The typical 3 jaw is often beat to a pulp why the 4 jaw for the same lathe will be in near new condition. All it takes is some one to spend a little while learning to use it.
Some old men will just leave a 4 jaw on their lathes because they can no longer swap chucks.

quote:

Originally posted by WoodHunter:
Aww guys arguing on a internet forum is butting heads that really does not get you anywhere:



Even P.O. Ackley kept it simple sometimes. Take a close look: Horrors, a three Jaw Chuck:


And the lowly 9x24 South Bend, darn nearly 100 years old, may be used to chamber a barrel:

I see this thread is back from the dead. I just got a Monarch model 612 20x78 last month. Great old machine.

I have a Southbend 10". It has A Navy Department tag on it. I saw the same machne on the submarine moored in San Francisco. It is too short to outside turn a barrel. I have the 3 and 4-jaw chucks. Also a bunch of collets, which I never use. I did buy a quick change tool rest from MSC. It is the Chinese made Aloris knock off, "Phase 2" is the branding. This is far-far better than the old Armstrong tool rests. I have the the steady. The lathe also has a spider. It works well for most of what I need to do. Besides guns I also do a fair bit of gas engine conversion for giant scale RC planes. You can make prop hubs if you think it through.

I used to go the local junior colledge to do gun projects. Their machines were much nicer than mine. They had gobs of machines and tooling. All of it was all first rate. They destroyed the machine shop several years ago. It was very sad. Many of the machines were damage or destroyed. Tooling was given away. Look for school machine shops being liquidated. Most professional shops are not doing a lot of CNC work, irrelevent to the hobbiest, this makes old machines a bargain.

Machines much smaller than 10" become less usefull for gun work. Much larger and they become less accurate. You definately need the large bore headstock and spider for chamber work. You could use the steady but it requires a longer bed. I used to have a 15x56 gear head lathe. It was a brute but, did not cut threads as nice.

To get your feet wet I suggest taking a machine shop class at you local junior colledge. You can work on many types of machines. From that you can figure out what you want.

Final tidbit....You want the motor to be compatable with your house hold wiring. Some industrial machines have different phase and will require a converter. I made an extension cord that plugs into my clothes dryer plug.

Nice set up Woodhunter. The tail stock on my lathe is a thing of beauty. Two speeds, pressure oil lube and a live center ram. I find myself just looking at the lathe, it is hard to believe we used to make equipment like this.

I maybe shouldn't speak up but would like to offer some advice that may be of some value to you. I first got an atlas 10 x 36, learned enough to know that's not what I needed , Then got a 13 x 36 clausing colchester , a little large but will do anything I need to do, in meantime found a quick change 12" craftman used it a little , kept the clausing , sold the 12 but ran across a 9" jet that I like also, Now about the money part I am in no way trying to discourage you from getting a lathe , I have never had A tool that I have enjoyed more and I never lost any money on the lathes I sold, but what I have learned is that if your only reason for having the lathe is for barreling a rifle , there a people out there that will do the job cheaper than you can rent the tooling, but I realize there is great satisfaction in I DUN IT MYSELF, also lot of sadness in turning a $300.00 blank into a tomato stake.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Mike, it is a lightweight machine with a big D1-5 nose on the spindle. No way I would wrestle D1-5 tooling.

The weight of a chuck is determined by it's size not method of attachment. An 8" 4 jaw will weigh within a few ounces whether screw on, d1-4 etc.

Wallyw

Have you researched weights? You may want to do that.
They make the DE1-5 for larger chucks than the D1-4 and the D1-3.

