I am looking to purchase one of these ( the new model made a few years ago). Can anyone offer any comments. Good? Bad? Accurate? Reliable?

I have a 45/90 it will not shoot lead bullets worth a damn !I got some Hornady xtp's and it shoots the same hole I loader it with triple 7/3F .100 crush and I love this rifle I have 2 other 45/70 's and would never get another one as the 45/90 by far is the superior , power and comfort is outstanding , I have loaded several rounds to shoot IMR 3031 but have never had time to try it . Hornady 405/JHP contact me by e-Mail and I will send loading chart . I don't have what it takes to post pictures or files here , Forget the 45/70 ! go for the 45/90 and you will be glad you did

I been told the 45-90 offers less velocity than the 45-70 at the same grain weights. What velocities are you getting with it?

Snowwolf Do you reload ? if not get the 45/70 ! 350 gr bullets give 1960 FPS remember 1886 rifles from Moroku Japan are marked on the barrels Black Powder only or never exceed 40,000 CUP as Hornady's 3rd edition reloading Cartridges states .If your looking for super 45/70's velocity you won't get it from the 1886 Win. get a Ruger ! the Winchester's receiver will crack .

if both the 45-70 and the 45-90 are loaded to 40,000 cup (which is the recommended max for marlins and New Browning and Japchester 1886s) the 45-90 is going to beat out the 45-70. a 40,000 cup 45-70 load out of my extra light is no fun to shoot for a extend peroid . with black powder the 45-90 is again going to have the advantage . Concho do the New 1886s in 45-90 have the 1:32 in twist or do they have the 1:22 twist like the extra lights ? the 45-90 was designed for a light 300 grn lead boolit , they dont do very well with boolits heavier than 400grns .

I called winchester service ! the old original rifles were 1in32" twist, the Japan models are 1in20" mine will not group lead at all but jacketed bullets are great 300 gr Hornady's 2040 FPS

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
I am looking to purchase one of these ( the new model made a few years ago). Can anyone offer any comments. Good? Bad? Accurate? Reliable?

My friend bought one. Very pretty gun. But the design sucks. He had light primer strikes from the get go and repeated trips back to Winchester couldn't solve the problem. I personally believe it is inherent in the rebounding hammer design. The only primers he could use reliably are WLR. CCI's won't ignite about 50% of the time.

For the price, I think you would be much better off with a limited edition Marlin.

I have never had any problems as of this time I use fereral 215 mag primers and fereral for all my reloading of the numerous other calibers never a misfire ! your friends bolt and fireing pin is faulty some place inside the bolt ,spring ? possible chips ? not properly deburred for clearance ? Take the bolt out and press firing pin forward and see if it protudes out the pin hole .040 another problem could be to strong a spring holding fireing pin back ? hard to tell without having it to diagnose, another check , Head space could be loose ? bolt should close tight against barrel, if it does the chamber could be to deep . Have your friend contact me I'll try and help if he can't find the problem .

I had the same problem with my 1886 with the light hammer stikes . The problem is the rebounding hammer strut that holds the hammer back off of the firing pin .it robs the hammer of its striking power . Dave Scovill did a artical in "Rifle" a few years back on how to correct the problem . it is a simple fix if one had the tools and the know how. it would take about 20 minutes to fix . IIRC it involes taking the strut out and filing 1/8 in off of the bottom "finger" . this would allow the hammer to rest closer to the firing pin. do a little searth on this im not 100% that it was the bottom "finger" that had to be shortend

quote:

Originally posted by a_dalimata:
I had the same problem with my 1886 with the light hammer stikes . The problem is the rebounding hammer strut that holds the hammer back off of the firing pin .it robs the hammer of its striking power . Dave Scovill did a artical in "Rifle" a few years back on how to correct the problem . it is a simple fix if one had the tools and the know how. it would take about 20 minutes to fix . IIRC it involes taking the strut out and filing 1/8 in off of the bottom "finger" . this would allow the hammer to rest closer to the firing pin. do a little searth on this im not 100% that it was the bottom "finger" that had to be shortend

I have had this done to my el 1886 replica 50-110 conversion, as some said that when converted to 50-110 they where getting lite primer hits.

TRhanks for the 1886 info , I never worked on one of the new Japan models have an original I'm making new again 45/90 barrel from Green MT If you know where to find the info about repairing the Japan models I would appreciate it .

quote:

Originally posted by a_dalimata:
I had the same problem with my 1886 with the light hammer stikes . The problem is the rebounding hammer strut that holds the hammer back off of the firing pin .it robs the hammer of its striking power . Dave Scovill did a artical in "Rifle" a few years back on how to correct the problem . it is a simple fix if one had the tools and the know how. it would take about 20 minutes to fix . IIRC it involes taking the strut out and filing 1/8 in off of the bottom "finger" . this would allow the hammer to rest closer to the firing pin. do a little searth on this im not 100% that it was the bottom "finger" that had to be shortend

I don't know about the "20 minutes" part, as just getting the bolt out of the Winchester design requires Nuclear Rocket Science degree But the description of the fix sure fits my observation of the rebounding hammer design problem. Thank you for posting this. This is the very first time I've seen a fix suggested. Winchester doesn't do this fix for you, even though they must be aware of the problem. That is why I bad-mouth that rifle - for the price you should at least get useful reliability.

