By your own dog. Hard.

The dog is a 6 yr neutered male Chocolate. Tends to not listen with out an electronic hearing aid. Was abused as a pup, the breeder apparently let other pups dominate at the feed dish. My dog would grab and go with the food when he first got here. Food is very important to him.

The situation. We went out the back. The neighbor was playing with her almost year old black lab bitch. She is a nice big female that dominates my dog fetching. Mine will beat her to it, but gives it up to her when she catches up to him. I didn't see the neighbors till we were out. My dog did not have his hearing aid on. He left his throw disc and went to sniffing and marking the snowbanks. Less than 30 yards and he is totally ignoring me. I call and head his way. He gets on the snowbank where another neighbor put out some cereal. My dog is now totally ignoring me as I reach for him. We have big snow banks and are eye to eye height. He is facing directly away, but aware of me. I reach for him and he starts to move off. I grab his tail and he turns and bites me. I reach to restrain him and he bites me again. I am not pulling his tail, just holding. I have leather gloves on, so no skin is broken. A day later the hand is still swollen.

Put yourself in my shoes and what do you do? Immediately and follow through.

Thanks

I would first invest in an electric training collar. Then do some basic training with the dog. Teach the dog that disobedience is never allowed. The shock mode is used in conjunction with the basic training. It is merely a tool to extend the reach of your arms to make the dog obey. Our dogs almost never get shocked, we almost always use the vibrate mode. When the dogs are out of hearing range, we can vibrate the collar for 2 seconds and then they know it is time to come home.

The vibrating collar will eliminate you startling him due to his lack of hearing (which is what may have caused his first nip). The basic training will assert you as the dominant male. Right now, you are not the dominant male.

None of our dogs would ever bite me.

The basic training will eliminate the possibility of that situation ever happening again.

quote:

Put yourself in my shoes and what do you do? Immediately and follow through.

If you had given that dog to me and he bit me, the immediate response is to pinch his ear to assert dominance.

The follow through is in my preceding post.

Basic training only takes 15 minutes a day, twice a day. In 2 weeks you will have a new dog.

Always enforce every command. Never give a command that you can not enforce. If you say "come" and he does not come, what do you do? Use the e-collar. If you say "come" and do not enforce it, you are not dominant and you will probably be bit again. Contrary to what most people think, dogs prefer to have someone else be dominant. The dominant male is responsible for protecting the territory. If you become dominant, your dog will be more at ease and relaxed.

Cesar Millan -- "Cesar's Way"

Millan is the "Dog Whisperer." And has a TV program.

Your dog has abuse issues. Pulling his tail and grabbing at him is going to aggravate his reactions to "abuse" (food/domination).

This dog is looking for an "Alpha Dog" -- which is why he's giving up the Frisbee. But he's also defensive about food access, and he's risking being aggressive to protect his food.

You need to key in on this behavior. Establish that you're the "Alpha Dog" and his source of food, leadership, safety. Train by providing him with food and then reinforcing that he's safe, fed from YOU . . . Don't be a "threat" to his food/safety while he's eating.

If he can't hear, you need to train for visual commands. High pitched ("silent") dog whistle might work.

"Cesar's Way" is a start.

Put ice on the hand. If the swelling gets worse or movement becomes painful, see a doctor for eval.

If your dog will bite you, it will bite children, neighbors, and other dogs. That's a legal/liability issue. You might want to consult a trainer.

I disagree on "shock collars," and so does Millan. They teach the dog that when you're around they get shocked.

Vibrate might work. But twice a day, 15 min. minimum each time, you need to walk the dog, teach him you're the "Alpha" . . . positively reinforce good behavior.

My Heeler loved to walk in the wet ditches, swim in the creek. Couple weeks of walking, and voice commands, assertion and positive reinforcement and she stopped the "swimming" when out.

Takes consistent work/reinforcement. Structured training time -- which is NOT "tossing the frisbee/ball."

Shootist and OXO are on the right track. The vibrator will help with the hearing problem.
Start working the basics again sit,come,stay this will help you regain control and be assertive don't let the dog become the master. Make sure that your dog gets plenty of excercize.

