What's the general distance from the front of the stock. I'm trying to figure out what size to order.
-Don

Don, is your stock length already set?

If not, I would establish the length of the forearm by using the "Golden Ratio" of approx 1.62. For example, if your barrel length was 24", divide this by 1.62 to get the length of the barrel beyond the stock, or 14.81". The forearm length is then the remainder, or 9.19 inches. I'd then put the sling swivel band right at the midpoint of the barrel.

If your forearm length is already established at the midpoint of the barrel, as is often the case, I would only go forward enough to ensure functional clearance of the swivel. I've seen many that look odd with the barrel band swivel way too far forward on the barrel.

It's just a matter aesthetics though, so do what looks right to you.

montea-

your post is one of the best I have read on AR.

I use the Golden Mean in so much of what I do. Even when looking back at things-both gun related and not-that I made before I knew what the Golden Mean was showed that most of my
"all time favorites" were made according to the rule.

These are the types of conversations custom gunmakers need to be having.

Don-

as montea says, it all depends on the size of the other portions of the rifle. most of mine work out to somewhere around 3+" in front of the fore arm. This will be close to the midpoint of the barrel that Monte mentions. I look at the bare barrel portion from the end of the forearm tip to the muzzle, and calculate off of that number. I do not always follow the Golden Mean down to the thousandth of an inch on th estud, but I am always pretty close to it. It all depends on the relationship of the parts. The way the butt is shaped has a big impact on where you locate the swivel, as does the grip shapeforearm shape, barrel diameter, presence or absense of sights, etc.

Not too long ago I was trying to find the best place to locate the front sling stirrup on a Mannlicher stock. I measuered the length of the barrel sticking out from the reciever, and then measuerd back from the muzzle using the Golden Mean. It was exactly the impact I wanted.

I see many people make Mannlicher stocks and put the sling right in the middle of the barrel. These always jump out at me (in a BAD way!) as soon as my eyes hit the fore arm.

In the process of deciding where to locate the recent Mannlicher swivel, I measured pictures of Mannlichers that I liked. Do you wanna guess what the ratio was? Yep, it was right on the Golden Mean. And I made all of the measurements before I even thought about calculating my stirrup with this guideline. The rifles that were the most artisically balanced had the Golden Mean all over them, and subconciously they seemed to be the prettiest to me. It really reinforced my belief in the rule.

Thanks Marc. By the way, here's a good link for anybody unfamiliar with the concept:

Wilkipedia

I first learned of in a small book titled, "Journal of Historical Armsmaking Technology." I got that little book about 15 years ago when I was still forging knives.

The little book gives some good info on the way the earliest Americans made flintlocks. There is a chapter on the historical styling of rifles, as well as a discussion Baroque and Rococo styles. A great littel book for anyone interested in early American gunmaking and styling of historicla and modern guns.

Boy you guys are ahead of me, using algbraic equations. I am still trying to figure which size hammer is best.
But I believe will try it as I have a barrel band to install.

Ok, you learn something new everyday, which is why I come here. So with a little figuring in my head, this one should be ok after I taper the inside to match the barrel as if should slide back about 1" of so? (guess because I've never done this before)


But this one needs a smaller one because after tapering it probably won't have the clearance? But the final location should only be slightly ahead of this location because of the short barrel?

-Don

Yes, to me the top one is too close to the muzzle and the bottom one is too clsoe to the fore arm itp.

I used the 'Golden Ration' to determine the forend length on this rifle. I liked the look but I didn't like the 24.75" barrel length.



Here's the same rifle with the barrel cut to 21" and the barrel band added. I didn't trim the forend to get the ratio back.

I wanted the band close to the forend but far enough away so the sking swivel wouldn't contact the forend. I'm very happy with look.

Mauser98,

I liked the original rifle better but I understand a shorter barrel might be handier for you. That said, I think you should cut the ebony tip off, shorten the forend two inches and then glue the ebony back on and reshape. It will look more balanced especially with the barrel band.

Don,

I agree the band needs to be closer to the stock on #1 and farther away on #2. But, you are off to a good start. Those will look nice when you're done.

I'd worry about your wiring before I'd give much thought to swivels

One of the advantages of the barrel band mount for slings is that it reduces the amount of barrel above one's shoulder and head. Therefore, besides looking good, the barrel should not protrude above your head. Kudude

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
I'd worry about your wiring before I'd give much thought to swivels

That's funny, only because I'm a electrician! That's the last thing I want to do after a long day at work.
-Don

On the Shnabel f-end, I would probably suffer it where it is.

On the other, This is close to where I would put it: (maybe a fraction futher back)

That's kind of what I was thinking, too. I think I can bore the inside out to get it back that far and not hat is turn out too thin. I hope. And thanks for cropping out my wiring!
-Don

I spent a little time at the lathe and I think it looks better. I can't go any farther back or it will be too thin.
-Don

LooKs good to me, time to glue it in place!

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i312/snapbox/H2-1.jpg

rule of thumb, functionally....

EITHER 2" in front of the tip of the stock,
or 1/2 of the length of the barrel, -1, from the muzzle.

indiana, in 1897, said pi=3.2, which is roughly 2x phi

phi is very important... and 1.618 is easy enough to remember
jeffe