As I've stated in other posts, I am new to the Upland style of hunting. My research thus far has been truly eye opening.
I have never hunted over a flushing style of dog at all, or real far ranging pointers for that matter. I'm wondering what personal experiences you guys have that differentiate the pointers vs. flushers.
I am specifically talking about hunting exclusively with one vs the other, not having a pointer to find the birds, and then a flusher jumping them. Is one style more relaxed than the other? From what I've seen on the net (a championship run of flushing trial dogs vs the clock), the flushers seem to be go getters and the hunting looks a bit fast and furious, but this may not be the case in real life.
I'm also trying to gin up some conversation in this forum, so please be long winded, and post often.

As I'm researching the pointing labs and such, it has occurred to me that maybe I need a lab and an English Setter. You know, the same way, I need a 7mm08 and a 7mm mag, 12 gauge and 20 gauge. After all, we used to have one cat (a predetermined limit set by me) and now we have 3.

Posted this thought elsewhere...

I have always had pointing dogs...I train them to point and be steady....then I train them to flush on command. This nothing new...most of the walking trials in Europe are conducted this way. Braces search, point and back...the gunner positions and commands the pointing dog to flush...the dog flushes the bird and sits on the flush...retrieves on command.

You get both...practical when you don't want to wade into the cattails or the multiflora to flush the bird yourself.

My family always used flushers in Saskatchewan for retrieving waterfowl and hunting pheasants. When I moved to Alberta, I started hunting much more open country and decided a pointer was the way to go. We ended up getting a DD and have had no regrets. He is trained to hold the point while the hunter walks up and flushes the bird. That is the way pointers are typically trained here where the country is realatively open and dry. Guessing from your location, a pointer trained to flush on command might be a better option. I'm guessing you'd have to deal with cover heavy enough to limit the locations you could get a shot off from, not to mention the water and dense vegetation to deal with.

As for which type is more relaxing to hunt with, I'm not sure. My knee jerk reaction is to say flushers simply because they seem easier to keep an eye on than far ranging pointers. I'm seemingly forever paying attention to something other than the dog when I notice the bell on his collar has stopped ringing. Then I have to find which hollow or bush he is locked up on point in. I don't mind this when I'm hunting him, but we run him at a couple of places in the city with good partridge populations. Great training, but it can be a pain. Sometimes, especially in winter when it's dark, he just disappears and I'm loath to call him off a point just so I can get home a few minutes sooner.

Dean

Let me start by saying that I am not a pointer guy. I currently have two field springers and am totally in love with the breed. I have hunted over some pointers and have never been to impressed except for one gwp. The other pointers ran so far ahead and jumped birds way beyond shooting range that I swore that I would never have one. That kind of thing is fine for trials and pen raised birds but in the real world of wild birds I can't see that it works very well. I realize that the dogs were not well trained and might done a better job if they were but I personally don't like having a dog more than about 30 yards in front if me. The gwp that I hunted over was a well trained dog and didn't range very far and was a real joy to hunt over. He made some great retrieves and had plenty of staying power and hunted hard every day. After hunting over him I was almost convinced to switch over to a pointer. Hunting over flushers Is a different ball game. They work closer, retrieve better in the field and water, And handle the weather better than the short haired pointers. As you can see I am quite biased in favor of the flushers especially the springers. They are dynamic hunters that can be used in many hunting situations I have hunted everything from ducks to chuckers in 5 states with mine and they have excelled in every situation. With the exception of geese and very ruff water(they just aren't big enough do do it safely) And that is where my chessie comes into play. Although springers work for mountain grouse(ruffs,Francklin,blue) and I hunt them quite a bit I feel That a very close working pointer would be better in the thick grouse woods. These are just my opinions for what they are worth. You will find that hunting dogs are like guns in that everyone has their own opinion. Whatever dog that you choose make sure that you get one from a good breeder! And remember you only get out of a dog what you put in.
P.S Don't assume that a dog with a lot of "trial" champions is going to be a good hunting dog. Trials are not hunting. Check out some hunt tests in your area and talk to the people you can find a lot of good info.

quote:

Originally posted by maki:


As for which type is more relaxing to hunt with, I'm not sure. My knee jerk reaction is to say flushers simply because they seem easier to keep an eye on than far ranging pointers.
Dean

I would say just the opposite I think a pointer would give more time to get ready for the shot. with my springers you have to be on your toes because they flush hard.