You are getting good advice here. When I got my Chesapeake Bay retriever I had similar issues and turned here for advice. Ceasar Milan has DVDs out that you should be able to get from your local library. He says dogs need:
Exercise
Discipline
Affection
in that order!
I agree that your dog wants to establish himself as Alpha, but actually he wants YOU to be the Alpha dog, to establish boundaries etc. With your dog's hearing problem you might need an E collar although I have never used one and have never needed one (at least in my opinion)! Nip this in the bud NOW! With a dog that has been abused hitting is NOT the answer. The pinched ear sounds really good!
Good luck and keep us posted. I have a rescue/shelter dog as well.
Peter.

The dog bite because he is confused as to who pack leader is. I would have gotten him by the nose and the balls lay ed on top of him and bite his ear until he submitted, then peed on his head just like a alpha leader. The e-collar will only make it worse unless it is strong enough to put him on the ground. If he picks the fight you better be able to finish it so that he won't do it again. You must react the instant he shows aggression and you must win even if you get bite. You take his legs away and use your body weight to pin him , you keep control of the nose and his balls. Biting his ear and squeezing his balls will make him summit if he can't fight back. You will need to make him wine like a puppy. If you are not able to or willing to be alpha leader and enforce it he will bite again. If you had grabbed his tall and he only bite only once it may have been out of fear but the second bite after knowing it was you tells the tail. Think about how much damage would have been done with out a heavy glove on, If he shook your arm during the bite just put him down, that is a very aggressive and dangerous dog. I would not trust him near small children! If you are not willing or able to do what I suggested, get some professional help or put him down. Do not give him away with out explaining to the new owner what problems you are having that would be wrong and dangerous. Do not take this lightly!!!

I once rescued a 90 lb GSP I was told had nipped a child, I latter found out the it had bitten several people. He jumped on our bed while my wife and I were standing next to it. My 100 lb wife fussed at him, his eyes rolled back in his head and he attacked in a full fit of rage. If I had not been there to intercede my WIFE or 15 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WOULD HAVE BEEN INJURED OR KILLED ( I have no doubts about that)! The dog had no clue what it was doing.

JD

Perhaps I was not clear, I am sorry. The hearing problem is behavioral, not physical. The hearing aid is a shock collar. The dog likes to have his collar on. He invents ways to be good when it is on him.

Could not grab his balls.

I have been in three dog fights. The first one, the dog was put down. He bit through my thumb nail. The second was not my dog, but I had him. He had bit me hard three times above the wrists. The third just happened.

He knows I am the alpha. I doubt I will bite his ear. The gloves were thin TIG welder gloves, tough leather, no padding don't see an ear pinch working on him with gloves on. I was in a dog fight and surely was not going to take them off.

He is crate trained and in confinement now. Gets out four or five times a day. He wears an E collar and can hear just fine.

Do you let go off the dog after he bites you?

I'd have rattled his cage but good. If you had his tail, and could get his scruff, just put him down hard and hold him there. I'm not quite clear on how feeding habits at his former home translated to abuse. In my experience as a horse trainer, the tag "abuse" is way over used, and nobody believes their animal is spoiled. The spoiled ones are FAR AND AWAY, more dangerous than the ones who are scared/abused. If your, or any dog even considers biting you, especially if food is involved, he is NOT clear on the alpha thing. A more submissive animal will ALWAYS GIVE UP HIS FOOD to a more dominant animal. This is a key point with your dog. I'd start at home during feeding time every day.

