Many of us own firearms that have history. Oh, not “museum grade” history complete with stacks of dusty provenance, but history of a personal or family nature. Grandad’s old shotgun. Uncle Frank’s big N frame Smith revolver from when he was with the Highway Patrol. Your first .22.

I’m no different; in fact, I’m probably worse than most. Most every firearm I own has a place in my heart and memories; and some of the stories are more complex than others. If you’ll allow me, let me share the story of a rifle that has been a part of my hunting career from the beginning…

It was a BIG gun. Of course, all of Daddy’s guns were big to a kid like me…so that measure wasn’t particularly useful. It was a Winchester Model 1892 and it had seen better days. Oh, it hadn’t been abused but it had certainly been thoroughly USED, and for some time! The serial number indicates that it came off the Winchester production line in 1912 chambered for the .25-20 WCF. As my Dad didn’t arrive in this world until 1923, he very obviously wasn’t the original owner and I don’t know how it came into his possession.

He did have experience with the rifle though: he knew that the barrel was badly pitted from original black powder ammunition and he described the power and accuracy of the piece as “about like throwin’ rocks”. He set out to resolve the problems and in 1953 contracted with the folks at Winchester to re-barrel the rifle to the .218 Bee. It was in that form that I came to know the rifle. It was my first centerfire “hunting” rifle and accounted for my first whitetail buck. It also rode horseback with me, slipped into a scabbard under my right stirrup leather.

Despite that fact that we spent an awful lot of time together, the rifle wasn’t properly “mine” until my father’s death in 1995. By then I was a man grown with a family and guns of my own, and so the .218 languished in the vault for years. Oh, I’d drag it out every year to wipe it down, cycle the action, maybe run a handful of shells through it…but I didn’t hunt it. Frankly, there were better answers than that rifle for just about any question that arose.

In 2013 (during one of those annual wipe-down sessions) I made a decision to do something proper: both for that rifle and for the memory of my father, the man who set my feet on the hunter’s path. I decided that this odd little amalgam of a rifle would live again, and in its original chambering. A late friend made here on AR, Doubless, suggested that Robert Schuck of Weimar, TX might be the one to tackle this job. We spoke and he agreed to take on the project; I prepared a punch list of the work to be done. By the time he was finished, only the original action and butt plate would remain!

The old mismatched buttstock and fore-end got tossed, along with the .218 barrel and half-magazine tube. A 24” octagonal barrel was fitted and a full-length mag tube sourced and installed. I asked Robert to find some really nice wood for the piece; you’ll have to decide for yourself how successful he was! With everything fitted, Robert once again stripped the receiver down and sent it, the lever and butt plate to Turnbull Restoration for their color case hardening voodoo. Final assembly and the installation of a tang site and front bead made the project complete.

The rifle began life as a .25-20 in 1912 and became a .218 Bee in 1953. After 61 years, it became a .25-20 once again…and as an heirloom piece at that. Of course, if Daddy was still around, he’d snort and tell me, “Don’t see why you went and spent all that money changin’ that rifle. Wasn’t anything wrong with it the way it was.” And he’d be right, of course…but I believe that he’s looking down on that rifle (when nobody’s looking of course) and smiling.

Thanks, Daddy…I miss you.





A better angle on the stockwork

Thank you for a beautiful story.
You've done a wonderful thing in restoring a beautiful heirloom.

BTW, anyone would smile when they look at that rifle!

Nice restoration for sure..congrats, your pappy will approve..

nice work.

Great rifle, and even better story to go with it.

quote:

Robert Schuck

Did a fantastic job in redoing this rifle.

It looks great

A before picture would be a nice addition.

But is it really the same rifle Kind of like hot rodding a 56 chevy by law it most likely a 56 chevy but is it really.

Beautiful rifle and story, thanks for sharing!

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Robert Schuck

Did a fantastic job in redoing this rifle.

It looks great

A before picture would be a nice addition.

But is it really the same rifle Kind of like hot rodding a 56 chevy by law it most likely a 56 chevy but is it really.

Thanks to all who commented. This was a labor of love (although Robert Schuck did all the labor!).

PDS, I'll have to dig a bit and see if I have a "before" picture. It wasn't terribly photogenic then so grabbing a picture wasn't something that often crossed my mind!

