Or both?

Plenty of posts like, "That's not 'hunting', that's 'shooting'"

I've also seen, "It's all 'shooting' after he's in your sights"

"Why didn't he try to get closer? That shot was just a 'stunt'!"

Some guys have no idea how to hunt. How to walk in the field. How to use terrain to get close. How to use the wind. Some guys are poor marksmen. Their skills with their weapon, whether it be a rifle, shotgun, or bow border on a Failing grade.

Obviously being an expert at both is optimal, but which one is MOST important TO YOU?

Whichever area you are most deficient in is the most important. For me the hunting skills are in need of improvement. I'm thinking of getting a nice camera and doing some summer time hunting. Any ideas would be appriciated.

quote:

Obviously being an expert at both is optimal, but which one is MOST important?

In my opinion it varies from hunt to hunt and animal to animal. Sometimes shooting skills are the most important and other times its hunting skills to get you in place for ANY shot long or short.
Someone may say that a Moose is a huge target so plenty of room to hit him where it counts, don't really need an accurate rifle but that same Moose walking in thick stuff may not show that big target and you may need all the shooting skills you posess to get a bullet in him on target.
The most successful hunter is one who can shoot expertly within "his or her" limits and stalk or hunt themselves into that position for a shot regardless of the length (long or short)of the shot.
As most of us have I have had some very difficult short shots and some easy long shots, not all hunts, shots or animals are the same
Just something to think about......

Which ever one puts meat in the freezer.

I should have asked which of the two is most important to YOU.

Bowhunting is a story all to itself. You have to be able to hunt and get close. Every hunter should at least try it. After getting close, you still have to be proficient with the bow.

Hunting ablility is needed with rifle hunting as well, but I believe at a lesser degree.

Shotgunning for birds? You better be able to shoot well or you're not going to put much in the bag.

quote:

Bowhunting is a story all to itself. You have to be able to hunt and get close. Every hunter should at least try it. After getting close, you still have to be proficient with the bow.

Hunting ablility is needed with rifle hunting as well, but I believe at a lesser degree.

Shotgunning for birds? You better be able to shoot well or you're not going to put much in the bag.

A lot of truth here

Ive been finding that more people are "interested" in long range shots than bagging them, NOW.
In the past I have copped a fair bit of shit "unfair,unethical thats not hunting bla bla" from "old school hunters" yep them same guys that will drive around at night and spotlight deer, NOT ILLEAL IN NZ BY THE WAY ON PRIVATE LAND.

It would seem that attitudes are changing and a understand that the skill and time involved is a bit more than lie down and shoot.
Yes we have PDAs balistic programs, wind meters etc etc which may seem to the laeman makes it all easy, punch in information presto answer, dial, load, shoot.
But as explain to people that takes out about 50% of the equation, the rest is up to experience/skill to estimate all other conditions and make the judgement call on final decision.
I think in any sport there will be the purists, their way or no way, it is a no win situation.
For dick heads that get really pissed about the whole thing I suggest they get rid of their "fancy clothes and boots" and put on a loin cloth, and the knife on the belt, take that and sharpen a stick and go "hunting".
Discussions normally end fairly soon after that.

RUNAS

Personally I don't like when people assume that those of us who set up for shots in the 2-300 yard range can't hunt. Yes anyone can sit on a power line and hope a deer comes by and stops to giva a shot. However knowing the farms or land you hunt and knowing where deer will regularly show up, travel to and stop for a clean shot takes some time in the woods. Before I moved out of the woods and into the fields I spent several summers groundhog hunting and studying the way the deer on the couple farms I hunt traveled. Then I calculated how the people that hunt those farms would affect them come hunting season.

I can now put myself in several places depending on weather or hunting pressure I can take time to decide if the deer is legal or to my liking. No need to rush a shot and I don't bother the guys in the woods.

I probably shoot more rounds per month at ranges out to 300 yards staying ready for season than most average hunters do all year.

So while it is obvious shooting is important to me I feel I have done my share of hunting getting ready for the actual shooting. The difference for me is I now put myself in a position where I can cover the most area that will produce being at best I get three days during the rifle season to get out and hunt.

When I want to get in close and personal I take my flintlock during the ML seasons however I seldom get time to even do that.

