on most rifles and most shooters. However it's also a known fact that a few basic 'remachining' operations can often cut group sizes in half or better on many sporting rifles.

I have done it(remachining) as SOP on all my own rebarrel jobs since 1965. It's automatic, second nature, not even worth mentioning, like the pilot/aircraft and teamster/rig walkarounds before cranking up.

If your smith doesn't at least CHECK the receiver surfaces then IMO you should find another smith.
Regards, Joe


__________________________
You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think.
NRA Life since 1976. God bless America!
 
Posts: 2756 | Location: deep South | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
JD is in fact the one who does not know what Blue Printing an action entails or even familiar with the term-(dementia must be hell for the ole blacksmith). Sorry --- no "offence" to the late gentlemen in question and yes he was a little before my time.

BigHatWithNoCattle, perhaps you'd care to show us some of the national records YOU'VE set, the award-winning rifles YOU'VE built, the books & articles YOU'VE written? So far all we've seen is cyber-claims and tasteless braggadocio and feeble attempts to trash anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion of yourself.

Sorry Bubba, you gave yourself away when you didn't even recognize the fellow who basically
'invented' modern pillar bedding among other things. No (grin), Seeley didn't really invent pillar bedding but he WAS the one who really popularized it.

The fact that you didn't know about Seeley indicates to me that you probably don't know very much else either, certainly not enough to be worth listening to.
You have a good day now, y'hear? Joe


__________________________
You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think.
NRA Life since 1976. God bless America!
 
Posts: 2756 | Location: deep South | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of Boss Hoss
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quote:
Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
JD is in fact the one who does not know what Blue Printing an action entails or even familiar with the term-(dementia must be hell for the ole blacksmith). Sorry --- no "offence" to the late gentlemen in question and yes he was a little before my time.

BigHatWithNoCattle, perhaps you'd care to show us some of the national records YOU'VE set, the award-winning rifles YOU'VE built, the books & articles YOU'VE written? So far all we've seen is cyber-claims and tasteless braggadocio and feeble attempts to trash anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion of yourself.

Sorry Bubba, you gave yourself away when you didn't even recognize the fellow who basically
'invented' modern pillar bedding among other things. No (grin), Seeley didn't really invent pillar bedding but he WAS the one who really popularized it.

The fact that you didn't know about Seeley indicates to me that you probably don't know very much else either, certainly not enough to be worth listening to.
You have a good day now, y'hear? Joe


Sorry for not knowing who Seeley was but he is in the ground now along with many others who have helped this sport such as Pat McMillan and PO Ackley. There are accordingly folks out there who are building on the legacy that they built and as materials and processes including CNC equipment continue to proliferate the industry accuracy potential continues to improve.

So go and change your depends and powder the chaffed areas and just put me on ignore. Have looked at some of your work from pictures you have posted and the term Blacksmith covers it nicely. Would shudder to think what one of your chambering jobs looks like! Have a nice day.

There is no need to justify myself to you because quite frankly and this is not meant to hurt your feelings but you are not worth it to be honest. Your opinion of me is of no consequence however, it is good that you do enjoy your hobby and if it makes you happy then so be it.

Here I am working on a Bolt Shroud and here is the Farley Silhouette Rifle we finished this past weekend in Trinidad---just have to get it painted. Also the Jewell triggers I use for competition are Blue Printed---that should give you something to think about.

 
Posts: 1004 | Registered: 08 November 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
quote:
Originally posted by BigB:
I won a Rem Model 700 .270 win at an SCI raffle that at best would shoot a 1 3/4" 100 yard 3 shot group. Typical groups were 2 1/2" plus. It is a CDL stainless with a fluted barrel. I sent it out to a gunsmith that does a lot of accuracy work. He trued the action, pillar bedded it, tuned the trigger and recrowned. Now the same gun will shoot a 3/4" 5 shot group at 100 yards. Not sure how much the action truing helped the overall accuracy of this rifle but for the money to me it is worth it.

BigB


In my humble opinion, you got screwed. I don't know what you paid the guy to do it but you did not get a true "blueprinting" (trueing as I call it). If he used the original barrel, it is obvious that he did not true up the action threads. If he had, the original barrel would not have fit that action. There are a lot of shylocks out there, beware.


Wow! How would the rifle shoot if he hadn't got screwed? Smiler

-Eron


Eron Ahmer
Sulphur Gulch Gunsmithing
 
Posts: 112 | Location: Parker,CO | Registered: 28 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Jim,

He said in some cases such as my 700 that so little material was removed on the rethread that it did not require re threading the barrel. It did need to have the barrel reamed as an oversized recoil lug was used and he said when he squares the action with the barrel this is often the case.