The OP question actually points to many considerations of the fundamental traits of particular breeds. Typically, flushing dogs are more hyper. Think about cocker spaniels. They are known for peeing in the house when excited. Many breeds are known for having certain characteristics that you not enjoy. GSP's run large when hunting. Many people lose their GSP's because the dog runs for miles. Certain breeds are much harder to reign in and train to hunt close.

We have Brittanies. In addition to being great field partners, they are GREAT family pets. They love people in general and kids in particular. They are very tolerate of kids pulling and tugging. More Brittanies are Dual Champions than any other breed.

They are easily trained. When I say easy to train, I refer to obedience and field trial type training, not hunting training. Good blood lines of Britts will point at 4 weeks old, and later will retrieve easily, and work the wind automatically. The first time our female Britt pup worked the wind ( ran straight downwind of the hunting area, then criss crossed back up wind hunting for the scent), she was 4 months old and had no training.

The key is to buy good bloodlines. The better the instinct and drive, the more pleasurable the hunt. You can't teach the drive to hunt. The dog must have it from birth.

Our Britts hunt dove, quail, pheasant, and retrieve waterfowl.

If the birds are holding. our Britts will stay on point. If the birds are running, the dogs follow. Hunting with friends with other breeds, I've seen their dog go on point, the bird moves, but the dog stays put. Hunter gets there and there is no bird to shoot. This morning, their dogs were pointing feathers without any birds in the bush; wasting time. A couple birds were shot down, but not dead. Their dogs never retrieved the wounded birds because the birds were fighting and trying to fly away. Our female dove right in past 2 dogs and grabbed the bird in the bush and brought to me. The other time, she snatched the bird in the air as it was trying to fly away half crippled; the other dogs just stood there not sure what to do. When we hunt with other people, I tell them if they knock the bird down and it tries to get up to fly away, don't shoot again, let the dog get it. Once I tell our dogs to "Get the bird", if it is wounded, they will bring it back.

Another good breed is the pointing lab, although there are not a lot of them. The main problem is there is no guarantee that your lab will point since it is the submissive gene. Also, labs are more prone to hip and joint problems.

We have a litter of Britt pups due in a few weeks. Strong hunting desire in both stud and dam. We waited for hunting season to breed her so the unborn pups would get the hormones and adrenaline released during the hunt.

We'll be selling our puppies for $600
AKC registered, health guaranteed, and guaranteed to have a nose to hunt. 5 generations of Field Champions and Best of Breed Champ

I now have my second pointing lab, and I absolutely love them! My buddy has a German Shorthair who hunts wider and bigger. His dog will cover three times the gound my lab does, but I love the company of a lab and they definetly get the job done. Plus, they hunt closer and don't bump birds out of range.

As far as flusher vs pointer goes, I don't believe there is a finer sight than a dog that does a 180, then locks on point!

You can call me lazy I think I've lived long enough to earn the title, but I can not see me walking if the dog will do that for me. I changed over to pointing dogs 20 years ago & have not regretted it once, it is nice to have a dog that will range into all the little spots that otherwise I would need to walk to with a flushing dog. This practice is for naught if your pointer does not point & hold birds reliably so to allow you the time to stroll up to their point without bumping the bird.

Pointers vs Flushers......

This is exactly why "pointing labs" are the best of both worlds... they can "point" with the same intensity of any breed and if they "bump/flush" birds, those birds will most likely be in shotgun range!

shorthair,

I'm lazy too....but I have no problem "sending" my pointing labs down a gully or up a hillside that I'm too lazy to walk.

I love all good bird dogs

As as "PS"....

BIG running pointers are alot of fun when you are 20-40 years old..

Once you have lost a step or two...labs are a lot of fun

I can't go with PL's. This year in North Dakota, the bird count was down...by half. Having a dog that can get out 200 yds and find the birds rather than me having to walk up a whole section is far better. Everyone should have the dog they want...I'm not trying to dis anybodies dog...but there are conditions under which having a dog that goes and finds the birds is just plain better.