So if some of you folks who think I am not ethical, tough. They are animals nothing more and nothing less from that 7x7 bull Elk to that prairie dog, and man is the overseer of them. I don't stop others from hunting as they wish nor condone them.

quote:

Is it the "Shooting" or the "Hunting"?

The title of this thread sounds more like a comercial, remember this one "is it real or is it Memorex"

If you expect to hit game, you gotta be confident in your rifle, long or short range. Just ask those who dust off the rifle every deer season and then miss, or wound a deer.

quote:

Is it the "Shooting" or the "Hunting"?

Or both?

Plenty of posts like, "That's not 'hunting', that's 'shooting'"

I've also seen, "It's all 'shooting' after he's in your sights"

"Why didn't he try to get closer? That shot was just a 'stunt'!"

Some guys have no idea how to hunt. How to walk in the field. How to use terrain to get close. How to use the wind. Some guys are poor marksmen. Their skills with their weapon, whether it be a rifle, shotgun, or bow border on a Failing grade.

Obviously being an expert at both is optimal, but which one is MOST important TO YOU?

For me, I try to be as proficient as I can in all areas. I can stalk, still hunt, kill with the bow, and reach out to ranges with my rifles, and handguns, that make folks say the things you posted.

I practice through out the year to be proficient in my shooting. I feel that 500yds is my limit on game, with hogs I might reach out just a tad further depending on which rifle I have with me.

I hunt varied terrain where I might be overlooking a wide open 800 acre cotton field, where shots could be as far as I wanted to shoot. On the same property, I might be in stuff so thick that a 20yd shot would be considered long. This said I might also be slipping through the edges of the thick stuff with wide open pastures within view.

The deer and hogs in this area do not mind the open as they can see forever across the wide flat pastures. Personally I would much rather take out a 250# hog or several in the 150# range than a nice fat 8 point buck. This said, this area has some extraordinary deer for the habitat, and at any moment the buck of a lifetime might step out. I hunt to put meat in the freezer, and I shoot it in order to facilitate that process.

I also will not shoot at anything regardless of the range, or how many points it has, or how bad I want it, unless I have the shot I want and feel it is a kill shot. If I am not comfortable, I walk away happy with the privilege of being able to have been there and been close. Just like when I went to CO for Mule Deer and Elk, I could have easily come away form the hunt with empty coolers had I not been able to make the shot "I" wanted and not the shot I was forced to take.

I see many folks posting " I use the XXXX bullet so when I have to make a raking shot", or " you need this bullet so your not left standing there empty handed when you could shoot from end to end.

To me this is slob hunting at it's finest. It take no skill to shoot an animal in the rear "hoping" to get the bullets to the vitals. It also is usually these same people that raise the most dust when someone speaks of shooting game at extended ranges.

IMO, I put in the time, effort, and practice with my equipment, to shoot accurately from field positions, know the loads/ bow & arrows, and how they perform, and it's my decision on how far I will shoot when the time comes. When I DO decide to make the shot, if I miss, it will be with the bow at 20-30yds, and not the rifle.

quote:

I also will not shoot at anything regardless of the range, or how many points it has, or how bad I want it, unless I have the shot I want and feel it is a kill shot. If I am not comfortable, I walk away happy with the privilege of being able to have been there and been close. Just like when I went to CO for Mule Deer and Elk, I could have easily come away form the hunt with empty coolers had I not been able to make the shot "I" wanted and not the shot I was forced to take.

I see many folks posting " I use the XXXX bullet so when I have to make a raking shot", or " you need this bullet so your not left standing there empty handed when you could shoot from end to end.

To me this is slob hunting at it's finest. It take no skill to shoot an animal in the rear "hoping" to get the bullets to the vitals. It also is usually these same people that raise the most dust when someone speaks of shooting game at extended ranges.

Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:


Hunting, or shooting Or both?

Plenty of posts like, "That's not 'hunting', that's 'shooting'"

I've also seen, "It's all 'shooting' after he's in your sights"

"Why didn't he try to get closer? That shot was just a 'stunt'!"

Some guys have no idea how to hunt. How to walk in the field. How to use terrain to get close. How to use the wind. Some guys are poor marksmen. Their skills with their weapon, whether it be a rifle, shotgun, or bow border on a Failing grade.

