One or two additional thoughts; a PH may not let you sneak around the jesse with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked. Most likely the best he will let you do is carry a magazine full. Too many of them have been shot by clients that way.
This means that in the short reaction time left from arrow impact to "oh shit!" you have to cycle the lever at worst or remember to cock the hammer at best while said buff is in 5th gear. And don't forget the blasted safety!
If the PH lets you chamber and carry a cocked back-up it will probably only be after your animal is sighted and partially stalked; then you have the action noise to contend with as you come into battery. Not good, either.
Unless you train to a military level of readiness and maintain that intensity for the duration you are more likely to fumble all that than not.
Just food for thought.

TJ - Thank you.

Wouldn't WW's Co-pilot in .50 Alaskian accomplish the same thing or at least be close? Also, I see I could but that ammo.

http://www.wildwestguns.com/

GeorgeS - Thank you...That was probably the most sound & practical advise on lever choice & cal. for my situtation.

BTW - Outstanding Buff!

tiggertate - Very good points! That was the kind of real world concerns that I needed to concider.

I'm already comfortable carring my .44 or .454 in a crossdraw while bowhunting.

Grizzly Cartridge Company



Caliber: 45-70 +P
Bullet Wt: 400 Grain Hawk BCFP
Velocity: 2000 fps




Mike also provide's Ballistic Optimizing Service .

This service includes:


Consultation - to inform me of your needs....


Inspection and cleaning of your firearm


Developing a maximum safe pressure load for your firearm


Your firearm sighted in with the custom-developed load, cleaned and returned to you.
Please contact me for further information

Phone: 1-503-556-3006
Fax: 1-503-556-8037
Email: info@grizzlycartridge.com

Mike sell's some of the best loaded ammo on the market.

Even if you were a swager all you have to do is send mike the bullet's and he will realod them
for you and box them up .Factory custom load's

-----------------------
As for being able to buy factory loaded round's in Africa . form Buffalo Bore Or Randy Garrett
or mike at grizzly.. man i just don't know about
that .
although a buddy of mine is heading over again this year . hes taking his Marlin 45/70
along with his 416 rem and 300 win mag.

Although the cheapest route to go is still buying a Browning BLR in 300 win mag or 7 MM rem mag and converting it to 50-110 or 458 win mag.. i was going to go 458 win mag but decided to go 50-110 instead .But you can convert a BLR 300 win mag or 7MM rem mag to 458 win mag
and i know you can find 458 win mag shell's every were in Africa.

Boss:
Yes, it will do the same thing. The difference is I used a Browning, they used a Marlin. Their price is also $400 to $500 higher than I paid.

TJ - Other than the price, is one better than the other, action, quality, craftsmanship or is it just a matter choice?

I don't think I would want to be is a position to stop a last minute Cape Buffalo charge with a 45-70 or any of the above...

I would want 45 caliber rifle shooting a 500 gr. bullet at a minimum of 2000 FPS....I think maybe a 50-110 comes pretty close to that anda 50-120 or 140 will make the grade..

Or a 40 caliber shooting a 400 gr. bullet at 2100 FPS

If a lever gun will do that then its a Cape Buffalo and Lion gun IMO.........

Ray with modern starline brass and modern made 1886 the 50-110 will push a 530 gr bullet to 2200 fps....................now thats serious medicine from a lever gun and why I had one made !! Just picked it up to day, check out the pics in the big bore forum.

PC..

Guy does Woodleigh make a 525 flat nose ..

That seems to be one of the better bullet weight's in 50-110....

Kev and Al ..both seem to think that it's one of the better one's anyway ..

I tried to get back ahold of Kev in Thorn Bay
Alaska were he had moved to but it seem's his gone ..Hunting

PC I have to agree that starline brass does seem to be the best brass around for the 50-110

PC you have to let us know how the load's your using work out and what thay are ...



Pottsy

Today i got my BLR back from the gunsmith
It came in 300 Win Mag and i had it redone into a 50-110 Winchester .. the shell's i got form the gunsmith were the one's he test fired
through it .. gezzz talk about light load's!!
I fired some of mine that i had loaded up in it
Night and Day .. thats about all i can say
about the diffrent's between the two
thank god for the decelerater recoil pad..