Rules of the pack:
The dog NEVER eats first. In the wild, the dominant animals eat first, the lower you are on the food chain, the later you eat. Think of lions on the plains of Africa. Your family should eat a meal, and only then is the dog allowed to be fed. No table scraps, and no food from the hand.
The dog MUST come to his food with the proper attitude. If he isn't submissive and happy about feeding time, then he doesn't get fed. I'm not saying that he needs to be cowering from you to be submissive, but he damn sure shouldn't growl, threaten, or at all seem to protect his food. Most trainers make the dog perform a task before being allowed to eat. It can be as simple as sitting quietly, or more formal. Either way, the dog has to earn his supper. If he seems in any way shape or form to be protecting his food, he is telling you that he is boss and you can't have his food. Tell him he is wrong.
You should, at any time, be able to remove him from his food, or his food from him. This is where I would start with your dog. If his attitude changes to poor after he is allowed to eat, stand firmly and take his food away. Every member of your family should be able to take his food away with no problem from him. If they can't, he believes himself to be above them in the pecking order, and thus will feel entitled to bite or punish them. This is a PROBLEM. Since he bit you, I'll assume he feels the other members of your family are fair game as well.

There are dogs who are passive aggressive, or defensive biters, but this doesn't seem to be what you are describing. Once you solve the problem of dominance, your dog will not be comfortable ignoring you anymore either. Juice or no juice. They also sell dummy collars for dogs who seem to need juice to listen. Merely thinking they have the collar on is often enough.
Good luck.

Sounds like you have a hell of a problem. E collars can be a great help but can also wreck a dog if not used properly. Biting can never be excused if the dog bites someone else and god forbid a child you could be in a real legal mess. Getting advice on AR is all fine and well but I strongly feel that you need to go to a professional trainer before the situation gets worse. If all else fails there is always the final solution.

If the dog is crated a lot it might be causing some anxiety problems. Dogs are not designed to live in a box. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

I always take his food from him. He is made to kennel while I get his food. He will kennel when I tell him, while he is eating, without the e collar on.

This dog has been taught I am alpha.

FWIW, I didn't let go of his tail. I got hold of his collar. I pretty much wore him out. He walked at the heal when we went home. I did not put him on the heal, he put himself there.

"Biting and squeezing his ball will make him summit if he can't fight back. You will need to make him wine like a puppy".

While I generally approve of the advice given, for the record I am NOT advocating biting your dog on the balls! That is someone else's advice! You have just mentioned the downside of the E collar ie. the dog knows when he is not wearing it! You haven't mentioned anything about exercise. Your dog needs plenty of it, 2-3 mile walks would be a good start. However, I do not believe that your dog acknowledges you as Alpha. Just MHO.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by youp50:
I always take his food from him. He is made to kennel while I get his food. He will kennel when I tell him, while he is eating, without the e collar on.

This dog has been taught I am alpha.

FWIW, I didn't let go of his tail. I got hold of his collar. I pretty much wore him out. He walked at the heal when we went home. I did not put him on the heal, he put himself there.

Sounds like you're on top of things. He needs to have that same attitude all the time, and from his response to your wearing him out, and only being good with the e-collar on, he sounds like one of those dogs who just needs a lot more pressure on him than most of us would like. I'd still sure be careful about the kids and I'd dang sure keep my thumb down on this dog for a good while. OTOH, who do you know who has never been bitten by a dog?

Have you ever noticed how all labs have that "dent" between their eyes? Legend has it that the dent is from generations of duck hunters hitting them between the eyes with a paddle. LOL Many Lab enthusiasts, including myself, aren't big fans of chocolates. The chocolate color gene is double recessive and they seem to follow suite on the recessive part. A large portion of them are somewhat, I'll say lesser so as to not piss off Sarah Palin, but you get the idea. LOL If you don't believe me simply compare the thousands of black and yellow champs and big time dogs with the handful of chocolates on the same level. Sorry if I'm a bigot for judging based on color.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
"Biting and squeezing his ball will make him summit if he can't fight back. You will need to make him wine like a puppy".

While I generally approve of the advice given, for the record I am NOT advocating biting your dog on the balls! That is someone else's advice! You have just mentioned the downside of the E collar ie. the dog knows when he is not wearing it! You haven't mentioned anything about exercise. Your dog needs plenty of it, 2-3 mile walks would be a good start. However, I do not believe that your dog acknowledges you as Alpha. Just MHO.
Peter.

Peter read carefully you bite the ear squeeze the balls. That part is very important. Its all about reacting to and punishing the dog in a way it understands as soon has he show aggression.. This was taught to me over 30 years ago by a man who had been training dogs 30 years before that - long before the e-collar.