Good pointing dogs don't bump birds...almost NEVER!!! I have one that will locate a running pheasant for as long as the bird runs and will never rush or bump the bird...if the bird will crouch, she will point it no matter how long she has worked it..same with any other bird.

Get what you need and what you're comfortable with, but good pointing dogs don't cost you shots at birds.

It depends on a lot of things. Are you hunting wide open country or tight cover? What birds are you after? Are you hunting in the heat of the south or the cold midwestern states?

I've got a 14 year old pointer that is retired from many years in the field. He's hunted pheasant in the midwest, grouse in the northeast and quail in the south. He could flat out find birds and when the tailgate drops the bullshit stops...you'd better have your running shoes on! He's never been much of a retriever, but I considered that secondary to finding birds as I don't recall losing any birds due to him not delivering them to hand, he'd parade around with the bird in his mouth for a few seconds and onto the next bird. His strong points are that he put up numbers and was an honest pointer. To some peoples disbelief pointers make excellent family dogs and do well in the house. My dad has had many dogs in his lifetime and Gunner is the "once in a lifetime" dog, as they are both retired they watch the news and eat breakfast with eachother every morning with gunner in my dads lap...the dog is spoiled to death. The drawbacks to hunting with a pointer are that they tend to be more focused on the hunt rather than the hunter. They can be hard headed and stubborn at times, require a little bit more of a firm hand than a lab or golden retriever. Some people that are used to hunting with flushing dogs get intimidated by the range of some pointers, it wasn't all that rare for my pointer to range 6-800 yards in open country. I know it took some getting used to for me having hunted over mostly labs and my golden before getting a pointer, hunting with a few experienced pointer people eased my mind that this was a normal way to hunt for this breed.

I've probably killed every bit as many bird in a season with my lab or my old golden, they all have their own strengths.

Just my observations, but here is how I would break it down.

Pheasant-winner goes to the flushing breeds, phesant like to run and can make pointers go crazy. A hard charging springer or lab is hard to beat on pheasant, they also are better at digging the cripples out of the thick stuff in my experience.

Quail-winner goes to the pointers, English Pointers in particular. Flushing dogs can't cover the amount of ground it takes to hunt quail, nor would they be ideal if they could. Quail generally hold good for a pointer and theres no advantage to having a covey bust out on the dog 20 yards ahead of you when you can walk right up to a point and have them still give you a heart attack!

Grouse-I call it a draw. In my grouse hunting experiences, the challenge of hunting grouse isn't necessarily finding them, but getting a good shot at one is a challenge. It is a numbers game, put enough grouse in the air and eventually you will get one that flys through a 2 foot opening while you don't have a thorn sticking you in the eye and your arms aren't tangled in vines and you make the luckiest hip shot of your life.....it happens. One thing I've noticed about grouse is that you can walk right past them, looking right at them and if you keep on walking they don't do anything, but if you were to stop walking for a few seconds they will flush. I think that the range the pointing dogs have to stay in to hunt grouse kinda makes them the flushing dogs equal.

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan27:




Just my observations, but here is how I would break it down.

Pheasant-winner goes to the flushing breeds, phesant like to run and can make pointers go crazy. A hard charging springer or lab is hard to beat on pheasant, they also are better at digging the cripples out of the thick stuff in my experience.

Quail-winner goes to the pointers, English Pointers in particular. Flushing dogs can't cover the amount of ground it takes to hunt quail, nor would they be ideal if they could. Quail generally hold good for a pointer and theres no advantage to having a covey bust out on the dog 20 yards ahead of you when you can walk right up to a point and have them still give you a heart attack!

Grouse-I call it a draw. In my grouse hunting experiences, the challenge of hunting grouse isn't necessarily finding them, but getting a good shot at one is a challenge. It is a numbers game, put enough grouse in the air and eventually you will get one that flys through a 2 foot opening while you don't have a thorn sticking you in the eye and your arms aren't tangled in vines and you make the luckiest hip shot of your life.....it happens. One thing I've noticed about grouse is that you can walk right past them, looking right at them and if you keep on walking they don't do anything, but if you were to stop walking for a few seconds they will flush. I think that the range the pointing dogs have to stay in to hunt grouse kinda makes them the flushing dogs equal.

