Howdy guys,
I am seriously considering a SW 617 4" stainless for my "heavy 22 pistol"

What I want is a gun that can shoot the aquila SSS VERY well, as this may, from time to time, be called upon to dispatch a sleeping hoggie or bunnie at up to 75 yards.

Am I good enough to do that? today, probably not, but I want to be that good.

Any thoughts on this? I had been thinking about the taurus 990 (not 970) which will be the tracker with a 4" barrel, but taurus can't even say when they will be made, and I want to get this done sooner rather than later.

jeffe

i don't know of any 22 that will shot that aquila ammo decent. bullet is to big and heavy for the twists available. other than that somewhere back in a rack i've got a 617 steel model in 6" that you can plink june bugs off the yard with at 50-75'

thanks Butch - that helps -- any mods done to yours, or just as it was?

my p22 and my mossberg 144LS all shot both shot them very well.. i traded off the p22 for soemthing or other (forgot which) and i have had 1/2 a dozenb other autoloader 22s... fun, sure, but i tend to get clipitis with them, and "when in doubt, dump the clip"

i've had a couple 22 revolvers..and this time, I want a wicked accurate one.

if i have to, I'll rebarrel, as SSS will flat out KILL small pigs, with ear shots.

no mods - nice ser # on it though 3 digits

I have never used Aquila ammo, but my 617 seems to do well with most every thing I have put in it, other than some of the CCI Stinger which it didn't like too good.

quote:

if i have to, I'll rebarrel,

Find a blued K-17 and put a .22LR PPC type gun together with the correct twist bull barrel and the full ramp sights.

Be a way cool handgun.

Probably lot's of used components around.

I would love to do that.. 15 twist should do it, which the taurus has..

thinking its going to be a taurus 94ss4 that i can "afford" to tune up and, if needed, rebarrel .. if I rebarrel, it sill be a nil clearance setup..

the SSS bullets are just CRAZY, and yeah, I want a niche gun.. if it shoots the SSS well, in single action, i'll have my "herepiggie" trail gun too!!

jeffe

Sorry, I haven't tried the ammo you mentioned but I have done quite a bit of testing with both a 617 (SS cylinder 10-shot) and a 17 (6-shot).

In my tests, with several types of ammo, there is no comparison of the accuracy between the two.

I think the difference in my case is because the 617 has a 4" barrel where the 17 has a 6" barrel. The groups out of the 617 are typically at least twice the size of those shot by the 17, with every type of ammo I've tried.

The 17 will shoot true bragging sized groups where as I'm usually assamed to shoot the 617 in public.

Both have factory barrels and action jobs. I really think it's the sight radius that makes all the difference.

I just can't picture a "tack-driving" 4" gun but maybe I have different standards than other people.

Kyler

Thanks Kyler -- you are the first person to "have the nerve" to speak bad of a SW pistol for accuracy ..

There's a gunshow this weekend.. and I have all of the following.. cash in hand, time, desire, and the wife is traveling!

I have found a middle ground - either the taurus 94 or a sw 63 .. the weight is okay, and looks good to boot..

i could get a taurus and rebarrel to a fast twist gun and get a trigger+action job for the price of the SW ..

Jeffeosso, I will follow Kyler that my 617 6 inch isn't that great in the accuracy department. At least when compared to my Ruger mark two with a 10 inch barrel and S&W 41 with a 5.5 barrel. My ruger single action and the 617 are equal for me. It maybe my grip or the ammo but the accuracy is lacking for me so far.

thanks -- i am wondering what i'll see at the gunshow.... perhaps i'll find a taurus 94ss and can work from there...

I have had several auto loaders, and yep, very accurate -- but i don't "like" them

Just plinking off my back porch, my 617-6 shoots aluminum cans fairly easy at about 30 yards or so. The Remington Golden Bullet seems to be the most consistant. I have tried CB Longs and Agila super calibris, both subsonic but don't seem as consistant as the faster and heavier Remingtons. Have a box of CCI Stinger "Hypervelocity" 32 grain hollow point advertised at 1,640 fps to try later. Rodney.

you dog!!
i need to borrow you 617!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
What I want is a gun that can shoot the aquila SSS VERY well, as this may, from time to time, be called upon to dispatch a sleeping hoggie or bunnie at up to 75 yards.

Am I good enough to do that? today, probably not, but I want to be that good.

Any thoughts on this?

75 yard shots using a 4" barreled 22 rimfire using the factory open sights? Sounds like a stunt to me.

