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Some dogs just have the switch. The line I breed will be a bit excited to go, but then lays down on the back seat of the truck and is asleep before you leave the driveway. When we stop, then they get worked up a little, but as a whole, the switch doesn't turn until I put my hunting vest on. I've been around the "all hyper, all the time" dogs, and it wears thin, real fast. FWIW, Dutch. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog. | |||
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All one really needs is a lab.  | |||
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Bryan sorry about Bud. I based that on my buddy who has worked pointers since the early 70's and a devout birdhunter. He wouldn't give you a plug nickel for shorthair either. Glad you had a long time with Bud I'm sure he was special | |||
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You gotta love these kind of questions. Because just like the guy that asks, "What is the best rifle caliber?", there really is no right answer. It depends on so many factors: 1. What do you hunt? 2. What kind of terrain and climate do you hunt in? 3. What traits in a dog are important to you? I do not consider myself an expert but I have owned, trained or hunted over labs, pointing labs, chessies, goldens, springer spaniels, cockers, GSPs, GWPs, brittanies, English setters, red setters, Gordon setters, English pointers, pudelpointers, weims, etc. over the last 40+ years. I appreciate the differences in the breeds and have enjoyed hunting over all kinds of well bred and well trained dogs. This is what I have learned: 1. There is no perfect dog for every situation or every hunter. 2. There is no perfect breed. If there was why have so many breeds been developed and so many people devoted exclusively to different breeds? 3. All dogs are individuals. There can be be more difference between two individuals of the same breed than two dogs of different breeds. I have seen English pointers that were great water retrievers and English springers that were excellent pointers. 4. Just because your lab (or GSP, setter, etc) is some kind of freakish perfect dog that has the ideal combination of important traits that makes it the perfect dog for you does not mean its the perfect dog for me or that another dog of the same breed will be just like your dog. 5. I have been around many of those "hyper" bird dogs that are wired 24 hours a day. I can't stand them. But I have owned and/or been around many bird dogs that had lots of drive in the field but could turn it off around the house. If its important to you, seek out breeders that are breeding for that kind of temperment. 6. Sorry pointing lab guys, but in my opinion based on my experience and observations of a number of "pointing" labs in the field, they are the wrong answer to a question that no one should be asking. If you want a pointer, get a pointer. If you want a retriever, get a retriever. If you want one that does both get one of the versatile breeds. But although there are excellent versatiles out there, your GWP probably is not likely to point as well as a good Elhew pointer or retrieve ducks as well as a good lab. However, its obvious many do not agree with me. I suspect that due to the apparent popularity of the idea of a retriever that can point, pointing lab breeders will continue to sell (at inflated prices) every dog they can produce. | |||
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Well said!
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I agree | |||
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Jack, my first dog is an exellent all rounder, he is good on pigeon, duck, geese, rabbits, deer and grouse. He is part pointer part spaniel, he is 11 and still going very strong.   | |||
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I will agree there is no perfect speciman in a dog that will cover all situations but I also know that the German Shorthair Pointer is real good at most things that I have tried them at, both in and off the field. I do like Labs a bunch but that is the duck hunter in me spouting off while the gardner in me is screaming "heck no"! Those Labs can wreck a flower garden in 2 minutes flat. I have had Britts, Labs and a Springer or two in my days! However, never did go any further than the German Shorthair Pointer and we do have a few good un's too. | |||
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one problem I've noticed about the few pointers I've been around is that they don't do well in the cold. The poor things just don't have the coats for it and they never seem to have any fat on them. The poor things are always shivering. I guess that you could knit a sweater for them.  | |||
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Cumbrian, YOU and JACK are blessed....ENJOY  DRSS & Bolt Action Trash | |||
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I must say that we do favor the Pointer Breeds over Flushers but this is something hunters have to simply work out for themselves, as to which bred and weather or not this wish to hunt a certain way etc. There are NO BAD DOGS!!! | |||
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+1!!! And that is the crux of the matter...finding the right dog. Over the years I have become more convinced that the real priority is the livability factor. Don't care how great a dog is, if its eating the upholstery off the truck, its a POS. You can get a good dog from many breeds from many good breeders. What it becomes is up to you. If you hunt where game is scarce, the bigger running pointing dog has the advantage. If pheasant in the sloughs is your game, get the flusher. Big time ducks?...get the lab. Average ducks and birds, get a good Vdog. Good luck...post a pic when you get the new mallard muncher!! | |||
