It looks like Indiana will open up deer season for rifles this year. It will be for pistol cartridges only (357,41,44 etc). I ordered a marlin 44mag lever rifle that should be here next week. I was hoping to work up a 200 yard load for this gun with a mil dot scope. Any one tried this? What was your load, and results.I have never messed with pistol cartridges much but this has opened up a new door as I do not like using a shotgun so I have been using my 243 striker the last few years.

I'm looking at the same thing. I hope there is some good post on this.

SLS
Did the rifle thing pass? I left Indiana to come home the same day of the public comment and this is the first I've heard.

This is good news for this Alaska boy who spent his whole life hunting only with rifles but now spends deer season in Indiana.

I think your on the right track with the .44 and a mil-dot scope. That thought went through my head as well. I also thought of a .357 Herrett in a custom single shot like the E.A. Brown mod 97. The 357 herrett is like .010 to long by what I know of the new law but I wonder if I just trim the cases back that little bit if I would then be in compliance. This would make a great combo set for the .357 Herrett contender that I'm already using during firams season. The .357 bane davis would be forsure leagle and might make a good choice also.

I wonder what the case lingth is for the wssm cartridges. I can see new wildcats on the horizen

I saw a post a a BB somewhere that had a guy that had a 45-70 for that hunt. He shortened his cases to the required length to comply with the rule. It was a little longer than a 45 colt. He called it the 45 hoosier daddy.
I never heard how it shot, but the load was legal length, and he didn't have to buy a new gun. Ron

I haven't heard officially if it has passed but Gander Mountain has recieved several new lever action rifles in lately in pistol calibers. Trimming the case might work if the rules aren't caliber specific and the CO had a set of calpiers with him. As for wildcats The way I understood it the cartridge had to be designed for a pistol.

Luckily not my problem, and I can't find any specific information on permitted cartridges, but I'd consider the .357 Maximum, probably with 180s if it is legal. The problem is not whether a pistol cartridge will kill a deer at 200 yards, they obviously will, but whether the hunter can consistently make lethal shots at extended ranges. Range estimation is critical due to the rainbow trajectory factor. I'd strongly recommend a range finder and a come up chart if I planned on taking longer shots.

For quite a number of years I've hunted deer successfully with a Marlin 44M rebarrelled with a heavy 16 1/2" barrel. Straight diameter from receiver to muzzle specifically to add weight. Using Speer's top published load for the the 240 grain jacketed soft point and WW296 it will touch shots at 100 yards off the bench. I hunt the woods though and rarely get a shot that long but the potential is clearly there. I think a mil-dot scope would be perfect for you along with lots of range work to get ready for 200 yard shots.

I have had a marlin 1894S in 44mag that I have been playing with. I have tried a few handloads and factory ammo through it but have yet to find a combo that I would consider hunting with yet. Accuracy is very iffy so far but to be honest I have done very little serious shooting with it .

I was thinking the 200 grain bullets might be the way to go. But will have to wait till the gun comes in as they are back ordered right now. I imagine they will be hard to find by hunting season since a lot of people in Indiana will be wanting one.

coult you post the requirments?

.35 cal min, 1.625 max case length
don't remember min case length off hand

200yds is definately pushing the limits of the 44mag, even in a rifle. I have a Win 94 trails end and a Ruger 99/44 deerfield that i have killed a couple of deer and a black russian hog with.

No doubt the little 44 will put em down real quick, i would say around 125yds is its limit in thick woods. If you were hunting open fields i dont see why you couldnt try for a 200yd shot but the trajectory does get loopy after 150yds. I guess that if you practiced a lot it would be possible but i would go with a scope with more power for long range shooting with the 44. I tried a red dot on the 94, great for moving animals at close range, but with only 1X power it would be real hard to place a precise shot at 200yds with a 44mag.

A Puma (or an Encore custom rifle barrel) in 454 might shoot flatter, but since you have a 44 magnum Marlin on order I'd zero a 240 gr soft or hollownose two inches high at 100, then practice, practice, practice... Depending on trajectories, reticle dimensions, and power settings it's sometimes possible to use the transition from the skinny to wide portion of a duplex reticle as an alternative aiming point.

I have a Ruger Model 77/.44 Magnum Bolt Action, which I look forward to using here in Indiana, this upcomming season. Todate I've taken two Deer with it in Kentucky at ranges of around 75 yards. Both one shot kills using my handloads of: 23.5 grs of H-110 and a 240 grain Hornady XTP hollow point bullet. Velocity, in my rifle equales factory ballistics, velocity wise, and is more accurate. I would imagine that this and other cartridges, in the same power range, are useful under 125 yards with careful shooting and bullet placement.