I think your break down is right on track. With grouse hunting I'm not sure if a pointer or a flusher would be better. I hunt grouse with springers and the challenge is getting in a position for a shot. I'm starting to think that a very close working pointer that looks up trees would be the best. I have been hunting with a friends Brittney and she looks up trees the only problem is she is doing it 70 yards away.

It really does depend on the cover, and the birds you hunt. A big runing English pointer is useless in the cat tails, and a heavy lab breaks down in minutes on an early, warm, sharptail hunt.

Figure out what you hunt, and how you like to hunt, and go from there. For me, there is nothing better than having the dog lock up on a covey of huns 30 yards out, and walking in for the flush. A flusher would get me no birds and a bad mood.... JMO, Dutch.

I totally agree with Dutch. Alot of it depends on your hunting style. I hunt mostly pheasant, and get after sharpies, prairie chickens and mountain grouse whenever I can get west. I've hunted over Setters and Brits most of my earlier years. But have graduated over to Spaniels as I seem to lose less birds with them due to thier stronger retrieve drive. Plus they always seem to have a contagious happy disposition. I've hunted over quite a few Labradors. Some pointing Labs, and some just the regular variety. Out of about 30 dogs, one of them is what I'd consider a outstanding retriever. A real slight built female that retrieved 56 out of 59 ducks in a season in some pretty thick river cover. When I hunt most of the enjoyment to me is seeing the dog work. Watching some portly Lab potter along with his brown star shining back at me isn't what I like seeing on a hunt. The only good part about it is that they only last about 2 or 3 hours so you don't have to watch them long. Plus most of thier hips are shot by the time they are 8-9 as a rule it seems. Your choice should really depend on how involved you want to get in your hunt. You do have to be on your toes a little more with a flushing dog. But if you watch them close you can really notice when they are making game. On the other hand there nothing more beautiful than a dog stretched out on point. Like mentioned above, figure the cover and birds you hunt most and go from there.

I agree with Cockerman on the Labs but I really enjoy the pointing breads in upland hunting. The only problem is that they tend to not have a strong drive in retrienving. I tend to lose more birds if they aren't well hit with a pointer than a flusher.

ddj

quote:

Originally posted by Cockerman77:
...... I've hunted over quite a few Labradors. Some pointing Labs, and some just the regular variety. Out of about 30 dogs, one of them is what I'd consider a outstanding retriever. A real slight built female that retrieved 56 out of 59 ducks in a season in some pretty thick river cover. When I hunt most of the enjoyment to me is seeing the dog work. Watching some portly Lab potter along with his brown star shining back at me isn't what I like seeing on a hunt. The only good part about it is that they only last about 2 or 3 hours so you don't have to watch them long. Plus most of thier hips are shot by the time they are 8-9 as a rule it seems. Your choice should really depend on how involved you want to get in your hunt. You do have to be on your toes a little more with a flushing dog. But if you watch them close you can really notice when they are making game. On the other hand there nothing more beautiful than a dog stretched out on point. Like mentioned above, figure the cover and birds you hunt most and go from there.

Rule #1 when buying a lab is to throw away your newspaper. That'll take care of most problems mentioned. Rule #2 for buying any pure breed dog is to check their genetic "cleanliness", OFA good or better hips both sides 2 generations, normal elbows, cerf clear, etc. Rule #3 is to set standards for what you will accept as far as the parents go. I want documentation, both parents need to have an AKC MH behind their registered name or better yet FC/AFC or be QAA. That tells me they are likely to pass on some good traits. Too many people breeding "Good Huntin' Dawgs". Rule #4 is to buy a lab whos parents actually fit breed standards, look them up and you'd be surprised how many labs you walk by at the park that are much bigger than breed standard. Rule #5 is not to buy based on color. When you get back home with little fur ball, you won't care what color it is anyway. Breeders that breed for color and buyers that buy based on color are leaving a lot on the table. If you must, black is the color you want.