It only hold's 3 in the box and one in the chamber but i bought an extra clip ..

My buddy has the corno right now but i will be posting up how it does and the Vel/ i get out of her

Pottsy

P.S it only took 9 month's to get the rifle back from the smith's
Thay had to replace three part's with spring steal one's in the action..

I would not feel happy with any lever gun for backup on a close counter Cape Buffalo, preferring a good .470 double or bolt gun in a bigger bore...I suppose a BLR converted to a 458 or something that would shoot a 400 gr. 40 caliber bullet at 2200 or a 500 gr. 50 caliber bullet at 2100 would do fine, but only if it would do so at realistic pressures that don't cause extraction problems...

If there was such a lever gun then I would certainly have one..as I like a lever rifle. Most of what I have read here and elsewhere is BS by folks that have one and have a close mind and never hunt dangerous game anyway.

Ray do you make bullet's ? swaged or cast ?

Do you make and sell loaded ammo ?

I am not going to get into a pissing contest
with you ray . your just wrong those of us with new model 50-110's know better .

Mine is built on a BLR that started it's life as a factory 300 Winchester Mag <-- A 55.000 psi action....and now has a new life as a 50-110

DG ? humm Couger- Brown Bear. your right ray were all just a bunch of hick's .
you pomus ass.

Pottsy at the moment I am stuffing around with 440 gr bp .500 nitro woodleigh's with the lead tip filed down the now weigh between 407 and 412 gr, I will load some with between 72 & 76 gr of AR2208 and I hope for 200 fps or there abouts with this load and minumum pressure as it is very mild.I think AR2208 is just a tad slow.................I am not sure I have another Aussie mate with a 50-110 and he has a chrono and is using the same loads as me but his barrel is 26" mine is 22" so I will be interested to see what they chrono out at. I won't be shooting mine for a while.

PC,
Glad to hear that, and keep me posted on your results, I may want to give it a try on Buffalo based on your findings...I would tend to want a flat nose solid of at least 450 grs. going at least 2000 FPS, is that possible or a 500 gr. soft at the same.

Martin,
I seen no need in getting your shorts in a wad over something like individual opinnions and resorting to name calling, nobody called anyone a hick, but I hear a lot of advise given on these boards by folks that have never looked a charging buffalo in the eye and are recommending the wrong gun to stop him and that is a poor thing to do IMO...I also qualified my minimum, and agreed that perhaps the 50-110 could be made to work, but I would question the pressures...

I don't make bullets, but I was instrmental with helping Mike at Northfork on the flat nose solids, the cup points and have talked with him and field tested his bullets in Africa...I was also instramental in the development of the 350 gr. 375 Woodlieghs and the 450 gr. 416 Woodleighs and I also field tested them before they were on the market, so I have a bit of an idea what it takes to kill a buffalo...

Oh yeah, whats a pomus? you pompus ass....

quote:

Ray Atkinson

ROTFLMAO

You tellem King Ray ..

Martin,

can you show me some pics of your 50-110 on a BLR !! I would like to see them......................could that mean that the 50-110 would also work on the browning pump rifle ??

Can the BLR take more pressure than the repro 1886 ??

If I had of known this it may have been heaps easier to just do it on a blr browning than to import the 1886 to Australia !! also you could use pointy bullets if you wished.

Something that would be WAAAAAAAY cool is a BLR in 9.3X62 or 338 Win. No ammo problems there!

If you would feel comfortable with a .375H&H as a backup, then the 45-70 Levergun is OK. If you need more, then don't bother with the levergun.

The levergun isn't any faster for the first shot than a bolt gun. Subsequent shots can be faster with practice.

I can see a second 50-110 in my future

Would the Browning pump rifles also work ??

quote:

Would the Browning pump rifles also work ??

I will have to do some checking ..
But.! "If " you can get one in a 300 Winchester Mag i don't see why not.