Dave,
I've killed hogs with 22mag RIFLES at that distance ... may not be achievable, and "stunt" .. heck, i kill em with .510 570gr at 2200 fps.. that's a stunt too, right? or with a 50 bmg? or a 550 express? all of these things I have done..

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Dave,
I've killed hogs with 22mag RIFLES at that distance ... may not be achievable, and "stunt" .. heck, i kill em with .510 570gr at 2200 fps.. that's a stunt too, right? or with a 50 bmg? or a 550 express? all of these things I have done..

I still don't see a 4" barreled .22 rimfire wheelgun in your list of bragging rights. So it's still uncharted territory I take it?

Hey, you asked for comments. And I think a 4" sight radius is awful short for accurate bullet placement out to 75 yards shooting only a rimfire. I didn't say it couldn't be done or you couldn't do it.

Not to get too offtrack, but I recall another poster on this forum that said he couldn't recommend a buddy of his buy a 30-30 rifle cause the bullets wouldn't penetrate a 'piggie's' shield.

Just so I can get my mind wrapped around handgun hunting 'piggies' with a .22 rimfire, what margin of error is allowed when you spot one at 75 yards? Also, is this full growed or a shoat?

Dave,
I don't assume you mean to come over a might pushy on this, though that's the tone I am reading. I certainly didn't mean to offend you with my goal of trying to find out if this can be done.

If you don't think 4" at 75 yards can be done with a WORKED OVER pistol, then we are in the same club...thanks ... think it can be done at 50?
Its about CAN IT BE DONE

mebbe.. and I am willing to put my time and money and efforts into finding out

I guess it just depends on your requirements for accuracy. My 4" 617 that I whined about will keep all the shots in a soda can at 30 yards with several types of common ammo. BUT you can just about pick which large letter you want to hit with my 6" 17 and with good enough eyes a guy could pick which small letter on the can he wants to hit with my 7" M-41.

As to "stunts" I think hitting any little critter with an open sighted short barreled pistol at much over 40 yards is a good trick. I strut with my chest pretty far out for a couple days after I can pull that off. My personal best pistol "stunt" was one really unlucky rabbit at 132 paces with that 6" 17. BUT the rabbit had quite a contrasting background and I'd reloaded the cylinder several times... it was more a case of a bunny having a bad day than good shooting.

Obviously it would be nice if you could shoot the gun a bit before you buy but that's a rare situation. I don't know if the barrel is even your primary concern for extreme accuracy on a wheel gun. The chambers are so tight on my 17 it's not much fun to unload. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's clean, dirty or anywhere in between. I've heard Smith would fix it but I'm afraid it will open up the groups so I put up with it.

That seems like a common problem on the S&W forums and the repair results aren't always in the best interest of accuracy.

Kyler

thanks .. Rodney is being nice enough to let me shoot his a bit to see how it goes.. the taurus 94 is "close enough" to a 63 that at the end of the day, I will first start with a high quality, first line maker and see what i can do with that. If its not possible, but nearly possible, I'll get the 94 and in SA only, see what it can do, then put, probably a shilen or mcgowen or pacnor, tight twist barrel on it.

but if the 617 and I can't hit a paperplate, with regular ammo, at 75 yards, I need to know my limits.. I am willing to chaulk up this idea, and the experience gained from it, as a bad idea/dreaming

and then move on, if needed..

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
I guess it just depends on your requirements for accuracy.

Kyler, you're just the gent who could answer that question. Now, I don't have any idea if California 'piggies' and Texas 'piggies' are equal in the force required to bag one. Are they? Do you guide hunts for folks that desire to hunt them with a 4" barreled .22 rimfire? About how big of a kill zone is there when using such a weapon? 2"? 3"?

See, like I said before, I'm trying hard to understand using such a weapon. The short barrel seems suited for easy carry while spot & stalking game. But if jeffe's sitting up in one of those stands\huts\blinds, well what's the purpose of such a short barrel if you just lean it on the window sill to make the shot?
What's next? A snub-nosed banker's special with no rear sight at all?

Jeffe, you didn't offend me. I'm just trying to learn how other folks hunt game animals in other parts of our nation. Perhaps I should elaborate on 'my' definition of stunt.

Taking pot shots at game animals from so far a distance that they aren't disturbed when your first shot misses. Then lobbing in more bullets until you figure out the likely windage and elevation until you finally get one in the flesh, be it vitals or guts. Meant to slow down the critter until you get closer to make a more accurate shot to finish it off. Having a white poster board and Sharpie along to record the accomplishment for all to see on Al Gore's internet is optional. I didn't mean stunt as in Ed McGivern's trick shooting.