Sorry about the off topic!

Don't overlook GSP's My buddy and I have been taking ours to Nebraska for the last 10 years for pheasant and quail. Not all GSP's run big.
Our dogs work great on Pheasant,knowing when to trail and when to hold point[ Pheaant are difficult as they do run and this comes with experience ] Quail , we work them on quail here in Ga. so they work great on the wild birds we find in NE. very versatile breed and good pets too. My 4 1/2 month old pup has been working like a champ and I have shot a bird or two over him now. GSP's are an excellent versatile breed to consider.

quote:

I tend to lose more birds if they aren't well hit with a pointer than a flusher.

ddj

That depends on the breed, more than on the pointer / flusher distinction. I hunted 50 days one year, everything from forest grouse to sharptails to pheasants in North Dakota. My old female did not lose a SINGLE bird that season. Some luck involved with that, admittedly, but the point remains.

Select some of the continental breeds that haven't been turned into "point only" lines, and you might just be surprised. I've seen Drents, Small Muensterlanders, long-haired Weims, Spinones and German Longhairs (I think that's all....) used as retrievers on driven hunts, to great acclaim.

As a matter of fact, for a while I would run my two Drents (at the time) as "cleanup" dogs on a local "high driven shoot" outfit after the labs were through. The labs were great at retrieving stuff they saw fall, but my dogs would find the ones they didn't see (or forgot about in all the excitement). FWIW, Dutch.

For me the answer is fairly simple & I've owned & hunted over well trained examples of both. With a flushing dog you will walk at least 3 times as far as you will with a pointing dog to get the same # of birds.

German Wirehar Pointers are hard to beat as an all rounder.

For quail, no question a pointing dog is better.

For pheasants, it's hard to beat a close working pointing dog like a little Brittany Spaniel or perhaps a German Shorthair. However, flushing dogs like a Springer Spaniel or a good lab work very well also. Why anyone would try and make a pointing dog out of a lab is beyond me when there are so many other breeds that are superior natural pointers.

One big drawback about the spaniels is their heavy coat. At the end of the day you are going to spend a lot of time cleaning out the cockle burrs and such.

I am one of those who is attracted to the pointing lab. It is the versatility of them that makes them seem a good choice to me, in theory at least. I've not yet actually seen one work live and in person. I have seen a video of a stud I was interested in getting some pups from. He was trained to point/hold and then flush the birds himself on command. And then you have all the capabilities of the lab for retrieving. To me, that is a luxury hunting dog. Too many of the pure pointing dogs do nothing, and I mean nothing but point. They and the field trialers remind me of the race horse people who will "train" a horse for two years, and at the end of it, all they know is how to run strait and turn slowly to the left.

As to the burrs and such, try going to your local feed store and buying a bottle of Show Sheen or a similar product. They are a silicone based spray used to slick and shine show stock. You can cut it 50/50 with water and simply spray it on before a hunt. Your long haired combing problems will be non-existent after the hunt. It really does work.

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:

Too many of the pure pointing dogs do nothing, and I mean nothing but point. They and the field trialers remind me of the race horse people who will "train" a horse for two years, and at the end of it, all they know is how to run strait and turn slowly to the left.
+1

As to the burrs and such, try going to your local feed store and buying a bottle of Show Sheen or a similar product. They are a silicone based spray used to slick and shine show stock. You can cut it 50/50 with water and simply spray it on before a hunt. Your long haired combing problems will be non-existent after the hunt. It really does work.

That's a great tip! I will give it a try. My wife and I just spent an hour each deburring my two springers I get them muddy and burry about three times a week all year long so I spend a lot of time deburring hopefully that stuff works. (you would think that my dog groomer wife would have known this )

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
For quail, no question a pointing dog is better.

For pheasants, it's hard to beat a close working pointing dog like a little Brittany Spaniel or perhaps a German Shorthair. However, flushing dogs like a Springer Spaniel or a good lab work very well also. Why anyone would try and make a pointing dog out of a lab is beyond me when there are so many other breeds that are superior natural pointers.