After the punishment peeing on the dog's head is very important, it is what the pack leader would do. I have had Lady's who could work a dog over if needed, but the dog just did not get it. I had them pee in a squirt bottle set the dog up for correction then discipline the dog. With the dog prone.They would squirt on the dogs head. You also need to allow the dog a chance to make up to you afterwords, it should come to you after such a correction and seek a little comfort and affection showing that he will summit,Its important you allow this to happen. Don't over do the petting or play at this time. I would also have every family member (on different days) spit in the dogs food before feeding the dog.

Its all about working with the dog in a way it understands. Thankfully most dogs don't require such measures. Once a large dog bites, you got to but a stop to it before there is a second time . The guys that do protection work most likely have some different ways to teach a dog when its OK to bite.

JD

FWIW, Protection/bite work is really just play time to the dog. Those dogs are taught that the sleeve is their prey. Properly trained protection dogs aren't being mean like most people thing they are. They are just playing a very rough game. If the guy in the suit can't walk right up and pet the dog after the biting has occurred, then that dog doesn't have the proper temperament for protection work. If the dog happens to rip the sleeve off of the "bad guy" the dog will usually try and retrieve the sleeve back to the handler. It's just ball work in a different form really.

Try this again, he has no balls. Castrate. Neutered.

This is my first chocolate. I had a grand 2 yr black female that got it on the road. She was my 9th grade son's dog. This was the only litter available in the area.

I took him home. I told my youngest his dog was killed on the road. After about 5 minutes, I handed him this criminal. I had two chances to get rid of him.

First my Wife says get him castrate or get rid of him. Then she says to get an e collar or get rid of the dog. I blew both chances.

People routinely stop and compliment when he is taking the air off the dock in the summer. He knows and understands Come, sit, heal, fetch, and kennel. He is far to independent to take hand signals. Too hard mouthed to take anything but goose hunting. Looking back, I guess I should euthanize him.

Please do keep in mind that we are just trying to help. And doing our best from far away.

It really does sound to me like you just happen to have a tough and hard headed SOB for a dog. Is this the only incident like this in the 6 yrs? Obviously, according to your wife, he's been a problem before, but has that problem been dangerous?

Your call, but euthanizing my son's dog would be my absolute last resort, though admittedly, if you'd said he was a pitbull instead of a lab, that probably would be a more palatable response for me. I'd try for some professional help, or at least an evaluation, before putting my son's dog down, if you can.

Wasn't meaning to pick on you for having a chocolate. Some of them are OK. My Bro in law had a black lab whose pedigree was 85% chocolate, and she was a damn good dog, though she did have a few quirks. Obviously you can't do anything about his breeding or past abuse at this point. Just meant that as a fun fact for future reference. Sorry for the spot you're in. Good luck.

Please,

I take no offense in any comments and hope that none is taken by my comments. I intend not to hurt anyone.

This chocolate is hard headed.

The son will be in on the decision. He is on his own now. He was raised understanding non-producing dogs get culled. Never raised a man biter till now.

He has been to the Lake today. Ice floes gave him a work out. His kennel door has been open. He did not come out when I started eating some peanuts, we had been sharing. I put food in his dish for supper and went for a fish oil pill. I had to stand at the door of his crate. He growled at me. I put my boot into his space and he let me know it was close to happening again. I closed the door and fed him 10 minutes later.

Wish he had nuts.

You are screwing around with a dog that isn't right between the ears.

STOP doing that.

The dog is not safe around you, let alone a child.

STOP doing that.

KEEP doing this and you will eventually be a lot sorrier about things than you are now.

This dog is over due to go to heaven.

quote:

Originally posted by youp50:
Please,

I take no offense in any comments and hope that none is taken by my comments. I intend not to hurt anyone.

This chocolate is hard headed.

The son will be in on the decision. He is on his own now. He was raised understanding non-producing dogs get culled. Never raised a man biter till now.

