The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing 30-06 won't shoot heavy bulletsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have a Kimber Montana 8400 in .30-06. I checked function and general accuracy with my practice load, which uses cheap 150 grain Remingtion soft points. Suprisingly it shot five shot groups around an inch (some under and some just over). After making sure it was a decent shooter I got to modifying. I had the barrel cut back to 20" and NECG Masterpiece iron sights added. Then I had it coated in teflon. When it came back from coating I had the action and chamber area bedded. The rest of the stock is free-floated. I added a 2.5-10x scope in quick release Weaver mounts and called it my all-around Alaska gun. I went back and shot it with the 150 grain soft point loads and it still shoots awesome groups. I shot my reduced recoil/small game loads with 150 grain soft points and SR 4759 and it shoots those to less than an inch at 25 yards, which is acceptable for my small game hunting. Then I went to my moose and bear loads and it started to fall apart. I've tried RL-22, RL-19, RL-17, RL-15, Varget, and H4198 with 180 grain Swift A-Frames, 180 grain TSX, 180 grain Nosler, 200 TSX, and 200 Swift A-Frames. Accuracy hovers around 2" at 100 yards. I know that's probably pretty acceptable for hunting bear and moose, but I also hunt mountain goat out to 300 yards and an extrapolated 6" group at that range won't cut it. I'm thinking of full length bedding the barrel. My thoughts are that the light profile barrel is seeing greater harmonics with the heavier bullets and it might need to be dampened. I've tried a pressure pad at the end and it helped slightly, but not enough to be significant. Has anyone done this and seen an accuracy increase with heavier bullets? Any other suggestions? "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it." | ||
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what's the twist? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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1:10. That should be sufficient for 200's and definitely 180's. My wife's gun is a Kimber Montana 300 WSM with the same twist and it shoots the 180's and 200's just fine. Her go-to bear round is a 200 TSX. "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it." | |||
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3 suggestions: Check the twist rate of your barrel, should be 10" for good results but 12" should be OK too. Use 4350 or 4895 powder. I use both IMR and H with good results, but not interchangeably. Run a 'ladder' comparison test at the longest range available to you. IMO a light-profile barrel fully bedded in a wood stock in much of Alaska would be a case of creating conditions leading to a change in POI. IOW when the forearm wood changes moisture content then it will move, and thereby also move the barrel along with it. Do you use a shooting sling? A fully-bedded barrel will frequently move its POI in response to pressure from the sling or the shooter's hand or both. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to be working up some new loads in another week or so and I think I have some 4350 on hand so I'll give it a go. I'm not sure I have 4895. The Montana has a synthetic stock. I don't use a shooting sling; I shoot with a medium grip on the forearm from all positions. I've also ordered some North Fork 180's and I'm going to try those. "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it." | |||
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Try this approach for load development. Calls this advice for the semi serious reloader a few steps back from fanatic. I try to settle on a few powders for all my needs. I & H 4350, RL 15, Varget, I & H 4895 are some good all around choices. I then check a couple of different manuals and start at the lowest minimum and load 1 round each working up in ½ grain increments to the highest of the listed book maximums. After each shot fired, I check for bolt stickiness, flattened primers, ejector marks or any other anomaly. If I see any signs of pressure prior to getting to the highest book max, I note it and then I drop back 1 full grain and consider this “Safe Max” for that rifle. If there are no signs of pressure then I use the highest book max as Safe Max. Then starting at 1 grain under Safe Max I load 3 rounds each in .2 grain increments up to Safe Max. This equals 6 different loads. On a 100 yard range, starting with a clean barrel, I fire two fouling shots and let the rifle cool. I then fire the 18 rounds letting the rifle cool between each shot. I have six different targets dots up and I shoot 1 round of each load at its particular target dot (or aiming point) from the light load to the heavy load and then reverse the order so there is uniformity of barrel fouling until I have fired all 18 rounds. You will usually find a point where the groups tighten up then loosen up. I then use the smallest group as my hunting load. This in my mind is a little easier than the ladder method at 200 yards because the ladder method assumes a “perfect hold” by the shooter on every shot. For Barnes I seat 50/1000 of the lands and for everything else 10/1000 off the lands but always with at least 90% of caliber length of the bullet shank excluding the boattail seated in the neck. Of course the cartridge must also fit in the magazine box. You didn't say what Nolser's you were shooting. If there are the accubonds start with those other wise I would start with the the TSXs. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I got my problem solved, so I thought I'd post a follow up. I changed several things, so I can't really point to any one thing that gave me better accuracy. - Bedded the tang, lug, and all of the barrel with Steelbed - Picked up some 180 grain North Fork bullets - Used Norma brass instead of Remington because the Norma was what I used with the accurate 150 grain loads - Loaded up some rounds with 57.0 grains of H4350 and 56.0 grains of IMR4350 The Hodgon gave me a five shot group of 1.21" and the IMR 0.923". I'm going to check the velocity of the IMR loads this weekend and try them at 200 and 300 yards. Thank you to everyone that offered advice. "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it." | |||
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