SLS
The first thing to look at is the twist of the barrel in hyour 44 Mag.

I have had a few 44 mag rifles and killed a lot of deer with them.
My lontest shot was @125 yards.

Most 44 rifles have a 1 in 38 twist. Accuracy seems to suffer past 75 yards.

44 handguns usually have around a 1 in 18 or 20 twist.

NE450 NO2
I think you are right on the twist. I picked up an H&R while waiting on my Marlin. At 50 yards it will almost one hole them. Same load at 100 yards I am lucky to get them in a 4 inch circle. I have a Leopold with the multi dot reticle and a range finder for bullet drop but may not get it to shoot a group. My gun should be here tomorrow. If it will not shoot good groups maybe I can get the first shot out of the cold barrel to strike the bullseye. Using a rifle in a pistol cartridge is still far better that using a shotgun and I missed a running coyote with my striker pistol last deer season which has bothered me ever since. Would have been an easy shot with a 44mag.

SLS Your results are typical to what I have found in the 3 44 Mag rifles I have owned.

Try some factory Speer 270 ammo and see how they shoot in your rifle. If they shoot better then try some 300 gr loads.

If they shoot worse at 100 then go the other way and try some factory 200gr.

Then if youi reload you know what weight shoots best in your rifle 200, 240, or 270, or 300.

I have some 240s ordered now. Was using 200XTP. I am thinking that if the twist is too slow I will need a lighter bullet, but I still want to try the 240s.

How about an Encore with a S&W 460 barrel? It should be a 225 yard gun!

LJS
What is the twist of the bbl?

I don't believe that any pistol cartridge in a rifle will make it a 200 yard gun.

Look at your drop tables. You'll be shooting a rainbow at 200.

I suspect the rifles chambered for the pistol cartridges will do well out to 100 yards and after that you will have to know the exact distance because drop will come fast and furious.

N.E. 450 #2
I don't know the twist but Bulberry is offering the 460 and 500 S&W barrels. If I lived in Indiana, I would consider that option. I have a friend that has a long barrel custom shop S&W 460 and believe me it is not a rainbow trajectory at 200 yards.

I suppose I should not have made such a broad generalization.

I would be interested in the velocity, bullet wt and drop tables for the 460 and 500 S&W.

Do they fit into Indiana's legal cartridge limit? Isn't one of them too long?

I will still re iterate the rainbow trajectory on the 44 magnum. It's best to know exact distance and exact drop in your weapon if shooting at 200 yards. Which is not for the inexperienced, IMO.

Well you can compare the 460 S&W handgun to a .44 Mag rifle and find that you do indeed have a rainbow trajectory. I once owned a 22 inch barrelled 788 Remington in .44 magnum. Using a 100 yard zero the drop was about 18 inches at 200 yards. Using a 200 yard sero would have required it to be 9" high at 100 yards.
Or +4 inches high at 100 yards with -10 inches at 200 if a 150 yard zero is used.

It was fun to plink with at long range meaning 200 yards at rocks on the side of the hill. I would not consider it reasonable to use on deer at 200 yards no matter how many Contender fans do.

However my brother and I shot several deer with that .44 before I sold it. It would be a vast improvement over any shotgun

Yes, definitely an improvement in accuracty compared to a shotgun.

I'd have NO qualms about shooting at 100 yards.

Actually to get off topic. I'd use my 357 mag rifle out to 100 yards with no worries. After that it starts to get dicey...

Federals info on the 460 is based on a pistol with an 8" barrel. Muzzle velocity is 1800FPS with a 275 grain bullet. If zeroed at 25 yards drop is 2 inches at 100 yards. Unfortunately they do not show data for increased velocity of a longer barrel or longer range trajectory. I would still bet that at 200 yards you could hold backbone on a deer and hammer them.

The bad part is that the 460 is not legal. The case is too long.

Did anyone ever manage to get an "Exit" with a Jacketed bullet in their 44Mag Revolver or Rifle? If so, where did you hit the Deer and what Bullet did you use?
-----

Hey SLS, I've never managed to get an Exit with 240gr XTPs. They ALWAYS Killed well and expanded to about double their size, but I do like Exits.

Due to that, I tried various 240gr SPs and still had no Exits. Ended up trading the 44Mags off before I could purchase some 240gr Lead Gas Checked bullets from "Beanies Reloading Supply". He casts them from Linotype, in a Keith profile, so I'd really expect them to Kill well, not Lead the Bore and make an Exit. But that is speculation, because I've not used one on a Deer.

