Well, 500 at 1900+ is way overkill.

I should have added initally, bullet diameter .377".

Ok, thought you were talking 45-70. As Rosanne Rosannadanna on SNL would say..."Oh, never mind" :-)

The best way to get away from those long shots is don't be looking way out there, something is usually closer!!

Scoping a 30-30 is incestuous!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Atkinson:
The best way to get away from those long shots is don't be looking way out there, something is usually closer!!

True enough!
I have to admit to having one .30-30 with a scope, it's a Marlin 336. Makes a fun coyote getter in the winter.

Cougarz,
Its OK to own a scoped Marlin in 30-30, its just not ok to confess to it.!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Cougarz,
Its OK to own a scoped Marlin in 30-30, its just not ok to confess to it.!!!

Why not? I own a scoped marlin 1895...

I'm not afraid or ashamed to say it, [point of fact I'm kinda proud to say my 1972 vintage 45-70 wears a Weaver (El Paso) K4 steel tubed scope on a Redfield/Leupold base.
I can also say I bought a somewhat ratty Winchester 30-30 and consider that second rifle free, because I bought it to get the K4 scope that was on it..

That Winchester cleaned up nicely and now wears a Williams "foolproof" sight...

The goofy side mount that mounted that scope on the Winchester went into my bin of scrap aluminum...

AD

Guess this means I have to take the pink scope covers off it now!

I just added a Win. 71 with an old Lyman receiver sight to my collection thanks to AR classified and a fine gentleman to do business with..Its shooting 2 inches at 75 yards with some old stuff I had on hand, and I got 5 boxes of WW new loaded ammo 200 gr. Silvertips, one box of old 250 gr. Silvertips and 100 new brass, had a carved Lion on the butt, ugly work so I found a nice used 71 stock at a great price from another fine gentleman, again on AR, so I'm fixed for life with a nice mod. 71, and enough ammo to last me as long as I'll last I hope...The elk better look out next month in Colorado as I have a cow permit where the elk are as plentiful as ticks on a stray dog...then on to Texas to get myself a couple of nice Whitetail bucks, again plentiful, and both ranches are large and no high fences. Think I'll use my 250 Savage on the deer. Making it a lever action, iron sighted, year. Well maybe I'll scope the 250...

The doc put me on a diet with only 6 oz. of beef a week, that sucks, but I can eat deer, antelope, elk and Bison, so bought a $200. 7 cu. ft. chest freezer, stuck it in the back of my pickup, will bone out all the meat, package it up, and when the freezers full, head for home and I should be good until next hunting season!! This is why I opted for a cow this year, had a choice of one bull or two cows, one this year and another next year..I've become a subsistence hunter and why not, shot my share of big bulls.

Nothing wrong with mounting a scope on a lever gun. Indeed, a Leupold 2.5x compact scope mounted extra low in Weaver rings looks like it was made just for the Marlin 336!

Biebs, Ray and you guys.

Is there some better way to identify the ones that might be the better shooters of the Winchester 30-30s. I had a half a dozen or so and while a couple shot ok with 170s they were the post 64 models so I kept going back to trying to find a good pre-64 shooter 30-30. I like that mechanical sounds they make - but I wanted them shoot better too.

I had some of the more collectible issue ones too and I sold those and then just sold them all and said I will start over in 30-30. One of them that had been a good shooter I noticed that the sight was broken as I was preparing them for the buyer- but I had already made the deal.

Are the 1950s made ones a better chance of getting a good one in the 20 inch barrels?

I generally look for the better or the highest condition ones.

Point me in the right direction here please.

I saw an accurate 7-30 Waters factory Winchester made 94 and while I was deciding on whether I wanted that it got away.

The longer barrel might be a plus too.

I would go for a 64 too - but I sure don't want to put out $1500 or $2000 for one that doesn't shoot well.

Thanks.

Biebs now you are going back to the hunting basics and in my opinion that is the most fun hunting you can engage in. I have several lever actions that I have had for many years , and I hunt with them every once in a while.

