So me and a couple guys that work for me have been tossing around the idea of setting up some long range rifles to fool around with for fun, nothing serious....yet.
I was thinking about starting with a Savage 110 BA, in 300 Win Mag or 338 Lapua, topping it with a
US Optics ER-25 5-25X or a Nightforce Precision Benchrest like a 8-32 or 12-42
Scope being more important to me than rifle manufacturer to some extent, and certainly the area that I know the least about, in regards to tactical or precision rifle scopes.

Question 1: Can I make a 300 Win Mag into a accurate 1500 to 2000 yard tool or should I be looking harder at the larger 338?
Question 2: What scope magnitude of power would be considered the minimum and/or maximum for shooting 500 - 2000 yards?
Question 3: Is the Savage I mentioned a capable firearm or should I be looking at some other manufacturer or a custom build
Question 4: Which of the optics I have selected is prefered, and is their another manufacturer that would be recommended.

I am assuming and prepared that I will need to invest up to or around 10K. Good advise is appreciated

thanks

Rory

Have shot a lot of 1000yd. matches over the years, but you are really getting out there!
Good for you and as for optics, the U.S.Optics is indeed a quality glass as well as the Nightforce. Own U.S.Optics, older 1x4 for AR, and they are tough as nails. Either optics you mention would be up to the task I would think, your choice. The 300Win.Mag. is an excellent long range caliber, but if you are going out to the 2000yd. line would have to opt for the 338Lapua, outstanding long range capability for it is now a common caliber with military around the world for such extreme shots. Compared to Savage rifles of yesteryear the current ones seem to be quite popular and do well from what I have been told by shooters who use them. Going the custom route you may have to enlarge your budget a bit, perhaps 25%?? Proper stock, sight system(base/rings/scope,) quality barrel, action, quality bi pod/rest, all add up quickly for such a rifle. Your most economical route would be the Savage w/ good optics and could do that well under the budget you mention. Can't be more specific for you are "out of my range," but just some suggestions.

I am tending to lean towards the higher magnification Nightforce if I go with the 338. Probably the 5-25 if I decide to go the 300 route as I am leaning.
I would guess most shooting would be under 1500 yards, which from most articles I have read right on the border of what a 300 win mag is capable of with the lighter bullet.
Being a western hunter my whole life, yardages out to about 500 have been the norm in preparing a rifle and I am pretty confident in pie plate accuracy with most of my dialed in stuff to that distance and maybe a bit beyond. My go to hunting rifle is a 300 win mag in the TC Pro Hunter, very accurate with the 4-14 Leapold 30 mm scope on it. I can consistently tag the 12" x 12" 600 yard gong at the local firing range. Not tactical or precision shooting by any means.
1000 yard + is a whole new experience for me, anxious to get into it

I think a 300 RUM, if you are going the 30 caliber. There are some fine 240gr VLD-style bullets available.

The 338 caliber seems to be the current darling of the XLR shooters. Since your plan is custom, the 338 Edge (FL RUM case) would be my pick.

A Savage FTR with a Leupold would be a great entry level rifle, and by time you are good enough past 1000yds that it limits you, you will have shot with the big boys enough to know what will best suit you.

I have an old Savage 112 BV-SS single shot in 7STW that is competitive and consistent accuracy wise as far downrange as I have gotten. I had a Leupold 6.5-20 boosted to 18-42X and windage dots installed by Premier Reticle years ago.

My next one will be on an old HV 12" sleeve 700 in 338 Edge. JES is going to bore my old 257 Banshee out, and chamber it. About 16 lbs with scope.

Good Luck, and let us know what you choose.

Rich

I think your on to something. The Savage 110 BA is only manufactured in 300 win mag or 338 Lapua, but the action can be converted to a 300 RUM at some point and a new barrel inset if I want to expand my range and tinker a bit

the 300 WM would only need to be rechambered, if it were a single shot. You are going to want, imho, the added rigidity of the solid bottom receiver anyway.

The 300WM is definitely capable of making hits at 1500-200 range, though it is certainly not ideal for those distances. I think you would find that the 338 LM with 300gn bullets is a significant step up when shooting at those distances. If you do go with a 30 cal mag, I would be laying in a good stock of Berger 215 or 230gn OTM bullets.

If you were certain that you wanted a LR rifle, then I would recommend a build based on a custom action, particularly for a 338 LM. However since it sounds like you want to dip your toe in the water at this stage, I would recommend buying either a factory rifle in a suitable caliber, or looking for a second hand custom build. That way you can move them on with minimal out of pocket cost if you decide you dont like shooting ELR.

Another advantage of buying factory / second hand before graduating to a custom build is that you will get some first hand experience of what you like, before you commit to a custom build. I find that what you envisage that you want is often different to what you find actually want once you have shot a long range a bit. Then you can buy a custom rifle with exactly the stock/ bolt/port configuration, etc that you want.

For optics, I think Nightforce is a very cost effective option. You get a lot of optic for the price. Just remember that the magnification range is a trade off. You get more internal adjustment in the lower magnification ranges - eg a 3.5-15 NSX has 110 MOA, vs the NXS 8-32 which has 65 MOA. And you want all the adjustment you can get at ELR, even with a 20 - 40 MOA offset pic rail base. Higher magnification will let you see your target better in ideal conditions, but once you get a bit of mirage (and you will get plenty at ELR) you will be turning down the magnification to see the target anyway. So optics choice is another juggling act you will have to contend with, and experience will help you decide whats really important to you.