If you are interested in them, he can be reached at (704)485-3333. For those of you in the Carolinas, he always set-up at the Charlotte Gun Shows that were held at the Metrolina Fair Grounds in Building 2. He was all the way in the back right corner.

Actually I like the quick expanding bullets. The deer don't seem to go very far. I did this with my 458 win mag. Two deer at 125 yards. Both deer had a broken shoulder. Bullets were found just under skin on far side. Was using 300gr corelocks. Both deer tried to run but only made it about 5 feet. Not much experience with 44mag yet. I did try the 300gr XTPs and they shoot realy well (2 1/2" @100
yards) but drop will be a big issue with them.

quote:

Originally posted by SLS:
Actually I like the quick expanding bullets. .... Bullets were found just under skin on far side. ...

Hey SLS, Then the guys that mentioned the 240gr XTP are giving you the perfect recommendation. It is indeed an excellent bullet design for the 44Mag, revolver or rifle. And it will do just what you want.

Best of luck to you on the Hunt.

I shot my Winchester Trapper 44 Mag yesterday at 25 and 50 yards with factory Speer 270gr and Federal 300 Cast Core.

I have always beed happy how the Speer 270 shoots, but the Cast Core shot a little better at 50 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by SLS:
The bad part is that the 460 is not legal. The case is too long.

As I read the regs the 500 S&W is legal, so is the 445 Supermag. Either might be fun to play with in a long barreled Encore...

Got my Marlin and been shootin a few times now. Tried Hornady 200, 240, and 300 xtps along with Remington Corelok 240s. Also tried the Hornady 265s. I have always been a fan of high velocity and quick expanding bullets for a on the spot kill but the 300gr XPT will out shoot everything I have tried. I will occasionally get a good group with the others but the 300 will shoot consistant 2-3" groups at 100 yards.

indiana new cartridge speck are min 1.16'' max 1.625 35 cal. or larger nothing said about bottleneck case as long aas the cas is in speck... ''any wildcats are welcomed...need help here in the hoosier state.''

quote:

Originally posted by SLS:
300gr XPT will out shoot everything I have tried. I will occasionally get a good group with the others but the 300 will shoot consistant 2-3" groups at 100 yards.

Sounds like you're off to a strong start. Let us know how it goes as you stretch the range.

Talked with a local Gun Shop Owner this past week about a 357Mag rifle. He looked down and chuckled a bit, then said, "Everything is in Indiana right now! Since the new Law went into effect, all the Wholesellers are sending everything they get to Indiana and it is selling as quickly as they get it."

Sounds like a whole lot of folks plan to get in on the new Hunting opportunity.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills to all the Hoosiers!

Had a couple of guys try (did not check with me first) some of my 200 XTP PISTOL loads in their 94's. They said wow those kick the $h!t out of us. I told them that near max pistol loads are usually way too hot for rifles. I loaded them up some 180 HP's with 296 (IIRC) and they raved about how flat and accurately they shot. I never did see a target or shoot them myself however.

as very good wildcat , I will go with the 357 Baines & Davis ( 357/44 mag ) you get close to more than 357 maximum and stay in your max lenght case law

respice is a Marlin in 357 mag with a bolt in 44 mag and mag tube and a reamer

with good 180 grain bullet that a true hammer

both relloading are available from RCBS or Redding and case is easy to home made produce

as lever action Ruger make good one and rotary mag in 44 mag will feed 357/44 with no problem

510-510

SLS

If you handload i would look at either of the Barnes X bullets, 200gr and 225gr. With the 200 you should be able to get close to 2,000fps in a 20" barrel this will flatten the drop, although it will run out of steam pretty quick.

Most newer 44 mag rifles have a 1-20" twist, including the 99/44 deerfield, although my 94 trails end has the slower 1-38" as it was intended for cowboy action shoots.

Old Guy

Im confused??? How can a hot loaded pistol round not be effective in a rifle? Marlins were loaded for 356 and 375 win, so pressure is not an issue. Every re-loading manual i have says not to down load a 44mag that it operates better at full pressure loads. If a pistol can take the recoil , why wouldnt a 6-1/2 to 7lb rifle not absorb it better?

A revolver loses a substantial portion of its pressure through the gap between the cylinder and barrel/forcing cone. Sierra lists the following 210 grain bullet max loads using IMR 4227.

Pistol: 26.5 grs @ 1400 Fps

Rifle: 25.7 grs @ 1700 Fps

As you can surmise the rifle produces more pressure with less powder! BECAUSE everything is sealed until the bullet leaves the barrel.