AnotherAz and ghubert,
I agree 100 percent, that range time under different weather situations is great, required even. But if a fellow has no base line to start with where does he start. Thus the 3 day course.

You are very correct in saying if you mess up estimating size of target you will be way off. Again, practice reading objects of varying size. Lazer is always more accurate than reticle, but for me I want to learn and be proficient with both skill sets.

I have tagged multiple animals over 500 yards in the mountains and plains. Pron
Baby was more lucky than good. After several shooting "schools" I now at least know what I did not know.

I don't mean to criticize you Brent, I'm just trying to point out that the grounding you're after can be had by joining a Target Shooting club that does long range ( Over here it would be F-class or Target Rifle, others are better placed to tell you what the equivalents in the US would be.

I'm not sure where you are but a Google search revealed this place as likely to have the sort of guys you want to meet.: http://www.quanticoshootingclu...ompetition-rifle.php It seems they have ranges out to 1000 yards.

My only point was that if you but a rifle suitable for one of these long range disciplines and join a club you will get the sort of tuition you would be paying for on the course and have it every week.


Bargain.

Gentlemen, seems to me there are two different things going on here in terms of "long range shooting". I suspect that the OP meant "long range shooting at variable and unknown distances". The target shooting disciplines are all about high precision at known long range distances. The target shooter is all about practice, reading the wind, mirage etc. The other discipline is all about equipment and 'show me your rig". IMHO unless you have the facilities to shoot regularly at 600 yards and over you are wasting your money no matter what you buy. This is doubly true because unless you are at a target range, how will you know where your shots hit? Spotting scopes are only good out to 300 yards or so, so you need someone else to help you here. Equipment only gets you so far. Now, to answer an unasked question, why not order the CD "The Long Range Shooting Simulation" from www.shooteready.com? I have it and it is quite good. I refer to it regularly.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Gentlemen, seems to me there are two different things going on here in terms of "long range shooting". I suspect that the OP meant "long range shooting at variable and unknown distances". The target shooting disciplines are all about high precision at known long range distances. The target shooter is all about practice, reading the wind, mirage etc. The other discipline is all about equipment and 'show me your rig". IMHO unless you have the facilities to shoot regularly at 600 yards and over you are wasting your money no matter what you buy. This is doubly true because unless you are at a target range, how will you know where your shots hit? Spotting scopes are only good out to 300 yards or so, so you need someone else to help you here. Equipment only gets you so far. Now, to answer an unasked question, why not order the CD "The Long Range Shooting Simulation" from www.shooteready.com? I have it and it is quite good. I refer to it regularly.
Peter.

I shoot at painted rocks. Yesterday I did it at 820 and had no problem. Bullet splashes make a white mark on black paint.

In order to shoot in the wind, you need to get feedback after every shot.

Thanks for the comment. You are absolutely correct, you do need feedback, whether shooting at rocks or shooting at targets. What rifle were you shooting? I can tell you from personal experience that you cannot see dirt splashes at 800 yards when using a 223. When using a 308, you (or rather your spotter) can see dirt splashes if they are using a scope. My point was that you need assistance. Another body. Whether a spotter, there with you, or a scorer, down range close to the target. What size rock were you shooting at? In any case, I think you have made my point about the two different kinds of "long range shooting" that I believe were being discussed. Additionally, presumably if you hit the rock you were happy? A target or F class shooter wants to hit the middle of the rock!
Peter.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Thanks for the comment. You are absolutely correct, you do need feedback, whether shooting at rocks or shooting at targets. What rifle were you shooting? I can tell you from personal experience that you cannot see dirt splashes at 800 yards when using a 223. When using a 308, you (or rather your spotter) can see dirt splashes if they are using a scope. My point was that you need assistance. Another body. Whether a spotter, there with you, or a scorer, down range close to the target. What size rock were you shooting at? In any case, I think you have made my point about the two different kinds of "long range shooting" that I believe were being discussed. Additionally, presumably if you hit the rock you were happy? A target or F class shooter wants to hit the middle of the rock!
Peter.
Peter.

Peter:

I put a 3 inch orange circle on the rock and the rest is painted black. Anything more than 6 inches away from center of that 3 inch circle is a miss. I don't shoot at dirt for the reason you state - besides, the spotter's perception of a dirt splash may not even be correct.

When you shoot at rocks, you can see exactly where it hit because it leaves a mark. The size of the mark is a function of the range, the bullet energy and mass, and how many times the rock has been hit (after a while, even hard rock begins to fragment pretty good).

Trust me, I don't need a spotter to see where each bullet has hit. In fact, you often don't even need to paint the rock, but after a while, there are too many bullet splashes to keep track.

Thursday I was shooting a .300 RUM and a .300 SAUM at 820 yards. The SAUM has a Horus scope. The wind was pretty strong, so I held 2 mils windage, which is 59 inches of drift. I held on the 5.3 mil line (actually between the 5.2 and 5.4 line) for elevation and hit about 4 inches high and five inches to the left. I then shot my RUM; I didn't think the wind was a strong so I held about 2.5 MOA with 14 clicks above my 700 yard zero. I hit about 1 inch low and 4 inches right (3 MOA would have been better). Both of these shots were from the sitting position using a bipod and shooting sling in a position I have written about quite a bit. But to shoot game under these conditions is BS. I certainly could have missed, since the TOF would easily allow the wind to change enough to miss. So I stick to rocks. But it does make 500 yard shots seem pretty easy...