Its a really nice rifle. im not aware of anybody who prefers the rebouding hammer over the halfcock safty . what the real problem is , is a bounce of fricken chicken lawyers messing with John Brownings gun design . Winchester i believe is aware of the problem but the bean counters and lawyers wont let winchester do a recall to fix it .

when doing this modification all that has to be done .is remove the butt stock and then Mainspring and the hammer strut . the tricky part is taking the mainspring out without losing half the parts . then trying to put the mainsping back in under pressure . yah it proably would take more than 20 minutes to do this the first time around. i took the bolt out of a winny 71 once , they are suposed to be easier to remove than a 1886 ,HAH, i had to take it to a Smith to put back togather.

i dont remember what i did with the magazine article but im sure some of the guys over at leverguns.sixgunner.com would proably know way more than me

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
Snowwolf Do you reload ? if not get the 45/70 ! 350 gr bullets give 1960 FPS remember 1886 rifles from Moroku Japan are marked on the barrels Black Powder only or never exceed 40,000 CUP as Hornady's 3rd edition reloading Cartridges states .If your looking for super W5/70's velocity you won't get it from the 1886 Win. get a Ruger ! the Winchester's receiver will crack .

Yes I reload. What does Ruger offer in a take down lever action that I am not aware of?

There are a few outfits out there making t/d on the marlin 1895. Was there any particular reason you wanted the wincheseter over the marlin?

Snowwolf I was refering to the Ruger #1 That will shoot maximum loads , a bolt action can be made into a take down if your mind is set for one ? I have a Ruger #1 and it's cost is half of the winnie .[One shot one kill]

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
There are a few outfits out there making t/d on the marlin 1895. Was there any particular reason you wanted the wincheseter over the marlin?

Yep, I want to own a take down Winchester in 45-70!
Already own a Marlin Guide rifle.

Concho;Where did you get this info that browning 1886,s are marked blackpowder only?I have 2 of them and neither are marked like that.w/regards

Gophershooter Please go back up and read my statement , Rifles from Moruko Japan Winchester ,1886 are marked on Barrels black powder only ! but can use smokeless not exceeding 40,000 PSI 25,000 cup as lyman and Hornady states in their reloading manuals , I have no knowledge about Browning 1886 rifles ! if you can fill me in about Brownings please do .

Concho;Sorry about that,I did misread your post when I saw Mirkou Browning jumped in my head because they made the Brownings.Like I said I have two and the craftsmanship and materials are excellent.Mine are both carbines and I put a shotgun butt stock on one with akick ease pad and mercury recoil reducer.w/regards

I had been thinking about getting one of the Winchester 1886 models in 45-90... since I load for both the 45-70 and 45-90 in my single shot rifles, but seriously had to ask myself what the 45-90 can do that a 45-70 can't. And there simply isn't anything in a smokeless loading that it can do over a 45-70.

The 45-90 Winchester Express loadings in smokeless are only ment to go up to only a certain wt grain of bullet.


Click To Enlarge

The Winchester 1886 45-90's are nice looking rifles though

JB Thank you for the charts , do you have any for 50-110 ?

concho

Here at Accurate Arms Obsolete Cartridges they have data for the 50-110 which you will need ADOBE Reader to see it. Let me know if you need me to print off and re-copy to image for posting.

A buddy of mine has an old IMR manual that may have data for the 50-110 If I can get him to scan and send it, I'll post for ya.

Thank you JB Charts are great ! Have a Great Holiday ! Frank

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
Snowwolf Do you reload ? if not get the 45/70 ! 350 gr bullets give 1960 FPS remember 1886 rifles from Moroku Japan are marked on the barrels Black Powder only or never exceed 40,000 CUP as Hornady's 3rd edition reloading Cartridges states .If your looking for super 45/70's velocity you won't get it from the 1886 Win. get a Ruger ! the Winchester's receiver will crack .

Your comment about markings prompted me to check my .45-70 Winchester 1886 EL, which is clearly marked as being made by Miroku.
There are no markings or warnings of any kind on the gun regarding black powder or max. pressure. This gun was bought new in 2004.
Is this a recent developement?

I can't post pictures on this site ! reply using my E-Mail and I will send you a photo shot of the rifle with markings on Barrel saying Black Powder only ! 45/90 Take down Winchester Miroku Japan, The barrel does not say anything about not loading above 40,000 C.U.P, Lyman & Hornady reloading manual Warnings as to when they did this ? I got mine 2005 , Gunshow In York PA. Call Them and ask about pressures , 1-800-945-5237 Let me know what they tell you about your rifle http://www.winchester-guns.com also for tech /Questions

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
... 45/90 Take down Winchester Miroku Japan, ....

That's the difference. I didn't read posts back far enough to see that you were talking about the 45-90, not the 45-70.
The 45-90 is probably too old & not currently offered in factory loadings to have a SAAMI spec. for smokeless loading. It makes a lot of sense in that context, for the maker to warn against modern loads.

