Sir,
I gave away my Stony point tool years ago. It ain't too good. How hard is it to seat a bullet a little long and check the bullet ogive for the rifling marks? I know you claim to be a competition shooter, so tell me how it is different the way you are chasing a worn throat. I can adjust my seating depth a .001 at a time and see how it shoots. You better have that figured out before you get to the match.
Just offering a different perspective. My Melonite QPQ barrels are not wearing the throat.
Butch

No need to get all defensive and testy there butch.

I measure the erosion the same way, with the cleaning rod, rod stops, a caliper and bullet. I know it is preferable to accomplish this like HC says, using the exact same bullet that you used to set up the die. You're supposed to save that bullet in your die box.

I just do the check with a bullet from the 1000 ct. box I'm still using. The Lapua Scenars are excellent and have very little variance, if any at all.

The way you do it isn't really doing any kind of measurement at all! You are using trial and error seating .001" longer each time hopefully finding accuracy again then guessing how much it moved forward.

You think so RC? If you will check your posts you will find that you will get into a pissing match with anybody that doesn't agree with you. Well,
I have better things to do than piss on your feet.
Butch

quote:

I gave away my Stony point tool years ago. It ain't too good.

My gunsmith has been building match-winning rifles for 30 years and on Friday we were confirming my cleaning rod measured MOAL at the shop.

He held up the Stoney Point tool and said, and I quote...

quote:

This is my favorite way to do this.

He'll be crushed to find out that it sucks.

The problem I found with the Horn LNL (formerly stony Point) tool is that the reamed hole in the comparator is not the same (nor very close) to my barrels leade diameter. therefore the diameter the tool is referencing to is not the same the rifling begins to engage at.... By about 30 thou forward on the ogive.

Thoughts?

Ask RC, he has all the answers.
Butch

Gentlemen please......

Andrew,

That is indeed the case and Butch's solution addresses that very issue.

On the other hand it doesn't matter if the leade and the diameter of the hole bored into the comparator are not identical, as long as they are consistent.

As I understand it, the variable portion of the bullet tends to be the point and in good bullets the ogive tends to be fairly consistent ( especially if you've batched them by bearing surface length ) meaning that the 30 thou gap you've noticed stays the same.

I think it bears repeating also that the precise distance in thousands of an inch one comes up with by whatever method is not as important as keeping that distance the same every-time one loads a batch of rounds.

Thanks Ghubert.
Butch

Hey, Captain Bleedin'-obvious at your service sir!

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I gave away my Stony point tool years ago. It ain't too good. ...

Ah-Ha, the original "Thingy".

Lots of money totally wasted on these "Thingys" which end up misleading a lot of folks into thinking they are doing something with Precision Measurememnts. In reality the Measurements "change" if you just attempt to repeat the same Measurement with a Thingy.

Though they do stimulate the economy when folks waste money on them.
-----

A person should use whatever Method they find that will give Precise Repeatable Measurements for them. Which is NOT the situation with a Thingy.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Lots of money totally wasted on these "Thingys" which end up misleading a lot of folks into thinking they are doing something with Precision Measurememnts. In reality the Measurements "change" if you just attempt to repeat the same Measurement with a Thingy.

If there is a method that will give the exact same measurement every time, I've yet to see it.

It depends on so many places in the method where slight variances can occur---

How hard you force the bullet into the lands even with the Stoney Point tool.

Using a fire formed case with the tool that has no head space

How you set the rod stops with the cleaning rod method

Jag contact with the bullet tip

I think the most problem occurs with how hard you force the bullet into the rifling. You need to jam it in and hold it there hard and the measurements will be most consistent.

Despite your hatred for the Thingys, it does work great

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Despite your hatred for the Thingys, it does work great

Just hate to see the Beginners get PT Barnumed into thinking they need one for Accuracy. But if you are happy using one, then that is what you should use.

+1 HC
Butch

Have used Sinclair tools and caliper for a long time and the measurements can vary quite a bit due to pressure on the push rod/bullet set up.
I tend to take three measurements, average and go from there. Old timers would simply load a round, dummy, obviously longer than should be and press into chamber and it would stick. Lightly bounce butt of rifle on floor, round comes out, seat a bit deeper and repeat. When seating is such that the slightest of bump would release round, that was it. Very scientific I know, but been a long time since I employed the Sinclair tools and my loads seem to work just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Lots of money totally wasted on these "Thingys" which end up misleading a lot of folks into thinking they are doing something with Precision Measurememnts. In reality the Measurements "change" if you just attempt to repeat the same Measurement with a Thingy.

If there is a method that will give the exact same measurement every time, I've yet to see it.

It depends on so many places in the method where slight variances can occur---

How hard you force the bullet into the lands even with the Stoney Point tool.

Using a fire formed case with the tool that has no head space

How you set the rod stops with the cleaning rod method

Jag contact with the bullet tip

I think the most problem occurs with how hard you force the bullet into the rifling. You need to jam it in and hold it there hard and the measurements will be most consistent.

Despite your hatred for the Thingys, it does work great

I agree 100% with your assessment along with your caveats.

If you use either of these 2 methods then by far the largest variable is the first one, how hard you force the bullet into the lands. If you do it the same everytime then there is much less variance.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew cempa:
The problem I found with the Horn LNL (formerly stony Point) tool is that the reamed hole in the comparator is not the same (nor very close) to my barrels leade diameter. therefore the diameter the tool is referencing to is not the same the rifling begins to engage at.... By about 30 thou forward on the ogive.

Thoughts?

The stoney point comparators are .011" less than caliber (at least all of mine are)



In conjunction with the Stoney Point I use a commercially made SS rod with lockable collets and can get the same measurement everytime with the same bullet




Now, what was the question??