He has been to the Lake today. Ice floes gave him a work out. His kennel door has been open. He did not come out when I started eating some peanuts, we had been sharing. Please refer to the rules above. You should NEVER share food with, or eat at the same time as this dog. I can not stress this enough. You will not be able to solve this problem if you don't follow the rules. I put food in his dish for supper and went for a fish oil pill. I had to stand at the door of his crate. He growled at me. I put my boot into his space and he let me know it was close to happening again. How do you think a dominant dog would have handled this? I'd have drug him out from his den and rattled that cage again. Dominate him every single time he shows disrespect. Doesn't mean you should beat the shit out of him, but you MUST get that message across to him, or you're gonna be forced to put him down, possibly after he's bitten someone outside of your family. HINT: putting your boot into "his space" isn't taking this nearly far enough. I closed the door and fed him 10 minutes later.

Wish he had nuts.

I certainly wish you the best and I certainly don't mean to offend, but you're certainly going to have to get more serious about this to solve the issue IMO. From all that you've written, your dog is either Bat-Sh!t crazy or much more likely, thinks he's alpha. I could be wrong, but having started a dozen dogs and over 600 horses, I think I have a decent understanding of the problems here. You can be sued if this dog bites someone else.

I am sorry Youp50, but you have had this dog since he was a puppy and you are going to put HIM down? He didn't get this way by accident! He is your responsibility and you choose to exercise it by killing him?! Obviously your way has NOT worked. You need to get some professional help for this dog, that, I say again, is YOUR responsibility. I am sorry to be so blunt, but I was not the only one who did not understand your comment:
"Tends to not listen with out an electronic hearing aid".
Again, sorry to be so blunt, but that is MHO.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
I am sorry Youp50, but you have had this dog since he was a puppy and you are going to put HIM down? He didn't get this way by accident! He is your responsibility and you choose to exercise it by killing him?! Obviously your way has NOT worked. You need to get some professional help for this dog, that, I say again, is YOUR responsibility. I am sorry to be so blunt, but I was not the only one who did not understand your comment:
"Tends to not listen with out an electronic hearing aid".
Again, sorry to be so blunt, but that is MHO.
Peter.

Peter you are being a little tough on him. You know nothing of the dogs breeding,or have first hand knowledge on how the dog was socialized and trained. The dog may be sharp due to poor breeding and just plain prone to biting, he may also be from hard driving field trial stock and too much dog for a novice trainer. He taught the dog all the basics, He got a e-collar and tried to correct the behavioral problems this dog has. None of us here should judge him poorly for putting the dog down, he has a family to protect. He should not give this dog away with out explaining whats wrong with the dog, my experience is that a person who wants to take a sharp dog home doest have the best interest of the dog in mind.
He would most like wind up chained to a post to bark at strangers or worse. The dog is 6 has no value as a working dog, is not a good pet
and most likely get worse with time.If I could not find just the right home for him ,I would have him put down. Its a hard choice.

JD

JD, you are, of course, correct. However, I think that the basis of your comment is the old nature vs. nurture argument. When dealing with dogs I come down on the side of nurture. If they can rehabilitate some of Michael Vick's dogs then I think that this dog can be rehabilitated. It may not be cheap, but I think that if we (humans) decide to get a dog then it becomes our responsibility and I think that killing the dog and "moving on" should be the LAST option, not the first.
Again, I agree that I was tough on him and if I over stated my case then I apologize to all.
Peter.

I think the part about him being confused as to Alpha is a good assessment. I 'kennel' him prior to feeding him. Yesterday I set him 'down' and rolled him to his back. Grabbed him by the stub and stretched out his throat. He was almost as tense as if ye was having a fit. He gets this a couple of times a day. I may get around to biting his ear.

Peed on his head often when he was younger.

The dog is truly a moron. Should not have been bred. Far too many quality traits are lacking.

He doesn't go around terrorizing the neighborhood.

I have owned or handled well over a hundred dogs. A conclusion I have is 'you cannot train into a dog a trait that is not there from birth.' A trainer merely polishes those traits.

Peter,

I take no offense. Truly the hardest thing I ever had to learn to do was cull a dog that I raised from puppyhood.

If you always want a top dog, you need to know what you want and not settle for less. It may mean selling or giving away. Or culling.

