Cigar lighter accessory also works surprisingly well as a recoil tamer.

This is an old 350 about 1990 ish. Has a nice tapered jacket.

Thanks Bill, how do you guys find the Speer 350-grain flat-nosed bullet works on elk at lower velocities?

Sorry if I've told this story in this forum but I don't recall the Speer bullet being of interest to anyone else in it before.

Anyway, I bought some thinking they were what Atkinson recommended (but it was the Hornady he liked).

I began with ADI's starting load of 48.5 grains of AR2207 but it already seemed too hot in my rifle, flattening primers and enlarging the expansion ring in front of the solid head by about 7 thou (IIRC) instead of the 3 thou I'd become used to with all other loads and factory ammo. (my method is to have one side of the micrometer stem touching the rim and measure the point where the other side closes on the expansion ring.)

I notice the meplat on these bullets only just covers the primer, too, hardly reassuring.

So, I'll either have to pull the bullets in the higher loads I'd loaded and back off from the claimed 2035fps starting load or give the bullets away and try something else.

.458 350gr Mag Tip isn't suitable for the .45-70 Marlin because it has to be seated with the cannelure below the case neck to cycle through the action so haven't used it on game at Marlin velocities.

However the .416 350gr Mag Tip at around 2300 fps impact speed goes clear through Elk broadside. Stoutly constructed bullets those Mag Tips as shown in the photo above.

Sixteen, I have a box of those Speer .416s and have drawn a few down to .411 in a Lee sizer for use in my .400 Whelen built by dpcd. Haven't shot them yet, but believe your performance forecast. They are very hard to draw down! I have to do it in a bench vise.

4-16....when is your shoulder surgery?
i have 3 45-70s, 4 if u count the pistol, and anything over 1100 fps using a 350 or 405 cast makes my already operated on shoulder call me bad names.

Heh, John, I am "easily influenced" by recoil, and will admit that the Speer 400 at anything beyond 1700 in either a Marlin Cowboy or that brutal Baikal double that Remington briefly imported made my eyes water. Not as bad as patterning 12-gauge turkey loads, but not far behind.

i also have a marlin cowboy and when that metal buttplate hits my shoulders metal sparks fly. be fore the surgery it wasn't an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
.458 350gr Mag Tip isn't suitable for the .45-70 Marlin because it has to be seated with the cannelure below the case neck to cycle through the action so haven't used it on game at Marlin velocities.

However the .416 350gr Mag Tip at around 2300 fps impact speed goes clear through Elk broadside. Stoutly constructed bullets those Mag Tips as shown in the photo above.

Have you tried the Hornady brass? It is shorter than most other brands and maybe will crimp into the cannelure. If that works for you, you could always trim other brands to the same length - can't help case capacity, of course.

Right, Hornady LeverEvolution brass. Innovative idea. Shorter so the case neck should line up with the 350gr Speer Mag Tip cannelure not to exceed maximum OAL to cycle through the action. I will give that a try.

.45-70 LeverEvolution brass measures 52mm. Starline brass measures 54mm. With the 350gr Mag Tip seated to the cannelure in the .45-70 LE brass OAL is 68mm.

Speer lists .45-70 maximum OAL as 2.55" or 64.8mm. So the LE brass Mag Tip round is 3.2mm too long. Don't think it will cycle through the action.

Shorten a pc. of brass and try one.

Eager to see how the 400gr .45-70 Barnes Buster performs. Straight thru penetration. Same load - 1800 fps mv in my 18-1/2" barrel Marlin GBL or 1850 fps mv in my 22" barrel G2. Don't think a .45 needs to expand much anyhow.

Looking back I realise the 350-greain Speer bullets I've got are just Hot Core, not Mag Tip. Has anyone tried the Hot Cores on elk with the .45-70 at velocities lower than 1950fps?

Also, 4sixteen, have you tried the Lee Factory Crimp die? It claims (and seems) to crimp bullets whether or not there is a cannelure in the place needed.

Problem is the 350gr Mag Tip when seated to the maximum OAL the case neck is on the ogive of the bullet.

There is a reason that there is a 12.75 degree taper into the rifling. Not sure what other shorter cartridges can be shot in this chamber. Always thought it was a military decision.

Speer 350gr .458 (and .416) Hot Cor are Mag Tip -

https://www.speer-ammo.com/pro...ed_skucaliber_s=.416

I would just use the Hornady 350s.

Has anyone tried the 250 Mono Flex?

I have shortened the case to 1.8" and shot them out of my 45/70, but never shot game with them. Yet! They group well at 50 yds. [250 Mono]

Thanks guys,
My .458 bullets have the same catalogue number as yours, 4sixteeen, but no mention of being 'mag tip'. By the sheen on the picture, it certainly looks to need a rifle with some throat, not just a leade.

I will get some of the Hornady 350s but start them a bit slower than the books recommend.

Performance characteristics -

"Speer's Mag-Tip fluted jacket and flat tip provide better expansion at velocities lower than many spitzers, yet its heavy jacket shank allows you to shoot these at very high velocities before bullet breakup occurs. These bullets also hold together better because the Hot-Cor process eliminates the lead oxide layer that's found between the core and jacket of conventional "cold core" bullets, thus reducing core slippage. This translates into a bullet that offers the deeper penetration and greater expansion needed for taking larger game..."

https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...010540385?pid=440155

I might have to keep the Speers then. It surprises me that no one else thought of pouring molten lead into jackets 130 years ago. Were the jacket to have corregations inside, it would grip the lead even better.