what is the best factory 30-30 load for balck bear?

Unless your black bear are a lot meeker than the black bear around here, There ain't one in my view. Pick a little more gun.

I've shot quite a few black bears all with rifles, but only 2 with a 30-30. IMHO they didn't seem to be any tougher than deer I've shot with those same rifles. The only difference is that I'd rather not follow bears into the brush, so I'm much more careful with shot placement and range. No matter what I'm shooting, I try to stalk to archery range and shoot into the vitals. One bear I took with a 30-30 was a factory 170 Win. silvertip and the other a handloaded 170 gr. Speer (?). If I remember right both were through and through. I'd have no qualms shooting bears from a stand, but that isn't my style.

I would use the federal factory load with the nosler partition for bear with the 30-30. In all honesty, I would use more gun too. But I have a nice 50 alaskan lever gun in the gunsafe.

I'd use 170 Nosler Partitions if I didn't have a 45/70...

I recently got an O/U Heym in 30-30.

Before my Nephew uses it on black bear, over bait, I plan to shoot some pigs with it, testing loads.

I think any 170gr factory load would work, but the Federal 170 Nosler Partition would be my first pick.

We will see if the tests prove this to be true.

NE 45 #2
Not too hijack the thread but tell me more about your Heym I'm interested in something along those lines

How strong is your particular rifle? Just interested because factory 30-30 loads would be fairly mild (being for lever guns) but I was wondering what the 'modern' potential of the 30-30 would be for a hand loader? I am thinking the 30-30 would be a very efficient cartridge. (I am currently loading my 303 Brit to below 30-30 velocity with 180gr bullets). A bit off topic, I know ...

Mike

See my post in the Double rifle forum. I shot the Heym at the range today, wil be posting about it later.

303Guy

The heym 26 B is avialable in such calibres as the 7x57R, 7x65R, 8x57R and the 9,3x74R, all which have higher pressure than the 30-30.

However I for one do not press the issue with a double rifle. Even if I could gain 200 fps with 170gr bullets over factory velocities, how much deader would it kill deer and pigs, or black bear for that matter.

Plus regulation might be adversly effected as well.

Plus one of the things I like about this little double is that it is a pleasure to shoot, ie VERY low recoil.

Unless your Black bear are all 400+ lbs the 30-30 with 170 gr Rem Corlok's will be dead real quick! They aren't armor plated- put the bullets in the vitals and you'll have a very dead bear! Keep the shots under 125 yards! I just love these big Magnum guys!! The old 30-30 has killed many bear including Griz!

Lots of black bear in West Virginia and the Win. Mod. 94 or Marlin in 30-30 has been taking them on a regular basis for the past 100 years or so. Remington Core Lokt seems to work fine.

Well I do have a report back on hunting with the Heym 30/30.

I shot a few deer and ppigs with it and it works fine. All the animals ran a little bit, the longest maybe 75/80 yards, but they left a good blood trail.
Shot 3 coyotes, and a turkey with it too.

Ammo used was Federal 170 RN and Hornady 160 LeverEvolution.

30-30 has been killing bears for 100 years. It's killed several on our place. It will kill bears for you too. Have shot those Hornady 160's and been pretty impressed but only on hogs and a bobcat at this point. With a few exceptions, black bears have been pretty easy to kill in my experience.

I have not hunted bears, but have many relatives who have. One of my uncles (used to be a Federal trapper..hunted predators, including bears, for a living 40hrs+ a week) told me one time that a 30-30 "really shakes em'" when I asked if a 30-30 was a good bear over dogs gun. His shots on bears, lion, pigs, ect were always close ones since he had a pack of dogs usually.

Federal Premium 170gn Nosler Partition.

What Jerry just said....

Mad Dog

For shooting over bait or hounds any 170 grain load should be fine. For spot and stalk hunting or in a drive I'd want more gun though.

get a bigger gun. a 30/30 will kill a bear for sure with proper shot placement but that may not always happen in a fast breaking hunting situation. bears have heavy dense bone and tissue, you need a 308 - 30/06 as a min for black bear to be humane and to insure quick kills. A 30/30 is a fine 100 yard deer/brush gun. It has put more meat on the table than any other caliber but it does have its limits and it is just not powerful enough for black bear.

quote:

Originally posted by eaglesnester:
get a bigger gun. a 30/30 will kill a bear for sure with proper shot placement but that may not always happen in a fast breaking hunting situation. bears have heavy dense bone and tissue, you need a 308 - 30/06 as a min for black bear to be humane and to insure quick kills. A 30/30 is a fine 100 yard deer/brush gun. It has put more meat on the table than any other caliber but it does have its limits and it is just not powerful enough for black bear.