Barrel length has very little to do with accuracy and 4 inches is plenty long enough to shoot good groups with at 50 yards. I've never tried one at 75 so can't comment. Given that good bullseye shooters can regularly place MOST of their bullets into a 2 inch bull at 50 yards using 5 inch .45 barrels ONE HANDED slow fire then hitting a 2 inch target with an accurate revolver at 75 yards should not be a problem for a good shot using a rest. Anybody seen the tape of Bob Munsen who hits a gong at 300 yards with a snub nosed .38?

I've got quite a few blued 17s and the older models, post WWII, had a 1 1/2 inch 5 shot group at 50 yards guarantee. This, of course, is with a 6 inch barrel. Given that we've got better ammo today than was available back then, smaller groups should be attainable. I don't have any of the 617s but I'll probably correct that sometime. Always wanted one of the 10 shot models.

I'm not sure about the SSS bullets accuracy, but if it is accurate in a K22 then I'd have no problems shooting something at 75 yards, using a rest, the size of a beer can. We shoot from a standing position beer bottles at 100 yards with a scoped FA 97 .22 and a red doted Volquartsen MKII and while we don't hit them all by any means, they're not very safe either.

All that said, I'd want my pigs to be MUCH closer than 75 yards IF I had to shoot one with a .22, especially a revolver. I've personally only killed 2 pigs with a .22LR, both using rifles, one was a 40 pound type shoat that escaped as we were transferring him from a trap, and I got him at about 40 yards as he stopped to figure out where his litter mates were, that was with an older Sako .22 rifle which I have since given to my son. One shot, .22 golden Rem HP, behind shoulder and he rolled over. The other one was a 150 to 200 pound type boar that I shot with a target .22 I had along with me, range was probably about 75 yards and I brained him, using a dozer blade as a rest, he rolled over but was not completely dead so I shot him again. Right now I can't remember whether I used Win Power Points or Rem goldens for that shot. I used a Chinese .22 bolt action, very accurate rifle. In both cases, the .22s were all that I had available. In both cases, I'd have used a bigger gun if I had one.

I like the 63 but it is not going to have the accuracy of a K22. I wouldn't choose it for your specified uses.

Like I mentioned above mine is a great killer of aluminum cans at 30 yards or so, even single handed. The 617 that I have is over the counter factory stock, I believe a good trigger job would greatly improve the consistancy of grouping at least in my hands. Just imagine what a trigger job and a good scope set-up could do for it. I'll be givin the squirrals heck in our spring season. Rodney.

just got back from Rodney's -- was able to connect wiht a soda can every time form 20-40 yards, no matter what way it turned, and a 4 MOA unrested pair of groups..

i didn't bring any SSS, but we had fun plinking around after proofing my 45/120 double

might could work, might not, we'll see

Dave,

Rimfires aren't legal for pigs in CA. Even if they were I wouldn't offer that hunt because I don't think a person could regularly make ethical kills with a rimfire. Our hunts are spot-n-stalk so even getting within handgun or archery distance can be tricky enough much less rimfire distance.

If a person is just looking for light weight and easy to carry you should look at the S&W m-329. It has 4" barrel portability, fullhouse .44 Mag. power, and much ligher weight than than a 617. Oh, but they do kick a bit...

However, in texas, its legal to hunt hogs with any legal hunting means AND pest removal AND agricultural methods. nearly every caliber, including rim fires, are legal, to hunt with here, except for certain specifically excluded animals.

Kyler,
I have a vaquero in 45 that I can go that same thing with, and I am not interested in a center fire for this solution. Remember.. lol, Mike D aint the only stubburn IT person!

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
If a person is just looking for light weight and easy to carry you should look at the S&W m-329. It has 4" barrel portability, fullhouse .44 Mag. power, and much ligher weight than than a 617. Oh, but they do kick a bit...

Can one shoot 4" groups at 75 yards with that 4" gun? I would think it would get worse, not better, due to nasty recoil and muzzle blast..

My 1970's vintage S&W #17 shoots 1 and 1/2" groups from a ransom rest at 50 yds. with target ammo, but will not shoot Aquila SSS inside 6" at that range. I had a 4" S&W .22 mag. several years ago that was very accurate.