It appears that lathe preferences are just like cartridge, rifle, truck, and dog preferences. Not only does everyone have their own favorite but they defend their choice with all the emotion of a scorned woman (apologies, in advance, to the women who frequent the site; scorned or not).
The truth is, there is an abundance of good, servicable lathes available today. Although the fine quality, classic machines are hard to find, there are a lot of affordable lathes offered by various companies.
Gunsmiths and hobbyists have been getting by for years with lathes in the 12x36 to 14x40 range and such machines still do fine work. At home, I have been using a Taiwanese 13x40, belt-drive lathe for thirty years. During this time, I have also used a bunch of larger and smaller lathes in both manual and computer controlled types. My feeling is, if the lathe is accurate and performs as required, it is a good lathe regardless of brand or type.
Larger lathes (ie. 16 inch plus) are great in many respects but are awkward to use for some work. In addition, the aforemention chuck changing problems are a real consideration; especially as time marches on. A ten inch four jaw is heavy enough to handle.
A lathe with a headstock which is too long is difficult to use for barrel work. A tailstock which is too heavy is laborious to use in chmbering.
Anyway, it makes little sense to buy more machine than you need. If you find a deal which is too good to pass up though, buy yourself an engine hoist at the same time.
The accuracy of the spindle is determined mostly by the bearings. The accuracy of the machine as a whole is detmined by numerous factors not the least of which is set-up. Whatever you buy, get to know the machine intimately. Understand it's strengths and shortcomings and how to take advantage on the one hand and work around on the other.
If you are looking at a used machine, look at the leadscrew and check for slop in the half-nut. Also check for slop in the crossfeed and compound feed. All lathes will have a certain amount of lost motion but if the handwheel turns a half-revolution before the cross slide starts to move, there may be more wear than you want to deal with. You don't necessarily want to get to know your lathe by making new parts for it.
An early mentor of mine told me to avoid gap bed lathes because they were more flexible and if the gap was removed, it would never be perfectly aligned again. It wasn't too many years later that I learned he was, at least in part, full of it. Gap beds may be weaker but they are still strong enough. they are usually designed around the gap. Also, when removing and replacing, you line up the gap if required. Part of being a machinist. In other words, don't avoid a lathe just because it has a gap bed. Again, if it can do good work, it is a good lathe. Regards Bill.

I don't want to get in the "discussion" but offer my opinion of a good lathe,an 11" to 14" swing Logan. 11" & up have 1-3/8" thru holes, steel not zymak gears & parts like Atlas,V bedways, mine came in great shape,well tooled with a 5C collet closer w/collets, steady & follow rest, a 3 & 4 jaw chuck on a very nice 3 drawer, 1 door cabinet. For $800. I have a huge American Pacemaker, a 14x60 American, a 16c48 Enterprise, a 13" heavy SB & several small precision lathes & a 10" Atlas.But the 11" Logan is ideal for gum work IMHO. Support & parts are somewhat available from Logan. Just the right size for gun work. If you can get a Buck tru-adjust chuck & a DRO or travel dial all the better. I like LeBlonds too & just sold a 19" that was 11'long. Good luck!

You got it Butch! Some us old beatup vets find installing heavy chucks a real pain.

So like you say we use the smallest we can get away with. Weight is just not determined by type of mounting.

Provided the machine isn't completely ready for the scrap pile, skill level of the operator will always be the the biggest variable in this discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Wally,When you attain an age of 71yrs and have had 5 neck and back surgeries, you will understand. I use collets, a small 4 jaw, and a 3 Jaw on my 6913 Clausing. I have a 6 jaw Tru Adjust chuck that I no longer use because of the weight and the LOO attachment. A D1 chuck is easier to attach to the lathe, but a D1-5 is just too heavy. Now in the olden days as a youth I unloaded box car loads of sheetrock, 18 wheelers loaded with brick, and worked a jack hammer. You end up paying for it. No, we didn't use forklifts. I didn't learn that it made not a bit of difference in the big picture about how much I could do physically.
I have a couple Grandsons that can help if I plan in advance. Not as hard for me as I do what I want to when I want to.

I feel your pain Butch though I'm still youngster though a pretty beat up one. Turning 67 on 5 May.

When I sold my little ranch and big shop some years back was glad to say good bye to 10" 3Jaw and 12" 4Jaws. Now do fine with 6 inch 3Jaw and 8 inch 4Jaw. And my newly added collet chuck.

No longer store chucks where I have to bend over much to get at them

Semper Fi,

WallyW

Butch

You aroused my curiosity so the other day I pulled the 6" 3 jaw Pratt Burnerd L-00 chuck off my 5914 Clausing and weighed it. It was about 23 pounds. I must be a glutton for punishment because I am constantly changing from 3 jaw to 4 jaw chucks and 5-C/ER32 collet arrangments too.

For barrel work I still like through the headstock with a 4 jaw chuck and spider. I use a soft piece of large copper wire in the 4 jaw to give the barrel ability to pivot.

If you want to sell your 6 jaw adjust tru chuck let me know.

I'm 67 and am feeling the results of working on the line crew for Texas Electric for years. I just about ruined my back and other joints from over doing it. Thank the Lord I have dodged surgery.

This is a good bit off topic but
Scota4570's post saying he has a
Navy tag on his lathe reminded me of
my small mill with goverment tag.
It's a K&T 3CH ram type. The tag says
"In 1952 this machine cost $24,489.00"