But exactly how many guys are spotting and stalking black bears? Probably 90% of all black bears killed in the lower 48 are taken either off a bait pile or treed by hounds. Neither is a "fast breaking situation" and a quick, snap shot isn't required.

A 170 grain CoreLokt bullet put through the vitals will put a black bear down in a hurry.

I can understand why Winchester stopped making the model 94. It seems there is a modern trend to use bigger and bigger cartridges on animals that haven't changed in size for a thousand years and all of a sudden a 30-30 lever gun is obsolete.

Winchester has a nice interactive web page that lets you pick your game animal, then your type of firearm (rifle, pistol, shotgun), and then your cartridge. The result is their recommended load(s). I did it for black bear with the 30-30 and it recommended their 150 gr Power Max Bonded load. You can find their tool here: http://www.winchester.com/choo...o/Pages/hunters.aspx

Federal has a similar page: http://www.federalpremium.com/...ndation/default.aspx
In 30-30 they recommend two loads for black bear out to 100 yards: their 150gr Barnes Triple Shock load and their 170gr Nosler Partition load.

While I was at it, I looked and looked and couldn't find any information on a North American black bear subspecies described as "meeker".

After reading all the "not big enough" comments I had to look just to make sure that my 300H&H was still "enough gun" to hunt in North America. Federal lists three .300 H&H loads that they recommend for every North American big game animal all the way up to Brown Bear. Whew! For a minute I thought I might have to replace my .300 H&H with a .416 Ruger because it had become obsolete.

Grenadier,
Very good info. People have lots of different opinions I guess. Some tout a .223 as the cats meow for a 200 lb whitetail but dis a .30/30 for a 150 lb bear. For 35 years I have read that the .30/30 is fine for black bear at woods ranges and with the advances in bullets it would seem to be an even better choice.

another note too--- the original poster is from Pa. If you have bear hunted Pa. for 25 years like I have --- you know that bears there range from a 150 pounder just split from ma to some hoggs that are over 500 pounds. Pa. does not allow baiting or dogs--- so you drive them or try to jump them in the thick rose bushes or brush on the side of a mountain. You may be happy jumping a 500 pound blackie boar at 10 feet with a 30-30 in your hands--- but I want more 'bang' if it happens to me!

I have found Thunderheads work just fine!

Stick some 170gr slugs in there and go hunt.

A .30-30 with 170 gr. slugs works just fine for someone that can hunt them anytime during the season and that can take close shots. I can hunt them 15 minutes from my house and hunt tight dense woods, where the 94 works best. However that said, if I was traveling long distances, hiring a guide, and had just a few days to hunt, and could not wait to take one in close, I would definately use something that would reach out and touch one hard. Maybe my .300.
But us hillbilly, backwoods hunters that get to hunt every day, really like light, handy, fast handling rifles in the deep woods, and quite often use the .30-30. Use heavy bullets, hit them right, and it will kill um graveyard dead.

Any 170 grain bullet should work great. The low velocity of the 30/30 makes it perform wonderfully with basic cup and core bullets and the ammo makers have had 100 years to perfect their 30/30 loads for deer/black bear sized animals.

Seriously, has anyone ever had a "bullet failure" shooting a 30/30?

Pete

I grew up in a lumber camp community 25 miles from the nearest town. You couldn't walk into a house without seeing a 30-30 or .32 Special sitting in the corner or hanging on the wall.

Most of the folks were hard working Loggers and Mill Workers, and didn't make a lot of money. They had to feed their families, and game was a large part of the food supply. Letting it get away wasn't really an option. I never heard anyone say, "I need a bigger gun."

They were like having an axe, hammer, saw, etc. They were used for Deer, Elk, Cougar and Bear without any thought as to whether they were big enough to do the job. They always worked for the purpose, so long as you did your part.