I have had him work on many rifles and some he has told me in the past to not true as I was wasting my money. Mostly with Model 70 Winchesters in large calibers.

As I recall I told him to true this one as I do not like shipping rifles back and forth plus the cost of the shipping involved. He did not tell me to do it.

He has built a 222, 223, 22-250 & 6BR for me. All of them shoot into one hole with the 222 and 6BR shooting often .200 groups. The 222 is an XP100 and the 6BR is a Hall action.

Thanks for looking out for my best interest when suggesting I got "screwed" but I do not feel "screwed" by the work done on the gun or the cost. I am happy with the 270 and it shoots well with factory ammo what more could I want.

Thnaks Again.

BigB
 
Posts: 1401 | Location: Northwest Wyoming | Registered: 13 March 2001Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
quote:
Originally posted by Dewey:
You seem to be quite a "hoss's ass", sport and your lack of years of shooting experience shows here, only too well.

You recently slagged Ralf Martini, now it is Seeley Masker, who WAS "the real deal" as we with actual rifle knowledge well know and you also attack Joe, because he "dared" to correct your characteristically ignorant remarks.

You impress me as being a windbag and so full of sh!t that your eyes are brown....get over yourself and learn to listen to better men than you are so that you "may" learn something.


Oh My---now you have hurt my feelings lol! How many HOF points do you have? Have you ever won a 1K State Championship or set Range Reacords? Contrary to what some of the “Depends Set” think the knowledge of the undersigned is it more than adequate. You see it is more important to Actually Understand the cause and effect relationship of all of the processes, materials and procedures are so that when applied cumulatively and most importantly correctly will give a predictable result. Do the VAST majority of the folks on this internet chat forum do everything possible to obtain the ultimate accuracy level for every rifle they build-----we know the answer to that now don’t we? Some folks are driven to excellence others do not even know what the word means and I am not being ugly just telling the truth.

As for your comment about Ralf you cannot find your proverbial rear with both hands because you know not of what you speak literally. Since you brought it up again which you clearly should not have why don’t you give Ralf a call and find out you old Curmudgeon because that matter has been settled to all parties satisfaction.

Cheers—now can we be nice? Smiler


No, we will not ...be nice... as I do not waste my good humour on a jackass with a big mouth, large bald spot and ponderous paunch who gratuitously attacks others here without cause.

I probably am older than you, certainly far more erudite and if that is your picture; I am also much more youthful in appearance and much fitter. This, may have to do with a lifetime spent in the mountains of BC where one soon learns about real hunting rifles.

Frankly, my impression is that you struggle with basic English prose, attempting to appear literate; while trying to convince yourself that you are some hot sh!t by slagging others here.

Ralf phoned me a couple of days after your totally unwarranted attack upon him here and I am well aware that he did you the courtesy of calling and sorting things out.My point was that you seem to attack first and THEN, when shown to be wrong, you post some drivel and expect others to accept it.

I have never claimed to have set ...state... records, I am a Canadian and not very interested in American target shooting. I would point out, that this thread concerns HUNTING rifle accuracy and I am quite familiar with that, having just returned from my range with several targets with sub-moa groups from my P-64-Alaskans in .338WM, my Oberndorf Type B in 9.3x62 and my Merkel 12-12-9.3x74R, all with Nosler Pts. at max. safe loads.

You may well be one hell of a machinist, but, you need to either learn some manners or grow up, maybe some of both, eh?
 
Posts: 2366 | Location: "Land OF Shining Mountains"- British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 20 August 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of Boss Hoss
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dewey:
quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
quote:
Originally posted by Dewey:
You seem to be quite a "hoss's ass", sport and your lack of years of shooting experience shows here, only too well.

You recently slagged Ralf Martini, now it is Seeley Masker, who WAS "the real deal" as we with actual rifle knowledge well know and you also attack Joe, because he "dared" to correct your characteristically ignorant remarks.

You impress me as being a windbag and so full of sh!t that your eyes are brown....get over yourself and learn to listen to better men than you are so that you "may" learn something.


Oh My---now you have hurt my feelings lol! How many HOF points do you have? Have you ever won a 1K State Championship or set Range Reacords? Contrary to what some of the “Depends Set” think the knowledge of the undersigned is it more than adequate. You see it is more important to Actually Understand the cause and effect relationship of all of the processes, materials and procedures are so that when applied cumulatively and most importantly correctly will give a predictable result. Do the VAST majority of the folks on this internet chat forum do everything possible to obtain the ultimate accuracy level for every rifle they build-----we know the answer to that now don’t we? Some folks are driven to excellence others do not even know what the word means and I am not being ugly just telling the truth.