One big drawback about the spaniels is their heavy coat. At the end of the day you are going to spend a lot of time cleaning out the cockle burrs and such.

Springers do make superior pheasant dogs.
I agree with your assessment about pointing labs it seems bass ackwards to me also but there must be something to it because you see more and more of them.
Come spring time my springers get shaved down and that makes them much easier to keep clean and burr free. In the winter I let them get shaggy to help them stay warm when I'm hunting ducks late in the season. They handle the cold well but not as good as my chesssie.

I havn't heard anyone mention a Viszla. My son has one and she is great. Tremendous drive, she will cover a lot of ground if you let her or stay close. She is not much of a retriever but pins cripples down and waits for you to get there. I have a cross between a GSP and a lab she doesn't have the range my sons dog does neither does she have quite the manic driven attitude when the tailgate drops. She runs well, needs to be told to whoa to get her to hold point. She doesn't have anywhere near the nose the Viszla does. I love em both they are a great pair together. I prefer mine to hunt with if I am alone. she stays close and is a better field companion. If the cover is a wide open field of grain or grass, let the Viszla go big. DW

Took my BLM "Pete" on a preserve pheasant hunt yesterday to get tuned up for the upland part of the spring Grand in Amite,LA. He's false pointed before, but I never tried to develope it.
Son of a gun held point yesterday. Either held on whoa or flushed when told to.
Where he picked up whoa I'll never know.

After many years of hunting with guides and friends with dogs I decided it was time to reward myself with the best bird dog I could find. Over the span of about 9 months I visted many kennels and spoke to countless hunters about where their dogs come from. I wanted a dog I could introduce young people to upland hunting. (I have 3 kids for 11-20 and a litter of nephews and nieces) I'm in my late 40's and travel a lot on business so I wanted an easy keeping dog. Next I wanted a dog that I could walk behiind and KNOW there were no birds we missed. So Hunting desire and ability were paramount. I guess I eliminated the flushers pretty quick due to the "hyper" factor, so that left the Setters and Pointers. The Pointers I tried were all the Elhew type and just seemed to be too mechcanical. I just coundn't bring myself to go with the GSP's and the Wirehaires were a no from the start (Life is too short to hunt with an ugly dog, or dance with an ugly woman)

I said all that to say this. I found the second love of my life at DeCoverly Kennels in Pa. They have kept the Ryman strain of the English Setter going for over 100 years They are primarly grouse dogs, but excell on all upland gamebirds. I know this because Rio and I are on a mission to take all 28 species of upland gamebirds. In the 2 seasons we have partnered together we have taken 11 species. So I know she can find birds in just about any type of country. She has found Grouse in Mn. at -5 degs. and Quail and Chachalaca in Del Rio, Texas at 85 deg. We had to get a letter from our vet so she could fly at temps above and below the airline posted temps.

If you want a bird dog that will be a partner and easy to live with around the house a Decoverly Setter will be hard to beat. Plus not many kennels will give you a ten year warrenty on a bird dog.


“The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you through the smoke of his burning village, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters, while riding his gelding.”
Genghis Khan quote

What Big Mo said!

Stepchild

Dillingham Alaska does not favor "Outside dogs," or "Kennel dogs,". As this is true my bird dog lives in my/ our home. I am not assertive so my bird dog sleeps in and on my wifes and my bed. Usually "Babe" assumes or hogs most of the bed and the two human occupants of said boudoir are relegated to whatever Babe does not at the moment require for her rest.

This arraingement works for the three of us because as a hunting family we only require one bird dog. We only require one bird dog because Babe is a Labrador. We as a hunting family only require a Labrador as our only bird dog because our Labrador is equally proficient at retrieving Tundra Swans as Greenwing teal.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...4121043/m/2231079711

Babe is as capable of hunting pheasants as she is at Spruce grouse. A competent Labrador needs no assistance, needs no compliment. A good Labrador is a singularly capable hunting companion for a bird hunter that needs no additive. That cannot be said about nearly any other breed of bird dog.

quote:

Dillingham Alaska does not favor "Outside dogs," or "Kennel dogs,". As this is true my bird dog lives in my/ our home. I am not assertive so my bird dog sleeps in and on my wifes and my bed. Usually "Babe" assumes or hogs most of the bed and the two human occupants of said boudoir are relegated to whatever Babe does not at the moment require for her rest.