The first center fire rifle I bought for myself was a mod 94 Winchester 30-30 way back in about 1950 at Popular dry-goods in El Paso, Texas. It was brand new, and cost $78 dollars. I bought a box of Winchester super-X with 150 gr silver tip ammo for $4 and killed a fine Mule-deer buck that week on the Anderson Ranch in the Hueco (pronounced WECO: Spanish for HOLLOW) Mountains East of El Paso.

My favorite Mod 94 30-30 today is a 16 inch barreled trapper, actually made by Winchester, that I bought for following hounds on black bear and puma in New Mexico many years ago. Talk about a handy little rifle !
...................................................................Fun!

Mac, you...double rifles and thirty-thirties get you back to hunting up close and personal!!!

I am not stalking your threads Biebs . .

I just have the same interests going in the 22's and 30-30s at the same time.

I think I am going to look more at the 64s.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Mac, you...double rifles and thirty-thirties get you back to hunting up close and personal!!!

The up close and stalking through the bush with a 30-30 or a 500NE double rifle is all the same thing. I have always liked to see how close I could get to my target! IMO that IS hunting! Hell I even had a 30-30 double rifle with 18 inch barrels made on a Browning BSS action. I don't think I'd take on a cape buffalo with it though, that would be a little too close!

TexKD,
The only way to know a good shooter is shoot it. Unfortunate but true..I probably went thu a dozen or so 94 and half that many 64 before I found one to keep, an its been D&T'd all to hell on one side, no blue left but had a good borem, its an Eastern Carbine, about 1920-30 and it was cheap, and its a real keeper for me because it shoots, my other is a trapper mod. 1XX that belonged to my granddad in the Texas Rangers, and its incredibly accurate. I also have a very accurate 25-35 SRC that is a family gun and it shoots 1.5 to 2" for as many shots as you want to shoot in a group..

Bottom line buy and sell them until you come across a good one..I do believe the 25-35 and 38-55 tend to be more inherently accurate, but wouldn't bet my last dollar on it.

If one glass beds the forend tight, and runs a bead of glass around the wood to metal on the butt stock, most 94s and 64s will show a vast improvement, but few Win. lever hunters ever bother. My guess being that with the exception of a few, most Win. lever hunters are first time hunting Kids pr females making hubby happy or perhaps the once a year hunter, or subsistence hunters in the back country, and then a few of us old curmudgeons that just don't want to give up all the old ways and just love the old Winchesters, and know exactly what they will do when applied properly.

quote:

Originally posted by hogfarmer:
I started hunting deer with iron sighted 336s and 99s. Still have the rifles, just wish I still had the eyesight to hunt with them.

That's my issue I'm afraid. A small light scope with a low bottom end mag shouldn't upset the balnce too much

Apparantly I upset a couple of posters like Allen saying it was OK to shoot a scoped 30-30 but don't tell anyone about..Hey I was joking men, I apoligise.

I have had several scoped Marlins, nice guns and it gives you an edge I suppose if the old eyes are going...Its still a 200 yard gun give or take 50 yards. and under the right circumstances I have and will take a 300 yard shot with it..I sight mine in 3 inches high at a 100, then its on at 150 and 5 inches low at 200 and a foot low give or take a few inches at 300..you need to test fire at 300 however as this drop varies by load or even by rifle.

Mac,
Hueco is pronounced WACO as in Hueco Tanks out of El Paso on the Carlsbad NM highway.. The Anderson was next to Hueco Tanks as I recall but and it may have inclued the tanks best of my failing memory.. It used to belong to at least way was ranched by Ramon and Juan Escontreas, in the 50s and 60s. They were old friends of mine long passed and Juan was the last of the sure enough gunfighters. His family is still living in El Paso..I have hunted all that country including The Earnest Molley ranch across the road as a kid on up to a young man.. We owned the Threadgill on war road 11, on the North end of Mt. Franklin where the tin mines used to be, shot some monster deer on that ranch.

All that country is part of El Paso to day, seems unreal how El Paso has grown..

All my hunting rifles are scoped.

