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For those that have levers in pistol calibers 357 mag, 44 mag, 45 colt etc do the wide meplat flat nosed hard cast pistol bullets feed reliably? Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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They can be if you use the "right" smithy!! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My Marlin ‘94FG (41 Mag) would not feed SWC cast bullets of any sort that I tried. Finally found an old flat round nose mould Lyman 41028 that it fed. It’s not my idea of a good hunting bullet though. Took a hint from someone on cast boolet forum and used a ball stone to chamfer the chamber edges slightly. Now it feeds my flat nose SWC bullets. | |||
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My pre Remington 1895 eats Garrett wide nosed/ flat nosed bullets. The meplat on those is almost full caliber Post REM Outdoors and Ruger I cannot say. | |||
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Joshua, Is that a 405 Win or a 30-06? Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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My experience is that finished overall length is a factor in getting blunt bullets to feed. Sometimes you can make them a bit shorter overall length and they will work. Otherwise, you are going to have to have someone work on the feeding. | |||
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The factory bullet for the .44-40 is a flat nose. They presumably work flawlessly through all the Winchesters. I only have experience with the '92 action (one a Winchester and two Rossis, and they have no problem. What I did have some issues with in my .44-40 Rossi was 240gr Keith-type SWC's (for .44 Magnum). The semi-wadcutter edge hangs up on the chamber, but the bullet is also a little bit long. I have managed to get pure wadcutters to feed but then they are very finnicky about loaded length. And the disadvantage of .44-40 is that the case necks are so thin, if you don't have a cannelure at the right place to crimp into, the bullet will be shoved back into the case in the magazine (from recoil or even just from walking around with the rifle sometimes). A friend had a .357 Rossi which fed the same style of bullet (158gr) without any issues. In fact that rifle fed everything we ever tried in it, even THV's (although we weren't brave enough to stack those in the magazine) and something called a "cookie cutter". For those who have not seen them, this was effectively a little brass tube, open at both ends, with a plastic disc loaded between it and the powder. | |||
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The Model 71 in 348 WCF was designed for them, all bullet weights. The smokeless 1886 later rifles are even more forgiving because the bullet length Browning/Winchester design in the carrier allows for different length cartridges-all FP types. These same rifles will also allow the use of a chamber-only 1st round -210 gr Nosler partition 338 diameter bullet in the 33 WCF rifles/ Very handy for elk, moose, or bear. That said, the flat point bullets have built in extra stopping power. Avatar | |||
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I have a pair of B-92’s in 44 and 357. They will feed WFN pills but generally won’t feed SWC bullets well (some SWC designs will but most won’t). OAL length is another important consideration as leverguns are more restricted compared to revolvers. The best cast bullet designs for leverguns in pistol cals are RNFP or TC designs. | |||
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The Winchester 1873 and 1866 design would be your best bet in pistol caliber feeding because the round comes out of the tube onto a lifter which lifts the round and is pushed straight into the chamber. These are chambered for .357, 45 colt, 44 special and I think the new ones in 44 magnum. I would not hot rod these as the link design is not near as strong as a 92 design. | |||
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The above 1895 that eats Garrett 45/70 ammo is a JM Marlin 45/70. Garrett uses a melody wider than Buffalo Bore. My Japanese 1895 Winchester is a 405 Win. I have never run a true flat point through it only Hornady rounded flat points. I had a Japanese 1873 and Henry 357s that feed LFP cast bullets from Buffalo Bore just fine. Neither Fed Keith style bullets. | |||
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I would recommend one never shoot spitzer bullets in a lever gun that has the tube magazine holding a pointed bullet against a primer. that's pretty common knowledge, and some suggest not even a round nose of which I would agee depending on recoil such as the 348 win and its big bore wildcats..I belive rn are ok for the 30-30 and such but spitsers never IMO..therefore the flat nose bullets must be used and made to feed and a good gunsmith or a good factory rifle will feed flat nose bullets.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Bought a NOE mold that is cut in the RanchDog style. Made to fill the large throat in a Marlin. In my 44 mag and 444 marlins, that bullet feed perfect, and that is with the wide meplat. I have one of the same style molds for my Marlin in 375 win. What brand of lever guns do you have? | |||