As for your comment about Ralf you cannot find your proverbial rear with both hands because you know not of what you speak literally. Since you brought it up again which you clearly should not have why don’t you give Ralf a call and find out you old Curmudgeon because that matter has been settled to all parties satisfaction.

Cheers—now can we be nice? Smiler


No, we will not ...be nice... as I do not waste my good humour on a jackass with a big mouth, large bald spot and ponderous paunch who gratuitously attacks others here without cause.

I probably am older than you, certainly far more erudite and if that is your picture; I am also much more youthful in appearance and much fitter. This, may have to do with a lifetime spent in the mountains of BC where one soon learns about real hunting rifles.

Frankly, my impression is that you struggle with basic English prose, attempting to appear literate; while trying to convince yourself that you are some hot sh!t by slagging others here.

Ralf phoned me a couple of days after your totally unwarranted attack upon him here and I am well aware that he did you the courtesy of calling and sorting things out.My point was that you seem to attack first and THEN, when shown to be wrong, you post some drivel and expect others to accept it.

I have never claimed to have set ...state... records, I am a Canadian and not very interested in American target shooting. I would point out, that this thread concerns HUNTING rifle accuracy and I am quite familiar with that, having just returned from my range with several targets with sub-moa groups from my P-64-Alaskans in .338WM, my Oberndorf Type B in 9.3x62 and my Merkel 12-12-9.3x74R, all with Nosler Pts. at max. safe loads.

You may well be one hell of a machinist, but, you need to either learn some manners or grow up, maybe some of both, eh?



quote:
Originally posted by Dewey:
First, what possible concern of a Yankee like you is what we Canadians do in OUR country?

Your characteristic arrogance and "continentalist" attitude as in your sneer at "your game" is WHY many Canadians, especially here in BC do not want you here, hunting, fishing or whatever. But, who cares as I am not into further discussion on this issue here at this time.

It is not your affair, however, my family pioneered in Alberta starting in the 1880s and into the 1890s, not long after we settled here in BC. We, along with other Canadians OWN BC, Alberta and every square inch of Canada including the Northwest Passage outright and WE have the RIGHT to share our resources among ourselves, as WE see fit, get it?

I also worked for Alberta Environment, Alberta Forest Service and qualified as a "resident" there and have been asked to return to my former position, thus, ensuring "residency" status.

Simply put, I am as welcome to hunt Alberta, under her current laws, as Albertans are to fish in BC, as thousands do every year.


You really do not understand do you? Being of French descent makes you rude as well as smelling bad so your personality issues are understandable. patriot You really should do a little more thinking before you post as the accuracy requirement for a “hunting” rifle at the ranges you shoot are dinner plate size. Those rifles you listed are definitely 100 yard or 100 meter rifles as you say in Kanada. Even my short range rifles are zeroed for 300 yards not meters moi petite cochon.
 
Posts: 1004 | Registered: 08 November 2005Reply With Quote
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As the original poster I want to chime in: it absolutely pisses me off to no end when a thread goes totally off track from the original topic and winds up a pissing match.

I'm glad to read opinions but at this time would everyone please go back to their corners? If we can't have an open discussion without hostility then perhaps we should stamp this thread closed.

Thanks,

Jeff
 
Posts: 2267 | Location: Maine | Registered: 03 May 2007Reply With Quote
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Certainly, I typed a comment as you were posting and posted it; however, I have deleted it and will not further engage BH. Sorry, for disturbing your thread, probably should have just ignored him.
 
Posts: 2366 | Location: "Land OF Shining Mountains"- British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 20 August 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of kcstott
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jsl3170:
As the original poster I want to chime in: it absolutely pisses me off to no end when a thread goes totally off track from the original topic and winds up a pissing match.

I'm glad to read opinions but at this time would everyone please go back to their corners? If we can't have an open discussion without hostility then perhaps we should stamp this thread closed.

Thanks,

Jeff


Welcome to the AR board Big Grin pissers stir


www.KLStottlemyer.com

Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
As the original poster I want to chime in: it absolutely pisses me off to no end when a thread goes totally off track from the original topic and winds up a pissing match.

Yep it is a shame but it will continue to happen. The ignore functions works great. Big Grin


As usual just my $.02
Paul K
 
Posts: 12881 | Location: Mexico, MO | Registered: 02 April 2001Reply With Quote
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We are short a few horse heads.
 
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