For us poor people who never have had great eye sight it is the only way to go.

Under perfect range conditions I have shot some very nice groups using peeps and open sights.

Trouble is while hunting the conditions are hardly ever perfect.

Pdog
Yea I feel the same way. I have a couple rifles with good irons but conditions never seem right to use them. I hunted with iron sights until my twenties and haven't missed them.

I like the 30-30 as much as anybody.
I have 2 or 3 lever gun versions and 2 bolt gun versions.
none of them wear scopes and they all shoot naked lead bullets.

the 30-30 is one of the few rifles where a naked lead bullet will shoot faster and flatter than jacketed factory ammo will, without any fuss or drama.

I went through a pretty good bunch of them including some of the fancy engraved versions [which were usually accurate but not reliable]
I'm down to a barely post war lever and an older worn down to metal and bare wood 20" version both of which are shooters.
the bolt guns are the savage 340 and an older stevens 325 [which I just got] and am starting to get shooting reliably. [I think the bolt spring is worn out]
I got the accuracy part of it worked out and a new rear sight installed it's just not 100% dependable yet.
since it come as part of a package deal with a 250-3000 Ackley imp. I'm out nothing but time on it so far.

Well I for one wasn't insulted at all. It was all just in fun.

I own and hunt with three .30-30s- two Savage 1899s and a Winchester M54 bolt gun. My hunting load is a soft 190 grain flat nosed cast bullet @ 1850fps, which pretty much duplicates the old .303 Savage factory load. After almost a half century of messing with dozens of cartridge/rifle combos I have come to the conclusion that it begins and ends with the .30-30 and similar cartridges (like the .303 Savage) here in the Eastern 'Deer woods".

Effect of said load on retirement aged Bambi:

I ususally hunt trophy Mule deer and Whitetail for the first week or two of the season,and I'll have a scoped 250-3000 Savage, or perhaps my Kimber .308 but towards the last of season if I havn't done any good I'll grab the 25-35 or the 30-30, both with irons, and shoot the first legal buck I run across, I enjoy that about as much as any hunting I do..and I love to take a .348 mod. 71 or even a .308 Savage 99 and hunt the thick stuff for elk, or if I'm hunting horseback I'll usually take a iron sighted rifle of some sort..It requires a whole nudder mind set, and opens up a nudder world of hunt'en. Give it a try, you might enjoy it, but be advised you might have to pass on a B&C trophy because he is out of range, so it your not willing to go there, better stay with your .270 and 3x9 scope!

Gnoahh, you are a man after my own heart running that 190-grain FN. Very capable.
I am about to take possession of a Marlin Model 1893 carbine with Lyman tang peep, and hope to work up a similar load.
I think it would be the nuts for deer and hogs, and frankly elk under 100 yards with proper placement.
Biebs, have you wrung out that beauty at the range yet?
Some years back, Winchester made a "Legacy" 94 in the same configuration, and it came with a Lyman tang peep. It was easily an under 1.5 at 100 rifle right out of the box. My preferred jacketed bullet for handloads is the Speer 170-grain FN, as it has a better ballistic coefficient than any of the others. Of course now we have the Hornady gummy tip, which makes the .30 WCF even flatter shooting.

Just picked up this 64, in my opinion the best of all the lever 30-30's. Monday is group therapy day at the range. I'm anxious to get it shooting. I have some Hornady 170 grain and some Hawk 190 grain loaded up to try and some Nosler 170 grain Partitions on the way.

Mart, I agree the 64 is something special, and it looks like you have a proper, period all-steel receiver sight on her.

Bill,

You're right on the receiver sight. It's an older Redfield. I really like the older receiver sights, both Lyman and Redfield.

Mart

By the way, guys, I have scanned an old article on cast hunting bullets for the .30-30 written by Frank Marshall for the Cast Bullet Association Journal many years ago. If you want a copy, PM me your e-mail and I will send the scans.

