Wow! That Tenex with the tuner at 4 is amazing!

Bill, the point is repeatability.

As I mentioned earlier, I will shoot groups one turn either side of the best group of each ammo.

And then I will shoot 5, 10-shot groups at the best setting if each ammo.

I will also shoot 5, 10-shot groups of each ammo without the tuner.

At the end we might be able to make an educated guess of what is happening.

Might take a few more days, as during the week the kids come here straight out of school to shoot!

Some of them are showing a marked improvement in pistol shooting.

I have graduated them to a Hammerli Match pistol, and the love it!

Clearly these 'tuners' have an effect. As I see it they are just a moveable mass hung on the end of the barrel. Their position must change the resonate frequency or frequencies of the barrel which in turn would change the horizontal/vertical position of the end of the barrel at the time the bullet exits??? If this is the case then I would think the 'tune' would be very sensitive to small things like temperature change, change in air density, etc.
Has anyone hung some accelerometers on the end of a barrel to see what is actually going on at the end of the barrel as the tuner is adjusted?
C.G.B.

Saeed, you have been thorough. Nice work, and thanks for sharing your results.

I may put one of these things on my Anschutz.

With the best groups you are getting, I might work backwards and forwards in half or maybe even quarter turn increments.

From all I have seen and heard about these devices, small adjustments can have big results.

I wouldn't bother with the ammo that is finishing last and second to last. Not interesting and too much work, at least for me.

Mike, I am doing that.

Example.

Best group was with 6 turns on the tuner.

I will shoot 10 shot groups at:

5, 5.25, 5.5, 5.75, 6, 6.25, 6.5, 6.75, 7 and 7.25

That should give us an idea.

That should do it!

I thought I might get some shooting in yesterday.

Then I get a call from a friend who has friends visiting from Germany, and one of them likes to shoot.

They came with their wives, had a bit of shooting, then one said after looking at the targets I have here to measure.

"Very interesting"

Suddenly, my friend burst out laughing, as he heard that in a German accent!

He pointed to the man and "Ah Sergeant Schultz!"

The German didnt know what the hell was going on.

Then we had to educate gim on one of our favorite characters, Sergeant Schultz from HOGAN's HEROS.

An old comedy about Allies prisoners of war in a German prison.

Off to Youtube to show them.

Then everyone was laughing, including our German victim!

Then he started talking EXACTLY like Schultz!

Everyone was laughing so much!

A local friend got a call from his wife, apparently she asked what all that noise was,

He said "Take a guess! We are in Saeed's mad house!"

I said "may be Sergeant Schultz should have a word with your wife?"

He hands him the phone, then he started talking to the Arab wife in German!

Hopefully I will get to shoot this weekend, and post the results.

Where was Col. Klink?

If only the real Nazis were as incompetent as those two.

I wish had more comedy shows like Hogans Heroes!

All the present ones I cannot stand!

Came back from our desert outing this morning, and did a bit of shooting.

As I mentioned before, I shot groups one turn less and one turn more of the best groups shown by each type of ammo.

I will pick the best group shot in each, and shoot 5, 10-shot groups to get an average.

I will do my final test, by shooting 5, 10-shot groups of each without the tuner.

This will conclude my test.

Hopefully we might get some sort of idea how things progressed.

Recap.

1. 5 types of ammo.
2. 10 shots groups of each at 50 yards without tuner.

3. 10 shot groups with tuner, closed and one full turn each. Sixteen turns.

4. Settings with the best group, one turn less and one turn more on the tuner.

5. Best group from the above, 5, 10 shot groups to get an average.

6. 5, 10-shot groups without tuner.

Any suggestions will be happy to hear them to finish this test.

You may get a perfect setting with one batch of cartridges, then have to reset for another.
I fitted an adjustable weight to an Air arms .177 PCP.
.5" groups at 25 yards from one tin, over an inch from another. Tuned in for the second tin (same make), first tin was all over the place.
I hope you have better luck, you deserve it.

That's a good idea. Get your best tuner setting with one lot of ammo, then try again with another lot of the same.

quote:

Originally posted by rikkochet:
You may get a perfect setting with one batch of cartridges, then have to reset for another.
I fitted an adjustable weight to an Air arms .177 PCP.
.5" groups at 25 yards from one tin, over an inch from another. Tuned in for the second tin (same make), first tin was all over the place.
I hope you have better luck, you deserve it.

The accuracy variations from different pellets in PCP air rifles is incredible.

I think because everone and his dog makes pellets.

I set up PCP rifles for relatives and friends, give them the right pellets for them.

Almost always the best accuracy is with either JSB, H&H or RWS pellets.

These are only found at specialist air rifle stores.

But, practically every corner shop out of town stocks pellets.

From all over the world.

People run out of pellets, and but some of those from these stores.

With unbelievable results!

I get calls "my rifle is not shooting well at all"

"What pellets are you using?"

"XYZ I bought from the shop on the road"

"There is your answer. Buy the same ones I gave you originally"

Problem solved.

Any questions will be gladly answered.

Really good groups and it seems the tuner definitely can make a difference. One question…other than “lubing” the barrel with all types of ammo early in the test, have you cleaned the barrel at all? I would imagine that might affect group size one way or the other.

No I haven’t.

I never clean 22 rim fire barrels.

Thank you Saeed! This will require study.

The tuner clearly helps.

But one does wonder with the smallest groups if the variation in group sizes is caused more by inconsistencies in the ammo than movement of the tuner.

.22s are so sensitive.

quote:

No I haven’t.
I never clean 22 rim fire barrels.

I don’t either…

For all types of ammo, the tuner improves average group sizes over average group sizes without the tuner. At the optimal tuner setting for each type of ammo, the improvements are as follows (all percentages are rounded):

Eley Match - 30% smaller
Eley Tenex - 45% smaller
Eley Edge - 10% smaller
Eley Contact - 10% smaller
Eley Rabbit - 20% smaller

Still, even with the tuner at its optimal setting for each type of ammo, the variations between the best individual and the average group sizes at that setting are significant.

With the tuner adjusted to produce the best individual group size for each type of ammo, the increase in the average group size over the best individual group size at that setting is as follows (all percentages are rounded):

Eley Match - 75% larger
Eley Tenex - 30% larger
Eley Edge - 110% larger
Eley Contact - 70% larger
Eley Rabbit - 55% larger

Because all other variables have been controlled, this variation must be caused by inconsistencies in the ammo.

This is a small sample, but these tests indicate that in this rifle Eley Tenex is the most consistent of the ammo tested and the most benefited by use of a tuner. Is this a coincidence?

I suppose the inconsistencies could be reduced by testing every match round produced in the world and by measuring and weighing each round to sort out the most consistent before they are fired, but where does this end?

Do match shooters do this? I know they segregate ammo according to production lot numbers but how far do they go?

Thank you, Saeed. Very interesting tests. They really show not only the benefit of a tuner but also how ammo-sensitive even the most accurate, tuner-equipped .22 rifle truly is.

quote:

Because all other variables have been controlled, this variation must be caused by inconsistencies in the ammo.

This is a true fact of 22 rim fire ammo.