Obviously being an expert at both is optimal, but which one is MOST important TO YOU?

R,

So many ways to go with a reply. Heck even a fellow like me that does not shoot long range could make a reply to a question such as the one you ask.
So let me start by addressing your question this way

As to the guys in general that do not know how to hunt, I say………
Some have no passion for hunting or shooting.
Some are too stupid to figure it out.
Some are new to the hunting and shooting world and have no “mentor” other than what they see on the “Hunting Shows”.

However there is also the converse,

For some, hunting is literally called out of their very being. It’s more who they are and what they are. They have had a desire to be in the field observing “life” from the first opportunity they were able to avail themselves of, no matter what their age, and despite life’s circumstances they take every advantage of pursuing their passion/obsession. Why, because to hunt is to live. Once can be six years old in his back yard hunting his quarry whether it be lizards or doodle bugs. One can be sixty recovering from surgery stuck in a recliner, yet in his mind creating mental images of his plans for next season.

I personally make no division between “shooting” and “hunting”, at least by the way I think. If you will allow, here is a story to illustrate my point.

Reminiscing, some of my earlier memories. When I was 10, my family moved to an area that had at least a couple thousand acres of woods across the bayou from my house. I say that because it was about a half mile from my house to the railroad track that bordered the state highway. That pasture was bordered on the north and south by traffic arteries that ran east and west about 2 miles apart, with no roads that crossed the RR track in between. Before and after school I could/would run the bayou, woods and railroad ROW.
I got a Daisy pump BB gun shortly after we moved there. Had a magazine you could put 50 BBs in and screw it back in. For some reason I came up with the goal of killing a 1,000 birds a year with that BB gun. I found out soon, to do that I had to kill at least three birds a day. That meant I had to go out both before and after school each day and kill at least three birds or the next day I had to kill at least six.
Well you have iron sights on a BB gun. However it didn’t take long to realize that if I’d track the BB in flight I became much more proficient at hitting my target than if I used the sights. I also soon learned that if you were a “ways” off from larger birds such as “jack dawks” (grackles), and pigeons, unless you hit them in the neck or head, they’d just fly away. So, soon I learned to make sure I got close enough to my quarry that my BB hit everything I shot either in the head or neck. Then they would drop and flop, but I didn’t have to try to find them or retrieve them from a briar patch. To my mother’s chagrin, I also kept the wings of most every bird I shot. I would not keep the wings if they weren’t perfect. A BB through a feather left less than a perfect set of wings. The rare specimens I would tack up on a piece of plywood in our garage.
I also soon learned that birds were attracted to figs, especially jays and cardinals. Jays were prized as they were hard to sneak up on. I figured out I could wear dark clothing and hide inside the braches of a large fig whose boughs would touch the ground. I could then pop the largest of the birds that came to the figs from a distance of less than 10 feet. Sometimes I could take fifteen or twenty birds at a time. That would give me the weekend off.
The railroad ROW mentioned above, was great for shooting doves and pigeons. There was tall Johnson grass all along the ROW. I could spy doves sitting on the power lines that bordered the tracks, then mark the location, cross behind some box cars , walk to a point near the last box car, the slip into the tall grass and go to a point directly across from the birds. Easy pickins’. Bear in mind, I was 10, this was 1960. I knew nothing about hunting season or conservation. My dad or no one I knew hunted. I was a savage hunter on a mission.

To this date, the acquisition of a rifle, the decision whether to scope and choice of scope, the crafting of the “round” that will be used, the direction to the point of impact of the bullet, and the distance at which that point of impact will be effected, is directed toward the taking of the bird or animal that I plan to kill. Most often this is with the intention of “making meat”.

Best

GWB

Great story GW! Thanks for the insightful input.

I think rifle hunting requires a number of skills including woodsmanship, marksmanship, and being sure your weapon is adequate. I think long range hunting emphasizes the last two a lot more than the first one. I guess there are plenty of short range hunters with better woodsmanship skills than me who would criticize the way I hunt. I might not criticize them but when I see them shooting a 4-inch 100-yard group at the range that is off a few inches from a perfect zero and say its good enough to hit a deer, I have to wonder what they are thinking.