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Alot of the problems people have mentioned about dogs sound more like a lack of training to me, like bumping birds too far out, etc. A good pointer will hold for 15 - 20 minutes or more if need be. It can easily take that long to get to a dog in open country. I ended up with a setter because I live for open country upland hunting, mostly chukar in the desert river canyons. He'll cover more ground and hold up physically better than any other dog I've hunted with, including most of the ones mentioned somewhere along the way in this thread. Some of it is training and conditioning, but some of it is just that he's the right dog for the job. Is he useless in a duck blind? Yep, totally. Do I care? Nope, couldn't care less. Your choice of dogs has to be based on a realistic look at the kind of hunting you do, your other pets (e.g. cats and GWP's just don't mix), and how much time you have to spend with the dog. One good all around versatile dog is probably the best choice for most people that do a variety of hunting. Alot of people make the mistake of buying a puppy when a finished dog would be a much better choice for them. IMO that's at least as important a decision as what kind of dog you get. Taking a puppy to a good hunting dog is alot of work and not all that many people can do it right, no matter how good the breeding. Far as liking one more than the other, I love 'em all. My setter is my best boy, but I'd have one of everything if I could! | |||
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I agree. I've always said that what you get out of a dog depends on what you put in. | |||
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EZRider has some excellent points. Right now I'm running a couple Brittanies. However....I think they are susceptible to cold weather and I had one go into hypothermia last winter when he chased a wounded pheasant into a slough. Good dogs but not perfect. They do fine on pheasant and they have both been professionally trained. After lots of years pheasant hunting and grouse hunting, I'm back to English SPringer Spaniels and I don't care if its a show breed or field bred. Show bred can be shaved for early hunting season. Both need a lot of PAM if you're hunting then with much of a coat. I like tough dogs. I like dogs that can handle the same weather I hunt in. Thats one reason I'm not interested in some of the short hair breeds. I've seen too many German Short Hairs and others negatively affected by cold snowy days. I want a dog that can hunt all day for 3 or 4 days when properly fed, kept in a warm kennel and properly groomed. All the social theory goes out the window when hunting pheasant in 40 mph winds, rain and you've been getting beat up by the environment. I don't want a dog following me around because it can't hunt anymore. | |||
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Iam on my 4 lab I just find a well train flusher works better for my type of hunting. I owned one german short hair she had a great nose but was way to big of a runner for me. If I had her again I would only use her in big CRP feilds hunting by myself put a beeper collar on her and let her go. She was steady on point and could really find birds. But to hunt her with a bunch of other guys she didn't work out. I have hunted over other pointing dogs and like any other if they are well trained and handled properly they can be joy to hunt over. As with any dog the training and handling is the biggest factor in hunting with them. That all said I am heading for SD on weds with my latest lab a year. been working him alot we'll see how he does. | |||
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I cannot see how you can compare a Lab to a bird dog. They are bred for two separate tasks. A lab would have a heart attack trying to keep pace with a pointer or good setter (Western). They are bred with a thick coat and most have a nice layer of fat. All this is great for keeping the animal warm in frigid waters and buoyancy. A bird dog would freeze to death fetching birds in icy water. I believe you are compromising trying to use an animal that is not best suited for a task. I want my bird dog to find birds. To me that entails a great nose and covering ground. A lab is not going to cover a lot of ground (relatively speaking). It also makes since to get a "white dog" with a long tail @ 12 oclock that is constantly moving so you can keep track of them. A good dog does not come cheap. You can expect to pay $600.00+ for a quality pup plus a minimum of $3K for training by a "professional", not your brother N law. EZ | |||
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How does that silicone mix with water?  | |||
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Like salad dressing, shake before using. They don't truly have to mix. The water is just the delivery system, and the way that they have it setup strait, it is much more "potent" than what is really needed. You can use it strait, but when you're buying it for a barn full of horses and a dog or two, you save a bit here and there by adding some water. Or, maybe I'm just a tightwad.  | |||
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eezridr I have had labs out preform some very expensive so called bird dogs in the grouse woods and pheasant feilds. Pointers have there place but to say one is better then the next to far fetch. I hunted with a guy who breed sold/trained all kinds of pointing breeds for big bucks too. I then watched some of his high priced and traind pointers totally fail in very heavy cover (catails ect) where a lab would just keep on busting through them. I watch them over run birds that my labs would then put up. Or watched them frezze and not beable to hunt because the temp is just above zero. Some very good pheasant hunting is late season with snow and cold. To say you spend lots of money on a dog to get a great hunter sounds like you are a breeder and seller/trainer. The most I ever payed was 75 dollars with all the shots ect. I would have put my 50 dollar junk yard yellow lab up against any dog. When it came to finding birds. I called her my junk yard dog because I brought her from the owner of a junk yard. I train all my own dogs and have very good results. The trouble with most dog owner they don't take the time to learn how or time to do the training. A good pointer is fun to watch and hunt over but so is a good lab or other well trained flusher for up land birds. | |||
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Don't for a minute think that the retrievers won't make good upland dogs. I have hunted my chessie for both upland and waterfowl and she excelled at both. P dog shooter is right about the brush busting. My chessie was a bulldozer in the heavy brush and cat tails and has the scars to prove it. and I have never seen her shiver even on the coldest hunts and if you have ever hunted the Mt highline in winter you know what cold really is. Wet or dry no hunting breed handles the cold like a chessie. my chessie is now retired and my springers have taken her place. Maybe the answer is to have five or six different dogs one for every situation. But if your a poor working stiff like me one dog to do it all. | |||
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