There is a lot of misinformation posted here on this topic.First of all the Winchester and Browning 1886 are not fragile and weak as a poster claims Doug Turnbull and others convert these to 50 Alaskan which scoots 435 grain bullet at 2000FPS.Ultra-Max and PMC offer smokeless powder loads for the 45-90.Turnbull has an interesting web site w/more info should any one care for more.w/regards

I agree Gopher , But I won't load mine past the recommended Pressures , I'm not risking my rifle being damaged or myself , others are welcome to do whatever they feel like as far as being safe , I saw a 1886 at the gunshow where I purchased mine , receiver was destroyed at breach , that said it all for me ! I asked what happened to the shooter ? I got a shrug of unknowing ?

Concho;I agree as well but just wanted to clear up some of what I thought were not true statements.The older 1886,s were not as strong as the newer one,s but I am not sure of the serial #,s.w/regards

I have an original from 1894 , I have a site to check serial # for the year it was made , I'm rebuilding it , new barrel and it is coming along slowly , I'm sending it out west to get a new case hardning done to the action and some parts , but I have to do all the polishing , another 25,000 PSI 40,000 CUP You can use smokeless as long as it is kept under these pressures I know you know that Gopher , some others may not ?

Ive seen one of the "new" 45-90s and it was marked "blackpowder only" i dont see if it had the winchester smokeless proof mark on it, like what is on my extra-light japchester, thats the oval with a "P" over the "W" . IIRC the blackpowder winchesters have a rectangle shaped proof mark . also i heard that blackpowder 1886s could handle the higher smokeless pressures if the barrel was changed to a high pressure steel. Modern 1886s are suposed to beable to handle the same pressures as modern marlin 1895s .

Dalimata look above, site & phone # for info about the 1886 winnies Call & ask questions yourself and you will get all the answers as to how much pressure they will withstand !

a_dalimata

What part of our wonderful state you hailing from, I live here in the Flathead. The 1886 Winnies are also noted for being able to shoot 45-70's as stated in there add.

I have shot both smokeless and black powder in BPCR only rifles ie Brownings 1895 BPCR, C.Sharps and my original 1876 #1 Remington Rolling Block Rifle in 45-90. I don't use the data about but do use Accurate Arms 5744 powder for loading smokeless load in the 45-90 cartridge.

To each his own, if you do not want to use smokeless in your 1886 Winchester 45-90 then don't, but as long as you do not exceed the SAMI specs your safe to do so.

The barrel stamp is only a legal disclaimer, and that is all.

JB im from up the canyon past west glacier.
i thought long and hard about rechambering my extra-light to 45-90 . in theory one could use 45-70 smokeless data in the 45-90. the pressures would be less than the 45-70. also the 45-90 has close to the same case capacity as the 450 alasken , so all things being the same , velocities should be close . but reality struck. the 45-70 will do everything i could want from a lever action . its afordable, comepared to the 45-90. my handloads are (i beleive ) not max class 2 loads , and plenty energetic as is . why would i want to beat myself up more than i already do ? its a good elk ,deer and bear combo that suites my purposes fine . its not a long range gun like my 300H&H but people forget that we have our fair share of hell-holes in montana . i wont state what i think of the 45-70 for DG ,cause im just going to get blasted for it . the 45-90 is nice , by IMO the 45-70 is more practical

Dalimata The 45 Alaskan is 2.100 long same as 45/70 The 45/90 is 2.400 same as 50-110 If you load with Hodgton triple 7 3/F the 45/90 will take your left foot off the ground with a 400 grain bullet .

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
... load with Hodgton triple 7 3/F the 45/90 will take your left foot off the ground with a 400 grain bullet .

Now that brings back some memories of a case full of 3Fg behind a 500gr. bullet in my old '86. If you were prepared to take a step back on firing, it was loads of fun. Couldn't load the magazine with more than a couple of rounds because the recoil would take it out of the gun.

a_dalimata,dla, PC! I also have problems with misfires in my modern 1886 Winchester Takedown 45-70. In fact, I fired twenty rounds through it today and had 30% misfires using WLR primers. It is the gun I'd like to take bear hunting next time I go, but before that this problem has to be fixed. Can anyone remember in which issue of "Rifle" that Dave Scoville's article was published - do you have a copy of it?
My 1886 is also the "lawyer proof" version made a few years ago. I once hade a Browning 1886, too bad I sold it. Both were made by Miroku of Japan

By the way, I just rejoined these forums.

Vasa

Vasa I will find out what vloume etc. it was in and let you know just give me a couple of days to did it up......................any smith who knows what there doing will be able to do it !!

PC I have the site for CH dies for the 50-110 but they don't answer e-mails , I know you have their dies , There are 2 sizes of 50-110 , Rim .665/ shoulder .565 , The Starline brass is .601 Rim /.544 shoulder, I wrote to CH for the correct info but no Reply , are yours compatable with Starline brass ? I also wrote to The rental outfit in origon for a reamer for 50-110 and no reply There ! The new 50=110 is 2.400 Long and the original is 2.500 Their add does not specify which they are using ? Please reply Thanks