NOTE TO MODS: I put this question here because I did not know where to post it. PLEASE move it if you believe it posted to the wrong forum.

My question regards factory/mil-surp ammo. I understand that mil-surp ammo is only required to perform within 4 MOA. Could I improve my accuracy by sorting the ammo by weight?

I have a scale accurate to 1/10th grain up to 750 grains so I can weigh individual cartridges. Would it help me to spend a bit of time weighing and sorting the individual cartridges by weight?

I figure you guys here are the knowledgeable ones about this subject.

Thanks in advance

If you are really concerned about accuracy, learn to reload.

I would not depend on weighing the cartridges. You don't know if the difference is due to case, powder, or bullet.

You don't say what caliber and gun you are shooting.If you are shooting say a standard military issue (non match) Garand then I would suspect that you would be wasting your time. If you have a bolt action match gun in 30.06 then try an experiment: take ten rounds at random and 10 sorted by weight to say within 2 grains. You have to isolate and test one component at a time. Just my 2 cents!
Peter.

Another vote in the wasting your time column.

Thanks, AnotherAZWriter & Peter.

Didn't realize caliber would matter. Shooting .308 Win/7.62X51 NATO German made mil-surp in a FNAR.

Already preparing to hand load. Just trying to improve things to use up 600 rounds of ammo already bought. Guess I could save it for SHTF use. Just need to improve ammo inherent accuracy 'cause I'm shooting at the max accuracy of the ammo now (still learning to shoot) at 100 yds.

Worse comes to worst I can load the (berdan primed) cases with current projectiles. I'm trying to conserve scarce capital. Cannot hurt to try Peter's suggestion. Could even yank the projectiles from a dozen (or 2 or 3 or more) already weighed rounds and weigh projectiles and powder charge and see if I can find any trends - whether variations are more likely to be powder or projectile related.

Just now I have buckets of free time.

Many folks in matches have pulled the mil spec bullets and replaced them with SMK's keeping everything else the same.. I think the first thing is to establish what accuracy your FNAR is capable of. If you reload work up accuracy loads using 155 or 168 SMK's or, buy a box of "match" ammo. Then shoot your surplus for group. You can always use it for practice at standing and kneeling.
Peter.

I agree with Peter. A box of federal match is not that much and could tell you something about your rifle.

This whole thread is a complete exercise in futility. As said above a complete waste of time.

Firs t of all, let me just agree with the crowd in saying that it is generally a waste of time and money re-working military ammunition unless you've managed to get it and some decent bullets very cheaply.

The German ( I'm presuming it's MEN with nickelled bullets and Berdan primers ) blackspot stuff actually shoots pretty well in my Sako bolt action out to 600 yards or so, say around a minute and half to to two minutes if I do my part. There is usually not much to be gained by reworking this ammo and retaining all of it's components as it's fairly decent stuff. Having said that some over here have tried varying the seating depth of the rounds, both uniforming them and looking for a sweet spot in relation to the lands in their rifle.

The biggest gain seems to come from pulling and discarding the military bullet and either uniforming the powder charge between the cases, or working up and down a little to see if a better charge weight can be found, and seating a decent commercial bullet on top.

This guy did something similar to 5.56 Radway Green stuff but note that British 5.56 is boxer primed and so worth going to the trouble for saving. With berdan primed stuff I'm not sure I would go to the trouble.

http://www.shootforum.com/foru...opic.php?f=34&t=2741

Let us know how you get on.

As above, in general its a waste of time.

But you said you have a lot of free time.

The old "mexican match" ammo referred to above is an idea for you. Pull the bullet and reload the primed case with new powder and a match bullet. Not really that much a savings, but the bullet is probably over 90% of the equation.

If the ammo you have is mixed headstamps, sorting it to matching headstamps will give you some more accuracy, but not into the decent commercial ammo range.

Another thing I know some folks have done, but of questionable validity is pull the ammo from the same lot (same lot is essential) and resize the necks, reweigh the charges so they are identical, and weight the bullets so that you are using the identical weight bullet (within .5 grains) and reseating it to whatever OAL your gun likes.

According to the guy who I know who did this, you can get the ammo down to 1 MOA... but you have to be a decent handloader, and have A LOT of time. This was with a proven 3/4 MOA bolt gun.

You will also have a bunch of odds and ends that will be useless except as fowling shots also.

If you search to online ammo dealers you can find deals on .308 Winchester Match ammo. Hornady has a 155 grain A-Max match ammo that should give you decent accuracy out to 300 yards.

As put forth above, you need to establish a base line accuracy for your rifle by trying various loads/ammo/components. In your case start with good quality ammo. If your groups improve, then you can decide whether or not you should try reloading.

If the groups don't improve then you need to check your weapon. Good news is that you haven't dumped a bunch of money into reloading that will not help if the weapon is not capable. Just my opine.

Here's a refutation to most of the above. I recall reeading, I think in Precision Shooting, of a team of Americans at a British match where all teams were required to use gov. issue ammo. The American team sorted the ammo by weight and gained a significant advantage.

I use this method with my handloaded hunting ammo, not so much for added accuracy but as an extra check that I might have underloaded a round.

Thanks for the sage advice, all, whether pro or con on sorting ammo.

For grins and giggles on a day when I wasn't babysitting my grandson for my daughter, I weighed two boxes of the German surplus. I found a total weight variance of just under 2 grains for the lot. For more g&g I weighed 50 or so of the 147 grain Winchester mfg FMJBT projectiles I bought through Midway USA. Got nearly 1.5 grain total variance with NONE of the projectiles being actually AT the nominal weight - all were heavy with the closest being .2 grains heavy.

Is that normal? Which is more critical to consistent muzzle velocity, charge weight or projectile weight? I think I understand the physics well enough to figure that muzzle velocity variances would combine with barrel resonance to affect consistency in both azimuth and elevation. Am I correct in that?


A wise man recognizes that not only does he not know everything but that he does not even know how much or little he knows.
An humble man is willing to admit that he doesn't know and seek counsel of those more knowledgeable than himself.

Mullins, where accuracy is concerned, the most important component of ammunition is the bullet. The most important aspect of the bullet is uniform jacket thickness.

Don't expect match grade accuracy out of mass produced military bullets. If you want match accuracy reload either Match bullets, or some Nosler Ballistic tips. In several of my rifles the NBT's will out shoot the match bullets.

It could be fun to pull some of those 147gr milspec bullets and replace them with some 150gr NBTs.

Heck I might try that.

I do not think it would make much difference up close, say under 600 yards...

Brice is correct.

Palma Match shooters in the International Championships have shot factory ammo in the past.
In the distant it was actually the 7.62mm Military ammo of the host nation.
All shooters shot the same ammo.

Some of the teams would weigh the loaded ammo and sort it by weight.

I also know some long range shooters that weigh even their handloads. Then they will start shooting from the lightest, to the heaviest, or the other way around it does not make any difference which direction you start.

Many think it reduces the verticle dispersion caused by differences in loaded ammo weight.

The verticle dispersion develops as the different weight rounds are shot.

This is better than the up and down dispersion changing from shooting a lighter round and then a heavier round, in random order.

As we know Targer shooters can be kinda fussy, but many matches have been won by one x or one point.


Still at ranges under 600 yards in a Military semiauto I do not think it would be worth the trouble.

But, you never know till you try...