All this talk about peeing on dogs and grabbing their nuts is crazy talk! The fact is, if your dog bit you in a food related incident then you are not the Alpha. I'd start by making him sit before feeding him, don't let him eat until he has calmed down and in the right "frame of mind". I've got a dane/bully mix that can sometimes get a little bit overzelous, it's mostly puppy play but he has done little things like leaning on me or going through doorways ahead of me that make him think he's the alpha. One thing that I do that has really made a difference is when we come to a doorway/gate, I go through first, period. If he trys slipping past me he will get smashed between my leg and the door frame and I won't say a word. If he leans on me then I lean back until he submits. Now, I can just give him a look and he will drop his tail and fold his ears back in a submissive manner. The posture you use, the way you project yourself and your tone means more in "dog talk" than what you say or do. Unfortunately, it sounds to me like your dog has problems a simple ass whoopin' won't cure. It sounds like dominance issues to me. If it were my dog it'd be back to square 1 with obedience training, which in my opinion is where the pecking order is established. Lose the e-collar for now and use the old fashion lead/choker combo as it's more hands on, the e-collar is a great training tool but does a piss poor job at teaching or connecting you to the correction.....or helping establish you as the dominant member.


And don't bite or pee on dogs..........

Sounds to me like the easiest solution would be to shoot the SOB and get a better dog unless he's a helluva lot better hunter than your posts indicate.

May not be the politically correct solution or the feel good one, but the long term results would likely be better for you.

quote:

And don't bite or pee on dogs..........

Agreed!
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by miles58:

This dog is over due to go to heaven.

I hate to agree but our lawsuit crazy society could literally come back to bite you.

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan27:
All this talk about peeing on dogs and grabbing their nuts is crazy talk! The fact is, if your dog bit you in a food related incident then you are not the Alpha. I'd start by making him sit before feeding him, don't let him eat until he has calmed down and in the right "frame of mind". I've got a dane/bully mix that can sometimes get a little bit overzelous, it's mostly puppy play but he has done little things like leaning on me or going through doorways ahead of me that make him think he's the alpha. One thing that I do that has really made a difference is when we come to a doorway/gate, I go through first, period. If he trys slipping past me he will get smashed between my leg and the door frame and I won't say a word. If he leans on me then I lean back until he submits. Now, I can just give him a look and he will drop his tail and fold his ears back in a submissive manner. The posture you use, the way you project yourself and your tone means more in "dog talk" than what you say or do. Unfortunately, it sounds to me like your dog has problems a simple ass whoopin' won't cure. It sounds like dominance issues to me. If it were my dog it'd be back to square 1 with obedience training, which in my opinion is where the pecking order is established. Lose the e-collar for now and use the old fashion lead/choker combo as it's more hands on, the e-collar is a great training tool but does a piss poor job at teaching or connecting you to the correction.....or helping establish you as the dominant member.


And don't bite or pee on dogs..........

Bryan

This dog has has learned to bite and considers himself alpha. He has been through the basic and it has failed (six years of it, if I am reading his post right), going back through will not solve this problem it. Beating him or shocking him will not work at this time and may make things worse . I think he is biting out of fear (He has not understood the other corrections and only understand there is pain) and he is trying to establish him self as alpha. If you can put him back in beta he would then respond to what you suggest.

The correction I suggested is a last ditch effort to get through to the dog who is trying to be alpha in a way that the dog will understand, it mirrors what the pack leader does to pack members who get out of hand. If it does not work you best put it down! You do not try this unless you are strong enough, and are willing to carry it through to the end,it can be dangerous. The dog can not win! The dog must totally summit! The dog must be allowed to make up and assume a beta status. Then as a trainer you remind him you are alpha using some of the methods you spoke of with out causing him pain.

The correction was taught to me by a man who has trained more dogs than all of us put together,long before e-collars became available. I was in my 20's he was closer to 70's and spent his whole life training animals of all kinds. I do not recommend it as a common training practice ( at 56 I am not sure I can still pull it off). I have used it 3 or 4 times over the 30 or so years I have been training. It saved dogs who were going to be put down. They were fighting, or bitting their owners and nothing else had worked. Those dogs had value either as working dogs, or show stock, they were not common mutts. There were a couple of dogs I passed on because they were to far gone,or it would have been too dangerous.

