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I regularly hunt in area that gets windy ad shots are often 300 yards. I see Kestrels from a $75-$200 for wind and weather but I see many others for under $25. Is there really a difference? Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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Mike: It takes a hell of a wind to have much of an effect at 300 yards unless you are shooting something like a 35 Whelen. I have two different anemometers; not sure there is any difference, but would be reluctant to get one under $25. Most Kestrels have ballistic software. I have also learned that simply holding your anemometer up and assuming the wind is the same is generally a waste of time. Mirage is way better to judge wind, but if you don't see it, an anemometer is helpful. In my experience, add about 25-50% to the wind value you read. My guess is this is because your bullet flies higher than your anemometer, and generally to see something at long range means your bullets is flying quite high over the ground below (think valley, canyon, etc). To tell the truth, i carry a shock-corded pole with a wind flag on it and plunk it in front of me, especially if the wind is blowing toward or away from me (it never truly blows from 6 or 12, and those small angles are way more important than the velocity). | |||
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I dunno a 15 mph wind moves 165 gr 308 bullet ~9" @ 300. That is certainly enough to want to account for it. Push that 350 yards and its now 13 inches. The Kestrels with Ballistic software are not what I am talking about. Those start at $175 and go up to like 400. I am talking about a plain old wind meter. You said reluctant but why? The reason I ask is if I saw one brand under $25 I too would be suspect but I see many. Also, mirage isn't going to be present with overnight lows in 20s and day time temps in the 30s. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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AZ, don't you risk spooking game by erecting a windflag -- even a small one? This is an interesting thread. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Mirage will be there if the sun is out, especially if there is snow on the ground, but to see it you often need to focus between you and your target with a spotting scope or side parallax adjustment with higher power scope. A 28 Nosler shooting 195s at 3000 fps or a 300 Berger (from an Edge or Lapua) drifts less than 6 inches in that wind, but still, you certainly need to account for it. I don't know, maybe it is practice but I don't actually need to measure or estimate the wind to hit at 300. I was devastated Sunday when I shot at 500 in a stiff wind and hit as far out as five inches from my aiming point. I would steer clear of the cheaper anemometers for the simple reason of peace of mind; you are not saving that much. Bill: I practice with that wind flag all the time past 500, but would only use it for a really long shot. It is certainly less obtrusive than my spotting scope; the flag is a 2" cleaning patch on a piece of fishing line. If you really want to know, get a Trijicon Ventus when they come out - it uses lasers to measure wind every 100 yards out to 500 - and hopefully provide a solution based on the range past 500 (it will measure range out to 5K). Cost will be around 10k - I certainly plan on getting one. | |||
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AZ, your wind flag is ingenious! That Ventus sounds like a game-changer for doping wind. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Bill: That flag is typically only used when the wind is blowing toward or behind me, and here is why: A wind from 11 has a 1/2 value (hold left). A wind from 1 has 1/2 value but hold right. That is a total difference of 1, so my focus is much more on direction than speed. If the wind is coming from 8, it has a 91% value. From 10, it is also 91% - so the focus is speed much more so than direction. | |||
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The 300 grain TSX @ 2,500 fps even in a 10 MPH wind at 9 o'clock gets pushed round a lot. Range.....Windage (yd)......(in) 0.........0.0 100.......1.2 200.......5.1 300.......12.1 I've held 10" of windage with this load on a 300 yard shot on a zebra The only issue that I have with anemometers is that they only tell you the wind where you are and I think that the wind down range has the most effect. I know that it's an old argument with some people saying that a small deflection at the muzzle results in a larger error down range and other people saying that the wind affects the bullet more when the bullet slows down (because the velocity and BC is lower) and the bullet spends longer being exposed to the wind. I tend to think the latter since I usually use mirage just in front of the target to judge wind and it works better for me at the 1,000 yard matches. Winds change across even small distances. I know this is hard to see but there are three range flags each 200 yards apart and they are pointing in three different directions.  Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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air velocity was a big part of my business so i fooled around with several meters and the apparent difference between cheap and expensive were twofold. the expensive ones did much better job at low velocities and had a better accuracy. but so far as shooting goes you'd neverf know the difference | |||
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I finally got to my CO place this weekend; shot this morning. Temp was 10 deg. Snow on the ground. As soon as it got even a little light you could see the mirage (no cloud cover). In fact, I would have to say it is easier to see mirage over snow, esp if the sun is shining, than without snow. Another interesting observation: the "ding" of my bullet hitting my gong at 718 yards was noticeably muffled than this summer; I assume the snow soaked up the noise, or my hearing is even worse now than in July. | |||
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Butch, Thanks AZ Writer, So what do you do on a cloudy day? Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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What do I do when it is cloudy? If I can't see the mirage, my odds of hitting at extended ranges does go down, no doubt about it. I watch vegetation, but in AZ, nothing has leaves and it becomes pretty challenging. An anemometer is somewhat helpful, but like I said before, I rely on my portable wind flag more than an anemometer. But if shooting at 300 or 350, you just have to identify the direction; speed is really not that much of an issue. Yea, a 300 gr bullet plodding at 2500 is going to get blown by the wind, but if you think you face a reasonable chance at a 300-350 yard shot, why choose that? | |||
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