I will do some phone calling and see what can be done

Well it look's like PC you might have to settle
for a 50 Alaskan in a BRP .
Start with the 30/06 .. although you might want to look at the Hawk's / line of Wild cat's



Hawk Wildcat's

You might also think about rebarreling it to a 9.3x64 B

My thoughts:

1) You are not going to be alone....there will be a PH there with a heavy rifle.

2) If you are only 20 meters away by the time you bend down and pick up that rifle you'll be history. You are going to have to move rather than stand sock still. When a buff turns toward the source of the pain he is going to swinging his head right toward you. That movement will show him where that pain came from. If you have a gun barer he is still going to have to move to give you the rifle or you may have to catch him to get in the first plaace...and those guys have been running all their lives...they are fast and not stupid.

3) Drawing and cocking a SA handgun with a ton of meaness bareing down on you leaves a lot of room for error. FA triggers are know for their "fineness"....you get it cocked and your finger on the trigger with two quarts of adrenaline dumped into your system it's going to like drawing on Bill Hickcock...and he's done it before. Pull the trigger too soon and you have a 350 grain miss....and Bill never misses at 20m and closing.

So what to do.....you have a S&W .44 Magnum with a 4" barrel.... Learn DA shooting from someone who knows how and then learn both flash sight picture and point shooting. The .44 with 320-350 grain Garrett Hardcasts will get the job done. NE450No2 who posts mostly over on the Africa forum killed 3 elephants last spring in Zim. He did penetration tests with the Garretts on the heads of the freshly killed elephants and then cut the heads open. The bullets penetrated more than far enough to kill an elephant. He goes back to Zim next spring and is planning to kill an elephant with the .44. He hasn't decided yet whether he is taking the 4" that he did the tests with or a 6".

If you think the .44 is too small there is also the new Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .454 or .480 Ruger or the S&W .500 4".

Get a good open top holster and practice until you can draw and hit a paint can being reeled toward you at high speed....

Anyway...good luck...you may need some...Bob

A friend just sent me this on bear defense from Garretts Home Page..

"Mr Garrett is preaching to the choir here. But worth reading if you have not seen it."

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/031000.asp

Bob

Thanks Martin !!

I must remain sensible as I have stock work to pay for for my .404J project along with my scout scope for my 50-110.......................and I can smell a cz 550 in .505 Gibbs, just because when was the last time you could purchase a factory rifle in .505 Gibbs, cz should be aplauded for there bold move !!

just because when was the last time you could purchase a factory rifle in .505 Gibbs, cz should be aplauded for there bold move !!
---------------------------------
You couldn't be more right about that!

Since the 505 Gibb's is so close to my 50-110
i was thinking about going 450 Rigby for my pick Of the new CZ line

------------
Did you every see how KEV mounted his scope on his 50-110

For those that asked..

Browning does NOT make the BRP anymore
Browning Pump Action Rifle

Martin I could go a .450 Rigby to $$ is the only thin holding me back

The gibbs with Horneber brass can easily out do the 50-110 and is not that far behind the .585 Nyati (I have a custom .585 Nyati built on a Brno 602 .375 H&H)

I do not think it would be any great deal to get 2500 fps from a 570 gr woodleigh.

The way Kev has his scout scope mounted is the way I will have mine mounted, the only difference being he has an integral picatinny rail with his barrel. My smith said that would cost me an extra $1000.00 to have an integral rail, so I had him build a aril from steel and drill and tap the barrel, it is held by 5 8x48 screws if I recall correctly. I will use warne qd's to hold the leupold scout scope which is 2 months away

Yes the 450 Rigby will out due the 50-110 for speed .


Ahh you own a seem's to me i know someone that is going to be making just that bullet's diameter here real shortly
Got a a special bullet weight and jacket wall thickness you like best

As for woodleigh. isn't that a aboriginal
Word for bad bullet company

Ya i talked to KEV about 2 or 3 days ago in Thorn Bay he's plaining on bear hunting here really soon like speaking of which i need to get off my duff and send him somemore 525's in .510.

The scope does look reall good on his ....when your done putting the scope on yours post up some picture's of it ..

I need to post up some picture's of my 50-110
some day soon

Pottsy my gun dealer told me scope will be 2 months..........................which is fine after just paying for the finished rifle