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Don't have on but thinking a 357 lever gun would be very fun and would want to shoot wide meplat bullets in cas I wanted to short range whack a pig or deer. But maybe 45 colt would be a better choice. Anybody got any recommendation for a 357 and 45 LC levergun Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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See if you can find a Rossi 92 in 45 colt. They are strong enough to hotrod the cartridge up to serious power levels. I have one in 357 and 480 ruger. Both shoot as well as you can expect a short barreled iron sight gun to be. I've shot a couple blackbears in the cornfields with the 480. 440 grn WFN at 1600 fps. Range was about 15-20 ft, down they went. | |||
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Thanks! Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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For CAS, the most used design is the 1873 winchester. This design has many aftermarket parts that turn it into a fast shooter. The 1866 Winchester is the same action, very fast for CAS. These are toggle link action and not made for heavy loads. The Marlin 1894 would be the next most popular and is chambered in 44 magnum. So warm loads in .357 and 45 Colt are acceptable. The Winchester 92 design ( includes the Rossi) are the strongest and can be hot rodded, however, the are slower to operate ( noticeably) than the other Winchester design. The Henry is considered a 'starter' rifle for CAS and very, very few use them because the action runs slow and there are no aftermarket kits for them. Also the older models had tube loading with no side gate and it was seen as less safe and easy to use. If I was hunting, I would take my pick between the 92, marlin 1894 or Henry. If I am going dual use and want to be competitive in CAS, the Marlin is the best compromise. | |||
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The Japanese Winchester 92 all in. The 1873 can get you 1200 fps with a 255 grain bullet. Buffalo bore commercially loads they at standard pressure, or there are various standard pressure handloads out there. The 200 grain Barnes xtp factory load will get you to 1100-1200 fps. I do not have familiarity w the Pedersolia/Uberti/Cimarron versions. I tend to think the pedersolias are better than ubertis. That is pure speculation based on touching a few. | |||
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Mike, I have a newly made for Winchester by Miroku 1873 in .357 Magnum that I use for cowboy silhouette. It will feed most any bullet shape including wadcutters. The one issue is that you have to make sure cases are the correct length for reliable feeding. In my experience that means an overall cartridge length of at least 1.5 inches for reliable feeding. That said, mine is beautiful to look at and shoots under two inches at 100 yards with a tang peep and globe front sight. I wouldn't hot rod a '73, but have no qualms about normal .357 Magnum loads. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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My old Win 92 feeds flat nose bullets and all factory bullets are flat nose..Win factory 92s all feed 110 percent it seems to me and I've played with a lot of them..Same with the 94s Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I think we can all agree that there are traditional rounded, flat noises bullets and the Wide Flat Nosed and Ling Flat Nosed used today for hunting. There was a gentleman here that did a lot of work with them including the Punch Bullet feels like a decade ago? Whitmore? Maybe his photo was a large boar. | |||
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Whitworth is his "handle' Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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92 and 94's were set up to feed flat noses so a pointy bullet would not encounter the primer ahead of it in a tube magazine Loud n Boomer hit it dead on...about the only important thing is OAL: Feeding is controlled by catridge guides... they don't care about bullet shape, since all feeding is controlled by the case/guide "interface" (as the computeer folks put it) Remington, of course made tube magazines with sort of a corkscrew design to cant the pointy bullet away from the primer of the cartridge in front of it | |||
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My 1894 marlin in 45 Colt feeds 200 and 250 gr flat point hard cast bullets reliably. I never had to make any tweaks. I use Rogers better bullets, or Missouri Bullets. Most of the guys at my club that shoot cowboy use Better Bullets, and some Missouri in 38, 44 and 45 all flat point bullets and all feed reliably in marlins and Winchesters and some Henrys NRA Benefactor. Life is tough... It's even tougher when you're stupid... John Wayne | |||
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Mike, the 45 Colt is a way better deer killer than any 357 IMO, based on kills and observed results. I found the 357 is on the week side for deer and pigs. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Having seen a couple dozen deer killed with the 357mag and 357max with 158grsp's. I agreed. | |||
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my Rossi 92 feeds lead semi-wadcutters without a hitch, in .357 and .38 special...no issues. NRA Patron Life Member | |||
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