As to it being the "same rifle": heck, it hasn't been the same rifle since Dad had Winchester re-barrel it in '53! And I'd also bet that it didn't look like this brand new in 1912. No, this is a tribute...plain and simple. It merely shares the same serial number as the original, but when I take this piece afield (and I do now!) I get to spend time with the memories of my Dad, and that makes it all worth it!

And I had to chuckle when you mentioned "hot rod"...I'd bet that's the first time that phrase was EVER associated with a .25-20 of any stripe!

Mark

What a great story and what a great restoration. Thank you for sharing.

DITTO ON ALL THE ABOVE!!!!!!!!!!

That rifle is so gorgeous I would be concerned taking through the front door...or ANYWHERE outside my home.

Good Hunting

I gotta admit that I'm maybe a TAD more careful with this rifle than any of my other saddleguns!

Sweet!

VERY NICE. I have a 92 in 25-20 as well but not near as nice as yours.You + your dad should be proud.at the risk of indelicansy (I admire this man's work on the heat treating + woodwork) would you feel comfortable in disclosing the cost of this project? Could'nt be more than Doug Turnbull + he does excellent work as well.I tried a few years ago to get Turnbull to do a renovation on a S+W 2nd model HE in .45 Colt w/ the lend/lease stamps on it from Britain + then home but they did not work on S+W.s.

i have a marlin, maybe, been in the safe hidden too long to remember, pump in 25-20 belonged to my grandmother. she hunted deer in south texas with it and i killed my first mulie with it in west tx. i have been wanting to drag it out and start getting it in "pass down shape". is there reloading data readily available?

John,

There is reloading data available out there...just not a wealth of it. For a start, you might check out the Hodgdon data online.

Mark

thanks. now i don't have to spend a lotta time chasing rainbows since i know its out there.

Finding components are probably a greater challenge than finding reloading data.


I load cast bullets which are easily come by, as well as Hornady 60 grain slugs.

Brass is harder to come by. I scrounged a decent supply, then found several boxes of Remington factory ammo and bit the financial bullet and bought them. I figure that supply will last longer than I will!

Mark

Very nice rifle and a touching story. I hope my son might do as much someday.

John C., not only do I load for this calibre but I cast for it as well.If you ever do make it down here I can fire up the casting pot + send you home with some. Loading data is readily available.

i'll do it. i pour a little too, but a lot less these days. ready mades would be welcome!

What a wonderful project and legacy rifle. Closest I have come to owning a .25-20 was an old, tired 92 in .32-20.
Your smith did a marvelous job, and God bless the memory of Scott/Doubless.

Yes Sir, Scott was indeed a good man. Gone too soon...

John C. take your time,if I have a lull in the work load I can do a batch + size + lube + send them to you. Easy on my part.You are the one with family health issues. I'll get a batch ready along W/ loading info.All I need is a shipping address.Best,Randy

Thanks for sharing.

Threads like these adds fuel to my love for leveraction rifles.

Another Thing I may add. Our danish TV station DR K are showing westerns the entire week..every day. Mostly classics. Yesterday was John Wayne movies, What not to like when sitting with a Winchester and watch Westerns ?...tell me..please..

thanks randy! that'd be great. i'll PM it to ya

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
Thanks for sharing.

Threads like these adds fuel to my love for leveraction rifles.

Another Thing I may add. Our danish TV station DR K are showing westerns the entire week..every day. Mostly classics. Yesterday was John Wayne movies, What not to like when sitting with a Winchester and watch Westerns ?...tell me..please..

Jens,

I'm glad to know that an irrational love of lever guns is also an international affliction! Truth is (kept within reasonable application) a saddlegun can be a very fast and effective tool...regardless where you are on our planet!

About 20 years ago, a professional hunter friend in Zimbabwe was hunting leopard with dogs and found that he was often switching back and forth between rifle and shotgun. I had a gunsmith here in the States tune up a .45-70 Marlin (this was before the Guide Guns came out) and gave it to him. It worked so well that he loaned it to several clients who used it successfully and later went on to have their own made! I always thought of it as a .458 Kurtz...

Enjoy the movies (heaven knows I do!),

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 218 Bee:


Jens,

I'm glad to know that an irrational love of lever guns is also an international affliction! Truth is (kept within reasonable application) a saddlegun can be a very fast and effective tool...regardless where you are on our planet!

About 20 years ago, a professional hunter friend in Zimbabwe was hunting leopard with dogs and found that he was often switching back and forth between rifle and shotgun. I had a gunsmith here in the States tune up a .45-70 Marlin (this was before the Guide Guns came out) and gave it to him. It worked so well that he loaned it to several clients who used it successfully and later went on to have their own made! I always thought of it as a .458 Kurtz...