This arraingement works for the three of us because as a hunting family we only require one bird dog. We only require one bird dog because Babe is a Labrador. We as a hunting family only require a Labrador as our only bird dog because our Labrador is equally proficient at retrieving Tundra Swans as Greenwing teal.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...4121043/m/2231079711

Babe is as capable of hunting pheasants as she is at Spruce grouse. A competent Labrador needs no assistance, needs no compliment. A good Labrador is a singularly capable hunting companion for a bird hunter that needs no additive. That cannot be said about nearly any other breed of bird dog.

Wow you must be very wealthy! I can hardly afford my 1 wife!

Save a lot of time and anxiety first by doing research on what ever animal you desire. Buy a good dog from a good breeder. Spend 3-4 months in research and talk to many trainers.
I hunt quail in Texas and there is no way a heavy Lab is going to keep pace with a pointer or good english setter.
That Lab will have a heat stroke in short order. My son began running some of his animals in trials a few years back and really enjoys it. He has learned volumes from the best people in the business. His dogs will hunt with foot hunter or on horseback. Be prepared to spend some money on the animal in initial investment and professional training.
I highly suggest you do not buy a dog from your "buddy's" litter.

X 2 eezrdr. Well bred dogs are going to be higher priced. But most of the time are worth the investment. Don't overlook spaniels, or setters because life's too short to hunt behind an ugly dog.

I am partial to good setters as well. My "belief" is that a setter will hunt harder for you. English Pointers are fabulous hunters but hunt more for themselves. A good setter is a great companion as well as a hunter.
There are two types of English Setters. The Ryman line may be excellent for close in work in the Grouse and Woodcock environment but you should consider a smaller lighter Setter for down south and out west.

quote:

The OP question actually points to many considerations of the fundamental traits of particular breeds. Typically, flushing dogs are more hyper. Think about cocker spaniels. They are known for peeing in the house when excited. Many breeds are known for having certain characteristics that you not enjoy. GSP's run large when hunting. Many people lose their GSP's because the dog runs for miles. Certain breeds are much harder to reign in and train to hunt close.

We have Brittanies. In addition to being great field partners, they are GREAT family pets. They love people in general and kids in particular. They are very tolerate of kids pulling and tugging. More Brittanies are Dual Champions than any other breed.

They are easily trained. When I say easy to train, I refer to obedience and field trial type training, not hunting training. Good blood lines of Britts will point at 4 weeks old, and later will retrieve easily, and work the wind automatically. The first time our female Britt pup worked the wind ( ran straight downwind of the hunting area, then criss crossed back up wind hunting for the scent), she was 4 months old and had no training.

The key is to buy good bloodlines. The better the instinct and drive, the more pleasurable the hunt. You can't teach the drive to hunt. The dog must have it from birth.

Our Britts hunt dove, quail, pheasant, and retrieve waterfowl.

If the birds are holding. our Britts will stay on point. If the birds are running, the dogs follow. Hunting with friends with other breeds, I've seen their dog go on point, the bird moves, but the dog stays put. Hunter gets there and there is no bird to shoot. This morning, their dogs were pointing feathers without any birds in the bush; wasting time. A couple birds were shot down, but not dead. Their dogs never retrieved the wounded birds because the birds were fighting and trying to fly away. Our female dove right in past 2 dogs and grabbed the bird in the bush and brought to me. The other time, she snatched the bird in the air as it was trying to fly away half crippled; the other dogs just stood there not sure what to do. When we hunt with other people, I tell them if they knock the bird down and it tries to get up to fly away, don't shoot again, let the dog get it. Once I tell our dogs to "Get the bird", if it is wounded, they will bring it back.

Another good breed is the pointing lab, although there are not a lot of them. The main problem is there is no guarantee that your lab will point since it is the submissive gene. Also, labs are more prone to hip and joint problems.