I am a .22 handgun nut. Currently own a S&W 41, Browning Buckmark target, S&W 22, Ruger single six, Taurus, and the S&W 617 (6 in barrel).
The 617 is the most accurate .22 revolver I ever owned. The 4 inch version is most likely just as accurate (maybe even better) but it would be more difficult to shoot it well due to the shorter sight plane.
Taurus quality seem to be hit and miss. Owned a few and some were great and others were traded off immediately.
I do own a Taurus ss .22 magnum that is a tack driver.
Finally, you did not ask this question but years ago I remember reading an article in the NRA magazine about the Freedom Arms .22 revolver. The article stated the revolver was the most accurate .22 pistol or revolver they ever tested. And this included match single shots and pistols used in olympic competion events.

i bought a taurus 94SS4 today and went to the range with Rodney --
we shot federal generic 22 ammo, remington "target" and, of course, SSS.

we only shot to 25yards... but were shooting off the clothes pins holding the target at 15 yards

about 1.75 to 2.25 nice groups at 25 yards, and it needs, SERIOUSLY, and might get even better with that having been done.

it shot BEST with the SSS - awesome .. the 94 has the fastest twist of the SW/Taurus candidates, and went right along.

at 25 yards, would I put a SSS in a pigs ear.. instantly .. at 50, right now, I would think about it.. but in 2 weeks, when i have the trigger job done, yep...

75 yards may be stretching it, but 50 will be easy with the trigger job.

Oh, it's not just me doing the shooting, it was Rodney and I shooting 3 different loads!

To say I am am happy would be an overstatement.. as when my wife gets home, she'll probably take it away from me.

I was also pleased with the Taurus. That little 4" barreled model shot very well right out of the box and to the range. A trigger job and little more range time would prove to be a deadly combination for squirral season. Dang- gonna have to get one of those too. Rodney.

I ordered 5 bricks of SSS --
Rodney, you have an email.. but if it tumbles at 50, I'll get a 1:10 twist and have Competitor put it on!

the SSS needs a 15.x twist, and the taurus has a 15.. so it's right at the edge

Ny Wife and my Mother are already trying to take it away from me

Keep it locked up... I will experiment more with the 617 this week and actually shoot some paper targets rather than aluminum cans. Rodney.

and just to be hard headhead - I have a shilien 1:10 match stainless barrel blank on the way.

seriously, for the cost of an untuned 617, i firmly believe I can build an awesome 94 trailgun.

I'll shoot it as is at 50 and see on a quiet day! too many shooters for that on sunday...

this could be fun!
jeffe

Jeff, Did Dan-Wesson make a 22? If they did, making up a barrel to work the sleeves/barrel covers(?) should be easy.

Jeff they do, here is a complete gun.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti...m.asp?Item=123038302
Here is what the barrel assemly looks like.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti...m.asp?Item=122638842
Does not look to bad to make in a 10 twist barrel.

and I love the look of the DW -- but the taurus was cheaper than any DW 22 i saw sell in 3 months -- in fact, i'll be in the taurus, with a 1:10 barrel, for less than what i was seeing most of the SW/DW/Colt guns for!

Made it to the range today with my 617-6 with 6 inch barrel. Put several different brands of ammo through it all at 25 yards. Seemed to like the Federal Champion better than others but the Remington stuff did OK too. Here are three 10 shot groups. These are representative of how out of practice I've become, but give me a little time and hopefully I can tighten the groups up a little. This is a stock factory over the counter revolver with no modifications to it. Rodney.

remember, 25 yards, on these... and without using match ammo -- Rodney, did you get the group with the SSS ?

we where just having a good time, after shooting rifles for a couple hours.

my 4" taurus wasn't much worse, but it NEEDS a trigger job -- but my taurus is getting a shilen 1:10 barrel for SSS bullets

OK here is the target with the Aguila Triple-S Sniper SubSonic ammo again at 25 yards and with the 6" barrelled Smith & Wesson model 617-6. These are 10 shot groups. Look closely at the top group and you can see where the heavy 60 grain bullets were barely stabilized with two of them making a keyhole. I didn't notice the keyholes until lastnight and had to count the holes to make sure. Rodney.

My 6" K-22 likes the Aguilla SSS and keeps them inside an inch at 50 yards.

That little revolver has done very well with every ammunition I've put through it.
It was shocking at first, but I've grown to accept it!

At some time three or four years ago I put a Leupold fixed power pistol scope on it and parked one of those little Leupold note-card scroll 'turrets' on the tube with come-up or down notes for different ammunition. The only issue I get from light to heavy loads is vertical stringing so dialing in for range or load is pretty simple.

Great little revolver.



Cheers
Tinker