Lastly, budget for a good wind meter like a Kestrel, and a good ballistics app, then go out and have some fun!

If you want to buy more gun stuff I'm all for it, but you might try shooting long range with something you already have to get a feel for it. When conditions are nice the local F-class guys pull out their 223's, so you don't necessarily need something big. If there are any long range matches in your area, you could attend and see what it's all about. I'm pretty sure people would be happy to talk to you about it and would even let you send a few downrange.

As you may already know (or will find out quickly), there's a big difference between 500 and 2000 yards. At 2000, I'd suggest you start with the bullet and build around that. Check out the 300grain 338 berger, for example.

quote:

Question 1: Can I make a 300 Win Mag into a accurate...

Yes, but at 2k you'll wish you had the 338.

quote:

Question 2: What scope magnitude...

22x is a good starting point. Higher is nice when conditions are good, but not essential. When there's much mirage, more is not very helpful, and more makes it harder to get back on target to spot impacts. Also, higher magnification usually means less vertical adjustment range.

quote:

Question 3: Is the Savage I mentioned a capable firearm...

Yes. It's a decent starting point, and pretty easy to re-barrel.

quote:

Question 4: Which of the optics...

I think the NSX range of Nightforce would be a better option for long range. I don't think the benchrest models have as much vertical adjustment range. Calculate how much drop you'll have at 2k... Also, there's some good info here:

http://precisionrifleblog.com/...est-results-summary/

You could buy a Sako TRG ready to shoot in either caliber. Put your scope of choice on in some Badgers rings and you have good equipment from Day 1. Get some loaded ammo from Gun Werks. For that matter one of my buds got a whole set up from GunWerks. He paid in your range or more. But he got his moneys worth but he hasn't got out to the distances you are trying for either.

Some of the equipment that I have seen and helped some of my serious long range buddies with is in the ammo loading. A really good set of scales is $2500 or so. You will likley need it sooner than later.

When I started thinking about 'beyond' 1000 yards, really thinking of 1 mile, I built off the 408 Chey Tac case. Single shot Stiller action, 338-408 improved (Big Baer). 300gr Sierra Matchking at 3200fps. A Lapua won't come close to that by 300fps. I haven't shot the bergers out of it yet but if you're seriously looking at up to $10,000 investment I would look at a minimum a long throated 338 Lapua Mag on a single shot custom action. You can do all that and a great Nightforce scope for less than the limit you state. I have a 338 Lapua AI reamer that some friends have gotten right at 3000fps with the 300gr Bergers. Plug those #'s into a ballistic app and it's evident that a BC over .8 at 3000fps or more is just plain impressive.

TexKD

quote:

A really good set of scales is $2500 or so. You will likley need it sooner than later.

What are you talking about? $2500.00?

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
TexKD

quote:

A really good set of scales is $2500 or so. You will likley need it sooner than later.

What are you talking about? $2500.00?

He is probably thinking of the Prometheus or the Denver instruments. I use a redding and get es in the single digits so i don't see the need for the high end scales. However i lust for a Prometheus.

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Originally posted by Abbispa:

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
TexKD

quote:

A really good set of scales is $2500 or so. You will likley need it sooner than later.

What are you talking about? $2500.00?

He is probably thinking of the Prometheus or the Denver instruments. I use a redding and get es in the single digits so i don't see the need for the high end scales. However i lust for a Prometheus.

Yes he got the Prometheus and says it is tops. I haven't used it- yet. I am going to see what Rifles Inc has to say about a rig for me. . . or I may just snag a Sako myself.

I too only have a couple of RCBS digitals and a couple of their mechanical scales too.

The same guy above has several of the Sakos - yes I hate him lol.

To add to the thread, he uses Schmidt and Bender almost exclusively on his rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by matt salm:
When I started thinking about 'beyond' 1000 yards, really thinking of 1 mile, I built off the 408 Chey Tac case. Single shot Stiller action, 338-408 improved (Big Baer). 300gr Sierra Matchking at 3200fps. A Lapua won't come close to that by 300fps. I haven't shot the bergers out of it yet but if you're seriously looking at up to $10,000 investment I would look at a minimum a long throated 338 Lapua Mag on a single shot custom action. You can do all that and a great Nightforce scope for less than the limit you state. I have a 338 Lapua AI reamer that some friends have gotten right at 3000fps with the 300gr Bergers. Plug those #'s into a ballistic app and it's evident that a BC over .8 at 3000fps or more is just plain impressive.

No one has mentioned a good spotting scope; invaluable for reading the mirage at long range. A wind anemometer is just about worthless past 700 or so yards.

I can't argue with the math of a Chey Tac case, but the recoil has got to be getting up there, even with a brake. More importantly, you need to shoot often to judge the wind. Show me a guy who shoots every week with a .308 Win vs one who shoots a .300 WM once every few months, and I know who I am betting on. Another disadvantage to extreme velocity: the Bergers tend to be finicky about land offset, and extreme velocity can cause that offset to change after as few as 100 rounds.

As for the Edge or the Lapua, I will take the Lapua, although my Edge smoked it at 800 and 1290 yards this week. But my lowly Savage Lapua with 285 AMAX bullets is more accurate than my Stiller Edge. My next gun: a Stiller Lapua.