JD

I just don't think that I can hold the dog down, and pull my pecker out at the same time, even assuming that I just happened to want to pee at that exact time. Plus, if the dog likes to bite.....I can think of at least one really bad thing that might happen!
Peter.

Peter
I just don't know what to do with you. You were confused about biting the ears and squeezing the balls or biting the balls and squeezing the ears earlier. Now you want to pee laying down, that just won't work. You don't get up to pee on the dogs head until he has summited to the tackle and ear bite and will lay prone at your feet. You may think I am crazy, but the correction will work when nothing else has. You better have the balls to finish it if you start it, you will be in a real dog fight. You better be able to man handle that dog or don't jump in.

I don't think I would try it with a chow, pit bull, or rot. I am not suggesting anybody do this, if you choose too, do so at your own risk.

JD

PS. I am not worried about getting bite there , I have extra and can always use it as a club If I need too.

"Peter
I just don't know what to do with you."
JD, you are right! I'm afraid that these new fangled dog training techniques are too sophisticated for me, but, thanks for trying anyway.
Peter.

This is insane!

Peeing on dogs heads!

Biting their ears!

Grabbing them by the balls!

What? Have the lot of you lost you freaking marbles? This dog is not safe around it's owner now. It is far less safe around a child of any sort. It will never be safe enough to trust around a child off leash and within striking distance, much less unsupervised. You can never, ever keep this dog in a situation in which it may be approached by a child.

A hunting dog of any stripe that can't be trusted is a liability to it's owner, and a detriment to it's breed. Further, anyone who'd practice any of the above cited training "techniques" is a lunatic, and in as desperate need of common sense as the poor SOB with the dog. Probably more so.

Good grief!

Miles,

What did I say to make you think I am poor? Let alone an SOB.

quote:

Originally posted by miles58:
This is insane!

Peeing on dogs heads!

Biting their ears!

Grabbing them by the balls!

What? Have the lot of you lost you freaking marbles? This dog is not safe around it's owner now. It is far less safe around a child of any sort. It will never be safe enough to trust around a child off leash and within striking distance, much less unsupervised. You can never, ever keep this dog in a situation in which it may be approached by a child.

A hunting dog of any stripe that can't be trusted is a liability to it's owner, and a detriment to it's breed. Further, anyone who'd practice any of the above cited training "techniques" is a lunatic, and in as desperate need of common sense as the poor SOB with the dog. Probably more so.

Good grief!

+1

quote:

Originally posted by miles58:
This is insane!

Peeing on dogs heads!

Biting their ears!

Grabbing them by the balls!

What? Have the lot of you lost you freaking marbles? This dog is not safe around it's owner now. It is far less safe around a child of any sort. It will never be safe enough to trust around a child off leash and within striking distance, much less unsupervised. You can never, ever keep this dog in a situation in which it may be approached by a child.

A hunting dog of any stripe that can't be trusted is a liability to it's owner, and a detriment to it's breed. Further, anyone who'd practice any of the above cited training "techniques" is a lunatic, and in as desperate need of common sense as the poor SOB with the dog. Probably more so.

Good grief!

miles 58 and other readers of this thread.

This correction is not for the faint of heart,but as a dog trainer you are sometimes brought dogs that start down the wrong path that you are asked to save. Their owners feel the dogs have value and don't want to put them down.
Its real easy to wash a dog out or have it put down instead of doing the work to clean up a problem the owners are most likely the cause of. Often the poor dog has been shocked or beat so often they don't understand correction any more.