We have a litter of Britt pups due in a few weeks. Strong hunting desire in both stud and dam. We waited for hunting season to breed her so the unborn pups would get the hormones and adrenaline released during the hunt.

We'll be selling our puppies for $600
AKC registered, health guaranteed, and guaranteed to have a nose to hunt. 5 generations of Field Champions and Best of Breed Champ

I personally have never seen a Calm bird dog. They are hyper by nature. Britannys are just as hyper as any flushing breed. All dogs must be trained to be steady. My brother inlaws brittany will flush birds at 300 yards and pees on the floor when he is excited. Not saying it is a bad dog just a bad trainer. I think any good trained dog pointer or flusher will beat any nontrained dog.

quote:

I personally have never seen a Calm bird dog. They are hyper by nature. Britannys are just as hyper as any flushing breed. All dogs must be trained to be steady. My brother inlaws brittany will flush birds at 300 yards and pees on the floor when he is excited. Not saying it is a bad dog just a bad trainer. I think any good trained dog pointer or flusher will beat any nontrained dog.

WOW!! You must be shopping at the wrong store. Good bird dogs IMO should have the switch...calm around home and then turn it on in the field. As far as nervous urinating, that is a temperament problem..lack of confidence.

A few of you insulted my "ugly dogs" during this discussion...once you've hunted geese at daybreak, watched them pointing roosters/sharpies/huns at 200 yds late morning and then ducks end of day, you might not think they're quite so ugly.

To put a cellar door on this thread, i'd like to to say that after 60 plus years of bird hunting i've come to the conclusion that GSP's are the best, my BEST died last year and while he was alive he helped to raise my kids, most of you would't know what that means but at this moment I have a GSP male, 4 1/2 months at my feet. This pup has the makin's of an excellent bird dog/companion. He is full of the devil at the moment but he has that LOOK in his eye, this pup has it all together.
The bottom line is, if you love the dog and he or she loves you what more is needed?

Stepchild taking my 7 month old GSP to Jr.Hunter trials this weekend. I have hunted birds seriously for about the last 12 years. There are good dogs, bad dogs but this either has to do with training or the dog just doesn't have it. I agree with you that the GSP is one of the best in the house and out. A good Brittany is tough to beat but a bad on is bad. Labs have their places too. just because a dog runs big you need to learn how to reel him in. I had rather do that than have a dog under my feet all day. Setters are great dogs and take a little longer to train. English pointers usually won't let you touch them, short on personality. But all good hunters if properly trained.
Give me a good Shorthair any day

quote:

WOW!! You must be shopping at the wrong store. Good bird dogs IMO should have the switch...calm around home and then turn it on in the field. As far as nervous urinating, that is a temperament problem..lack of confidence.

A few of you insulted my "ugly dogs" during this discussion...once you've hunted geese at daybreak, watched them pointing roosters/sharpies/huns at 200 yds late morning and then ducks end of day, you might not think they're quite so ugly.

Where do you buy dogs with a switch? What I am saying is that the breed or style of the dog is less important than good training.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Mo:
Stepchild taking my 7 month old GSP to Jr.Hunter trials this weekend. I have hunted birds seriously for about the last 12 years. There are good dogs, bad dogs but this either has to do with training or the dog just doesn't have it. I agree with you that the GSP is one of the best in the house and out. A good Brittany is tough to beat but a bad on is bad. Labs have their places too. just because a dog runs big you need to learn how to reel him in. I had rather do that than have a dog under my feet all day. Setters are great dogs and take a little longer to train. English pointers usually won't let you touch them, short on personality. But all good hunters if properly trained.
Give me a good Shorthair any day

I guess I can count my self as being fortunate for having shared 15 wonderful years with an english pointer that was an exception to the norm. Unfortunately, my buds stomach twisted on him two weeks ago and the vet was unable to do anything about it, we had to put him to sleep. I've never been around a dog with more personality. Some people mistake the pointers "one track mind" in the field as being stand-offish towards people, but pointers that get raised around family and are house dogs/family pets in the off season make excellent members of the family. Gunner, in his retirement, would climb into my dads lap every morning after his run and take his nap. He wasn't a face licker, but was an affectionate dog and had personality without question.