How do you like your 50/110 lever gun?

Does anybody have a 510 Kodiak express? How do you like it?

I would like to know what make/model your rifles are, and who built them.

What are your best loads, useing heavy bullets.Have you shot any big bears with these loads?

Thanks

Anyone out there with some data? I am interested as well in the 50-110. Thanks Packy

I recently purchased a 50/110 from another AR member in Oz. It was built in Melbourne on a Win 1886 repro. It is well made and weighs in at around 8 lbs 9 oz empty. It is fitted with a 22inch bbl with a 1 in 20 inch twist.

In the US there are several gunmakers that can perform this conversion. The most notable being Dave Clay in Texas, Turnbull and also believe that McGowen does them as well. Although Mick McPherson specialises in Marlin conversions, he would probably also be a potential starter. It is a tricky conversion to get done correctly, with the major issues being feeding, OAL and keeping the magazine in place (due to heavy recoil). Dave Clay also reports major issues with stocks coming apart due to heavy recoil.

Load data is thin on the ground for this calibre. There is some low pressure data around but for high pressure loadings you are literally in no mans land here, so tread carefully. All these rifles are custom units so data needs to be worked up accordingly. So with that caveat here are my findings:

Nett water capacity (Bertram cases) is around 81 grains (with 440 Bertram or 500 Woodleigh) and expansion ratio is around 15.5. To put this into perspective the 45/70 has an expansion ratio of 16.5 (400 gr & 2.55 LOA) and the 458 Win mag has an expansion ratio of 12 (400 gr & 2.95 LOA). So powder selection should be more like 45/70 than 458.

So far I have been using a handful of Bertram cases for my loading. I have a quantity of Starline cases coming in and loading will commence in earnest when they arrive. The Bertram cases are not too shabby though and stand up well. One thing that was a bit of a surprise to me was that the head diameter is slightly larger than the 348 Win. I had assumed it to be the same, as the 348 was based on the 50/110. Head diameters are: 50/110 = 0.552 & 348 = 0.545

From my figuring & discussion with others, powders in the burning rate range of 4198 - 4895 seem to be the most suitable. For my loading so far I have been using Bertram 440 gr flat nose projectiles - these are relatively new and are designed for the 500 BPE. So far I have used IMR 4064 and AR 2206 (equiv to BL C-2 & AA2230). No chrono data so far. I think AR2206 holds more promise as it is slighly slower than 3031 as well as being denser. More testing and chrono data will bear this out. As you would expect it is a real handful off the bench. So far I have worked up to 77gr of 4064 and 72gr of AR 2206 with pressure signs so far OK in my rifle. I am using Rem 9.5 Mag primers and there are no ignition problems at all and no unburnt powder either. These loads are fine in my rifle and you will need to work up your own data.

Bertram projectiles are made with jackets designed for the 50 BMG and they are THICK. Bertram is not trying to market them as game bullets and suggests using them for plinking 'beer cans' ! We have tough beer cans in this part of the world. They are a cup and core design (not a bonded core) and are relatively inexpensive but I am sure they will work well on game anyway. I sectioned one to check construction and they are very stout indeed - much much stiffer than equivalent 45/70 bullets. Cannelure is not right for use in the 50/110 and Bertram should consider fitting two cannelures. Ultimately I will be casting for this calibre and have gathered most of what I need to do this. I will soon spec up some moulds for it.

Jacketed bullets are made by Woodleigh (500 gr FN), Barnes (300 & 450 gr FN), Bertram 440 FN (for the 500 BPE) and 535 FN (cannelure also not right for 50/110). I'm sure there are others in the US. There are not many cast designs suitable for the 50/110. However relatively inexpensive moulds can be specified from suppliers like Mountain Moulds. They also supply very reasonably priced 50 cal gas checks (Gator checks). Cost was only 27 usd/1000 when I bought mine.

In case you are not aware there are at least three 50 cal gas checks available that I am aware of. One for the 500 cal and two for 510 cal. The 510 cal have two different lengths, so spec up moulds (ie gc shank length) and order gas checks accordingly. Gator make both 510 lengths.

My rifle was fitted with an aluminium Lyman 66 but they are not up to this sort of recoil. I swapped it out for a steel one designed for a 94 and apart from being a little narrow, it seems OK.

Others who have these rifles report velocities of up to 2200 fps with 520 gr cast, which is plenty for any game I would imagine. You can perhaps understand why buttstocks keep splitting. Dave Clay is apparently working on a synthetic stock option.

Finally, the only bears in this part of the world are koala bears and they are fully protected. Besides, the big 50 would be way too much gun for them anyway.

Hope this helps.

Joe

Mic McPherson has just completed 2 Marlin conversions in 510 kodiak express. Mine has a 23 1/2" barrel, the other gun belongs to a gentleman in Georgia and has an 18" barrel. Preliminary testing shows a 450 grain bullet driven to 2245 ft/sec and a 500 grain bullet driven to 4915 ft/sec out of my gun using 79 grains of IMR 3031 on the 450 grn, and 74 grains on the 500 grn. bullet. The 18" barrel gun got 2114 ft/sec with the 450 grn. bullet, and 1999 ft/sec with the 500 grain bullet using the same powder loads as my gun used. These are not absolute maxes, but they are getting into the upper range limit. More testing to be done in a couple of weeks. The 510 kodiak express is a 50 alaskan with an increased length of 23/100ths of an inch.

BD700,

that 4915fps load has got to be a real bone breaker!



Rich
DRSS

Idaho sharpshooter, thanks for catching that ERROR on my part. It should have read 2104 ft/sec for 4195 ft.lbs of energy with a 500 grain bullet. Sorry about getting it typed wrong.

Now we have a buffalo gun, a 50 cal. 500 gr. bullet at 2104 FPS will definately stop a buffalo..At last the 45-70 has been laid to rest!

Recently had a 50-110WCF built on a Browning Mod 71. It has got a 22" barrel, full length magazine, one mercury recoil reducer in the buttstock + Pachmayer pad and a Lymann 66 peep. Weighs a little over 9 lbs.
It is a beutiful gun. I have not had time to shoot it much yet, but so far I have used a 510gr. WFNGC lead bullet in front of a healthy dose of H4895 for 1800fps. It shoots very well.

Vasa