My Grandad owned and ran the General Store and Service Station. He always kept a good supply of 30-30 and .32 Special ammo in stock.

Heh DB, come to think of it. . . . . . . . . .what say we go git a Bar with our .30-30s. . . . . . starts Aug 1st!

largest bear I ever personally saw harvested was a PA monster just shy of the 700lb mark taken with a single shot from a 94 .30-30 spitting out the 150 gr Remington core lokt load.

quote:

Originally posted by WVhunter:
largest bear I ever personally saw harvested was a PA monster just shy of the 700lb mark taken with a single shot from a 94 .30-30 spitting out the 150 gr Remington core lokt load.

The dude got lucky.

No doubt, a .30-30 can do the job on a large animal.......... IF and only if the conditions are absolutely optimal. Like a previous poster pointed out, PA does not allow for the use of bait or dogs. So, cahnces are extremely great you will be shooting at a moving bear at a poor angle. There is no waiting for a standing, broadside shot like on TV. That 700-ish pound bear, the 3rd week of November, will have up to 8 inches of fat in areas of his body, before you ever get to penetrate cavity. The .30-30 is not high on the list for that chore. And, quite frankly, I'd rather not hunt (in PA) in a group with someone who's carrying one. I'd rather spend my day killing bears rather than looking for blood.

Another thing to factor in in this area is that if you do not crush the bear down where he is, someone else will be tagging your bear. Ours is only a 3-day season and the woods crawl with guys for those days.

Strut
Truly well said. I've only got one bear myself but I've contributed to two others. Could have led to some serious disagreements over ownership when two or more people have lead in the bear. Bigger guns makes sense under the circumstances. I use a 338 now and don't feel overgunned for PA bears.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
I use a 338 now and don't feel overgunned for PA bears.

Yup.

Every year there are a good handful of PA blackies taken that make mountain grizzlies look like teddy bears. When the possibility of running into a 600 or 700 or 800 pounder is very real, you'd better bring enough gun.

Yup, them thar black bares is now armor plated. Better get a elefant gun....

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:
Yup, them thar black bares is now armor plated. Better get a elefant gun....

Not speaking of the Tennessee variety of bear puppies. A .30-30 may serve you well for that sort of light work.

A feller and his .30-30 could (and I emphasize "could") end up bear shite in this neck of the woods.

I trust Shof has not had the experience of rooting around in mountain laurel looking for a wounded 500lb bear.

About 50 years ago, my uncle was hunting black bear in Pennsylvania and encountered a bear at about 60 yards. He was using a model 94 but not sure what loads, what ever commercial loads available 50 years ago. He shot this bear 5 times in a vital chest area before he went down for good. He was downwind of the bear and it kept moving in a circle trying to catch his scent. Next season, my uncle traded for a .30/06.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
I trust Shof has not had the experience of rooting around in mountain laurel looking for a wounded 500lb bear.

Yes, actually I have had the pleasure of doing that. Crawling on my hands and knees, with a .44 magnum revolver in one hand through bear tunnels.

I've hunted black bears in Wisconsin, Ontario, Manitoba, and Idaho. And I've killed bears in Ontario, Manitoba and Idaho. I've also helped follow up wounded bears in Idaho, Ontario and Wisconsin.

I have recently transplanted to Tennessee, so I can't comment on the size of the bears in Tennessee.

I've lived and hunted in bear country for a good portion of my 53 years. I've taken bear over bait,and I've walked/stalked them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hit them reasonably well and they die pretty easy.

I don't care what you hit them with poorly, you then have a ton of problems. Bigger doesn't always mean deader....

Hey all,

I live in " CA " & have to consider a " Lead Free " bullet.

http://www.dakotaammo.net/DPXr...30150-20/400/Product

PAPI

I guess black bears east of the Miss. are alot tougher than those west. Going off what I'm hearing here. I'll bring my 416 Rigby or 500NE. I don't want to end up like thousands of hunters from the great north west that are killed and eaten each year by these ferocious beasts.

If your three day season comes down to a 200 yard shot at a moving wounded bear you won't want the 30/30. In fact I can't remember anyone in our party getting a standing shot at a bear. Sure 30/30s kill bear, but in the special circumstances of PA I can't see it.