Enjoy the movies (heaven knows I do!),

Mark

Thanks Mark

Yesterday was spaghetti westerns. .

Tonight they feature High noon, Gun fight at Ok corral and Shane.
After I had watched 'Shane' the first time..all I ever wanted was a nickel plated Colt SAA with 7,5" barrel with no front sight. Later I bought one with front sight.

Jens, as to watching Westerns with a levergun at hand, try it sometime sitting in a McClellan saddle on a stout saddle stand.
Just sayin'. Almost as good as watching "Zulu" whilst wearing a foreign service helmet and holding a Martini ...

I forget the authors name now but he wrote the book "The Eagle Has Landed" made into a movie with Michael Caine + Robert Duvall. Anyway said writer would dress up in a German uniform to inspire him during writing sessions.

Wikipedia says the writer's name is Jack Higgins,

Nice. Wood is fantastic and case coloring makes it all pop.

I was happy a few years ago to walk into a Gander mountain and unexpectedly leave with a Marlin CL in 32-20. Last spring I found a nice S&W Hand Ejector, cicra 1922 according to the factory letter that came with it. Having a C&R license was nice as UPS delivered it straight to me. My first handgun purchase after having the license for almost 15 years.

Thanks Sambar,Jack Higgins sounds right.Good book + movie as well.That movie + Second hand Lions (another great one) were the only 2 movies that those 2 actors worked together on. In the former Donald Pleasence makes a PERFECT Heinrich Himmler.

I used to work with a bloke who knew him in real life, Norman, and he would say the man was only playing himself.

More to the point, 218 Bee, that is truly a great-looking rifle. The wood reminds me of looking into some sun-dappled swimming pool.

Nice Job
Time to make some new memories

The 25-20 was the reason my early love for the 25-35 Win, it was a true magnum in my 14 year old gray matter!! I never had to chase another deer or antelope or even elk with it, the 25-20 let me down more than once on deer and antelope, and the M1 carbine was a disaster.......My uncle had a real magnum, a Sav 99 TD in 300 Savage and when it barked an elk hit the dirt, I swore when I grew up Id own one of those magnums in 300 Savage..Settled some moons later for a 99f or two in .308..It all started with a 25-20 Rem pump carbine..Wish I still had that pretty little gun..

218, beautiful rifle, to be sure! I lucked on to a 1911 model round barrel rifle that had been re-lined in its original caliber, 25-20. As I was looking for a shooter, not a colectable, I made the deal and have really enjoyed shooting it. The local ground squirrels, not so much. Cast a Lyman 257420 of Clip on wheel weight, gas check and powder coat, hurried along with 3.4 gr Trailboss or 6 gr 2400 is grouse head accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
The 25-20 was the reason my early love for the 25-35 Win, it was a true magnum in my 14 year old gray matter!! I never had to chase another deer or antelope or even elk with it, the 25-20 let me down more than once on deer and antelope, and the M1 carbine was a disaster.......My uncle had a real magnum, a Sav 99 TD in 300 Savage and when it barked an elk hit the dirt, I swore when I grew up Id own one of those magnums in 300 Savage..Settled some moons later for a 99f or two in .308..It all started with a 25-20 Rem pump carbine..Wish I still had that pretty little gun..

Ray,

It's funny how my cartridge preferences have come about full circle in this life. Started out with the .218 (and believed that Daddy's .243 was a "magnum"!), grew into bigger stuff and then into heavy hitters...now I'm back to .25-20s, .32-20s, .38-55s, oh and of course a "modern" .250 Savage! The whole ride has been a hoot!

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Les Staley:
218, beautiful rifle, to be sure! I lucked on to a 1911 model round barrel rifle that had been re-lined in its original caliber, 25-20. As I was looking for a shooter, not a colectable, I made the deal and have really enjoyed shooting it. The local ground squirrels, not so much. Cast a Lyman 257420 of Clip on wheel weight, gas check and powder coat, hurried along with 3.4 gr Trailboss or 6 gr 2400 is grouse head accurate.

Thanks, Les!

That Lyman mold throws a 65-ish grain slug, right? Any idea of the velocities you're getting?

Mark

I think your dad would be highly pleased if he could see what you did with his old winchester. And that is a beautiful set of wood. Frank