You better be able to think out of the box. If you had studied pack behavior you would understand what I did is what the pack leader would do to a pack member who got out of hand. I don't have the dental ware or jaw necessary to grab them by the neck,so biting the ear had to do. The pack leader will often make another male summit by grabbing him by the balls. Pinning him with your weight and keeping control of the head via the collar or muzzle controls only one end , the balls make a good handle and mandate submission. I have done this with a 90 lb lab, you need all the control you can get,you real are in a dog fight and may get bite if you do not have total control. They are hard wired to understand that type of communication. I have used it 4 times to save dogs who were going to be put down, it worked for all 4 dogs. Peeing on a subordinate is something they do, its how they communicate,stop acting like little girls, it gets the point across in a way they understand ,its part of their social code. Its a tool you can use along with spitting in their food before feeding them if you are being tested.

You may certainly think I am a lunatic If you like, but I don't think Reading Cesar's book and buying a shock collar and passing a dog or 2 through akc hunt test makes you a dog trainer . I can train retrievers, pointers , tracking dogs. I can take your problem animals, if they are not to far gone and make good pets out of them and sometimes good working dogs.

I like and understand dogs better than most people, they don't lie or have hidden agendas, it does not take long to know where you stand with them. If you earn their respect and affection you will have it for the rest of their lives.

JD

quote:

Posted 25 February 2010 15:06 Hide Post
I think the part about him being confused as to Alpha is a good assessment. I 'kennel' him prior to feeding him. Yesterday I set him 'down' and rolled him to his back. Grabbed him by the stub and stretched out his throat. He was almost as tense as if ye was having a fit. He gets this a couple of times a day. I may get around to biting his ear.

Peed on his head often when he was younger.

The dog is truly a moron. Should not have been bred. Far too many quality traits are lacking.

He doesn't go around terrorizing the neighborhood.

I have owned or handled well over a hundred dogs. A conclusion I have is 'you cannot train into a dog a trait that is not there from birth.' A trainer merely polishes those traits.

Peter,

I would say I got the idea right here:



Posted 25 February 2010 15:06 Hide Post
"I think the part about him being confused as to Alpha is a good assessment. I 'kennel' him prior to feeding him. Yesterday I set him 'down' and rolled him to his back. Grabbed him by the stub and stretched out his throat. He was almost as tense as if ye was having a fit. He gets this a couple of times a day. I may get around to biting his ear.

Peed on his head often when he was younger.

The dog is truly a moron. Should not have been bred. Far too many quality traits are lacking.

He doesn't go around terrorizing the neighborhood.

I have owned or handled well over a hundred dogs. A conclusion I have is 'you cannot train into a dog a trait that is not there from birth.' A trainer merely polishes those traits.

Peter,"

quote:

miles 58 and other readers of this thread.

This correction is not for the faint of heart,but as a dog trainer you are sometimes brought dogs that start down the wrong path that you are asked to save. Their owners feel the dogs have value and don't want to put them down.
Its real easy to wash a dog out or have it put down instead of doing the work to clean up a problem the owners are most likely the cause of. Often the poor dog has been shocked or beat so often they don't understand correction any more.

You better be able to think out of the box. If you had studied pack behavior you would understand what I did is what the pack leader would do to a pack member who got out of hand. I don't have the dental ware or jaw necessary to grab them by the neck,so biting the ear had to do. The pack leader will often make another male summit by grabbing him by the balls. Pinning him with your weight and keeping control of the head via the collar or muzzle controls only one end , the balls make a good handle and mandate submission. I have done this with a 90 lb lab, you need all the control you can get,you real are in a dog fight and may get bite if you do not have total control. They are hard wired to understand that type of communication. I have used it 4 times to save dogs who were going to be put down, it worked for all 4 dogs. Peeing on a subordinate is something they do, its how they communicate,stop acting like little girls, it gets the point across in a way they understand ,its part of their social code. Its a tool you can use along with spitting in their food before feeding them if you are being tested.

You may certainly think I am a lunatic If you like, but I don't think Reading Cesar's book and buying a shock collar and passing a dog or 2 through akc hunt test makes you a dog trainer . I can train retrievers, pointers , tracking dogs. I can take your problem animals, if they are not to far gone and make good pets out of them and sometimes good working dogs.

I like and understand dogs better than most people, they don't lie or have hidden agendas, it does not take long to know where you stand with them. If you earn their respect and affection you will have it for the rest of their lives.

JD

It's worse than I thought.