Mart,

Nice model 64. A few months back I picked up a 1940 m94 that's been rebarrelled with a model 64 forend, barrel, open sights and magazine. I didn't pay much otherwise I wouldn't have touched it. After doing a little research I learned this apparently wasn't an uncommon thing to do. People who had shot out M94s and couldn't afford a new M64 just purchased a new front end for their old rifle.

quote:

People who had shot out M94s and couldn't afford a new M64 just purchased a new front end for their old rifle.

Back in the day for most guns no matter what one you are talking about.

They were tools and not collector items. People did what ever to make them more useful for there needs.

I hardly have a rifle or handgun that hasn't been modified is some way.

If they are around years from now I am sure some collector well say it would be worth a lot more money it he hadn't ????.

Well the glass bedding different stock/grips sights ect, make a much easier used arm.

But then I buy firearms to use not collect.

Biebs
So I read this whole thread and I never heard how your model 94 shot. I saw one of those some years back mad really liked it. I bought the model 95 30/06 rifle instead. Also from another thread have you shot the 95 30/40 yet,
Or hunt with any of them. Just wondering.
Scott

Kidd, I've shot most of them, and am getting back into the hang of using buckhorns and other metallic sights....have to regain the sight picture I had in my youth!

I have Skinner sights on the 1895, with the small circle inside the hood at the front. Pretty cool, but a tad hard to make out in less-than-perfect light.

I haven't had the heart to shoot the 1894-1994 Centennial 30-30. I see NIB ones selling in the $1,350-$1,600 range. I'm not a collector, so I think I'll part with that one and get an old beater 94 or 64 in 30-30 to hunt with.

Jon, I think you are wise not to shoot the centennial rifle. There are so many used ones to choose from.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

People who had shot out M94s and couldn't afford a new M64 just purchased a new front end for their old rifle.

Back in the day for most guns no matter what one you are talking about.

They were tools and not collector items. People did what ever to make them more useful for there needs.

I hardly have a rifle or handgun that hasn't been modified is some way.

If they are around years from now I am sure some collector well say it would be worth a lot more money it he hadn't ????.

Well the glass bedding different stock/grips sights ect, make a much easier used arm.

But then I buy firearms to use not collect.

And the one I bought isn't a collectors item either. None of mine are. Plan is to shoot it.

The point I was trying to make is I think the model 64s were admired by many who already had 94s but couldn't swing the price of a new rifle so the easiest way was to simply have their old rifle made into a model 64.

Rifles have always been more that "just tools". The way that they have been embellished with carving, inlays, figured wood, engraving and ornamental checkering makes that pretty obvious. I don't see many hammers like that.

Brent, that would be something to see. "Best" quality claw hammer with bone-pack color case hardened head on an English walnut marble-cake handle finished with alkanet root and finely checkered ...

It would be pretty cool. But you never see, though I suppose there is one out there somewhere. Anyway, for all those that say guns are "just a tool", it's pretty clear to me that guns are, and always have been, much more than just another screwdriver. If they were just like hammers, this thread wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be reading it.

Hammers are an investment only, have no appeal to shooters...I know this to be a fact as my dad told me moons past that I'd be better off buying hammers at $2.00 each and selling them for $1.00 each and that would beat the hell out of the cow business, and I'd last longer before going broke! 60 years later, being a slow learner I found out that he was right!

The best shot I ever made was at a running buck and I do mean running was with a model 94 Winchester 30-30 with open sights, he was being pushed by some hunters in the area and I was lucky to drop him with one shot. The rifle was given to me as a Christmas present in 1967, I still have it

The best shot I ever made was with a 30-30 on a small Mule Deer. I was 14 and my brother was 21, we were sitting on rock glassing. I saw this buck at at least 800 yards, I held the whole barrel in my rear sight and put the bead between his horns, off hand of course, and pulled the trigger, he dropped, shot between the eyes..I sure had a lot more skill at age 14 as you can see, also was short on common since..as our prez-dent would say, "Those guys with their guns and bibles". I fit that bill then and now. I also learned that kind of shooting had disaterous results as a rule so modified my range to 300 yards with an ocassional 400 yard shot under ideal conditions.