The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Shooting Rim Fire Rifles & Pistols Next Test - Barrel Tuner!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have read a bit on barrel tuners, tried some and I cannot remember my results!!?? So, I have decided to run another test, and keep track of the results. We made a tuner and fitted it to the BRNO rifle I have re-barreled with the Lilja match barrel. I have marked it every 5mm on its diameter. I have picked 5 types of ammo. Eley Tenex Eley Sport Eley Match RWS Match Rifle SK Long Range Match. Plan is to shoot 5, 10-shot groups of each type of ammo. Then turn the tuner 10mm out and continue. I was told it requires very little change, hence the small amount of turn. Shooting is off the bench. I have already shot the first groups of the Eley Tenex, and SK. Shot very well at 50 yards. Will keep you posted on my results. | ||
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Watching. The really serious. 22 shooters at my old range wouldn't think of chasing ultimate accuracy without a tuner. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I confess that I have no idea what a barrel tuner is or looks like. Is it purely for target rifles? Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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As usual here, things sometimes develop legs and walk away! I confined the adapter we made to fit the action into the Young rest. Had to make another one. Already installed and sighted. Here is the procedure. I have selected various ammo which I have of the same lot number, in large enough quantities to do this test, as I am assuming it will require a lot. I have installed the tuner, tightened it. This means the tuner is part of the barrel, and I will unscrew it in about 10mm out for each run. This is supposed to alter the barrel vibrations, and we are supposed to get different accuracy! No idea how it is going to work out, so we are all in the dark. I will fire 10 shots of each type of ammo, before starting the test. This to make sure the barrel is lined with the same lube. 5, 10-shot groups will be fired of each type of ammo at the same setting. The tuner will be turned as I mentioned above by 10mm, and everything repeated. Got some shooters here almost salivating for the results!  | |||
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One more watching eagerly! | |||
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Having had the concept of a tuner explained to me (thank you, Saeed), my curiosity has been piqued. But so has my natural skepticism. I have not seen properly applied muzzle brakes or flash hiders or suppressors affect accuracy in any way, on any number of rifles. But I don't measure my groups to the thousandth of an inch. Empirical research is always interesting, but one seldom sees it done the right way. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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In all my 22 rimfire shooting, no matter what one does. Something always creeps in. I think because there are elements one cannot control. Barrels, actions, ammo. In center fire, one can almost be certain it is one element or another that is the weakest link. I have a bench rifle that shoots better than I can ever do. I have shot groups with it that are basically impossible to measure. Not so with rim fire. In this test, I have a rifle that I know basically shoots very well, by 22 rimfire standards. Talking to a few friends who are very good shots, and shoot 22 rim fire regularly, the discussion was whether to make the tuner in brass, steel or aluminium. I have opted for aluminium. Commercially made tuners on the market are in aluminium. Only point we thought of was the suggestions that the ammo lube might be a factor. That is why I am shooting 10 shots of each type of ammo to lube the barrel before proceeding with the test. Anyone with any suggestions please do not hesitate to tell me. | |||
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None of my muzzle devices is made of aluminum. All are steel or titanium, or combinations of titanium and steel, including super alloys. Inconel, a super alloy, is used in some of the suppressors. Titanium and Inconel are used by the best makers of suppressors, for their light weight and superior corrosion resistance. My suggestion, for purposes of economy, would be to use steel, which would be in keeping with the metal of the barrel itself. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Your devices are not tuners. All commercial tuners I have seen were aluminum. | |||
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But should they be? Why don't you try both steel and aluminum and see if it makes any difference?  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Mike, The idea of a tuner is to alter the vibrations of the barrel, it is immaterial what it is made of. Main object is to move the null point by altering the weight at the muzzle. I have no idea how it works, have not seen anything convincing yet from reading about it. A very close friend who is involved in the bench rest community told me very small changes are needed to see any differences. So we have made one out of aluminium, and I have already started the test. I suspect this going to be a long one. So I think once I have had one full turn, I will post my results, and carry on. Just to keep you all on your toes!  | |||
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If your rifle has a heavy barrel it may be too stiff to be affected by an aluminium tuner, in which case steel will be the only answer. Finding the sweet spot is likely to be a long and tedious task, but you have proved you're capable. | |||
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Isn't the Browning BOSS a tuner? | |||
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Yes it was. And I am not sure how successful it has been. I think there is a major difference between center fire and rim fire. Center fire one does have several options of improving the accuracy of his rifle. Not so much on rim fire. I still believe a good barrel, and match ammo, shoot very well. And I still believe the weakest link is the ammo. Having shot hundreds of thousands of rounds, I have always noticed even the very best, and most expensive, ammo, have the odd round that throws all the results haywire! | |||
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An engineer explained to me years ago that the BOSS (or any other "tuner") is just an adjustable dampener. When fired, a barrel vibrates in a sine wave. Ideally, the bullet would exit the barrel at the mid-point of the wave (node). That point being primarily governed by the barrel length and contour. Moreover, the bullet weight and powder charge affect the sine wave. Thats why reloaders can find their barrel's "sweet spot" by careful load development. IOW's they adjust the node to the muzzle. The non-reloader has few options. The first is to try different factory loads to find which one shoots best in a given rifle. The second is to alter the nodes. To my knowledge, there is no reliable/measurable way to determine exactly where the nodes are in a barrel for particular factory loads. If there were, you would have to cut your barrel length to a specific load. This option is not practical. That leaves one option - adjustable dampening. By attaching a mass to the barrel that can be securely moved from one location to another can be used to alter node location for specific loads. This is called tuning. So, in theory at least, it should work. Hi-power rifles require a heavier mass vs rimfires. Thats probably why aluminum works OK for .22's. My technique in using them has been to first find a brand and bullet weight your rifle "likes" with the tuner set to "0". Then, shoot groups moving the tuner out then in in hopes of finding a sweet spot. This sounds like what Saeed is proposing. Saeed, to reduce the chance for flyers, inspect all of your ammo and eliminate ones with wobbly bullets. Also, you can roll the bullets on a pane of glass to identify ones that have poor concentricity. | |||
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I agree with everything you said. My intention is to check both the tuner and ammo. Trying to select any round which might not look normal adds another angle to it, which I don’t want to get into. I have picked 5 types of ammo, a case of each. So all tests will be of the exact same lot. Been a bit busy with other things, so no shooting past few days. Almost getting withdrawn symptoms! | |||
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ok I read this many years ago reguarding sine wave location. Clamp the action in the vise, hang wire cloth hangers on the barrel and tap the barrel with a rubber hammer. The hangers will bunch up at the bottom of the wave. | |||
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That is the theory. Point is does it actually work in shooting?? | |||
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Saeed, it seems you have good control of the variables. The only one that concerns me (and I freely admit that I don't necessarily know what the hell I am talking about!) is whether the weight of the tuner is enough to make any material difference. Must be so, since you say that aluminum tuners are in use on rimfires as a matter of course. I had forgotten about the Boss system. It was a commercial failure. I have seen Browning rifles for sale with the inducement that the Boss device had been cut off! This should be interesting. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Mike, I understand very little change makes a lot of difference!! I was told this by someone shooting 22 matches. | |||
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They are apparently quite large compared to steel. That would give them the needed mass. https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id...D4&pid=Api&P=0&h=180
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I am very interested. Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Shooting Rim Fire Rifles & Pistols Next Test - Barrel Tuner!
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