We are running a test on the effects of a barrel tuner.

Rifle : Anschutz 1451
Tuner : Hoen 4000 Plus
Ammo : Lapua Club bulk pack


The tuner has over 20 full turns, each turn is divided into 25 increments.

I am shooting 2, 10-shot groups, at each full turn.

I will let you know who it goes.

Hoen 4000 Plus Barrel Tuner Test

Excellent! I always wondered how well these worked. For a while there I saw them on BR50 guns.
Peter.

Similar to the BOSS muzzle weight /brake on the Browning/Winchester rifles?
How much linear travel of how much weight per turn?
Got a link to a picture of the contraption?
Should be interesting to see if you find one or more sweet spots ...

Hoen tuners:

Newer flush mount:



Original that extends beyond muzzle:

I got a really weird result yesterday, and I thougfht I will see if I can duplicate it today.

And sure enough, I got the exact same results!

The first group I fired from a cold barrel, was so bad as to defy any reason. I After I finished the ten shots, I fired another group without touching anything, and it was normal.

I stopped shooting, and thought I will see what happens this morning.

Sure enough, the first group was terrible, and second one was normal!!??

I will leave the rifle to cool again for a couple of hours, and see what happens next.

I have never experienced this sort of thing before.

All the following groups are 10 shots.

Cold barrel - 2.566"
After 10 shots - 0.826"

Following day.

Cold barrel - 2.075"
Following 10 shots - 0.607"

Following day.

Cold barrel - 2.223"
Following 10 shots - 0.868"

Saeed, does it do this without the tuner? I am wondering if it has to settle in, so to speak.
Peter.

Change of plans gentlemen.

This rifle needs bedding, so I have removed the tuner and installed it on an Anschutz Model 1808 MS Match rifle, which we had changed the stock to a sporter style.

Finished our test with the Lapua Standard Club ammo.

We got some unexplained flyers, but I have left them in the groups, so readers can see how inconsistencies occur with 22 rim fire ammo.

I screwed the tuner all the way in. That is the first group. Then I unscrewed it one full turn, shot another group and so on. Until there was no more adjustments to be made.

All groups are 10-shots at 50 yards off the bench.

1. 1.194
2. 0.497
3. 0.727
4. 0.821
5. 0.886
6. 0.673
7. 0.781
8. 0.846
9. 0.914
10. 0.977
11. 0.510
12. 0.632
13. 0.971
14. 0.712
15. 1.663
16. 0.554
17. 0.717
18. 1.403
19. 0.961
20. 0.662
21. 0.689
22. 1.065
23. 0.642
24. 2.079
25. 0.752
26. 0.860
27. 0.530


Next I am going to run the same proceedure with Eley Sport ammo.

one group at each setting means little.

While I don't agree fully with SR, given the variation in groups, I would think that multiple groups with the same setting would give one an idea of the ammo/rifle variation so that you could see whether the tuner provided statistically significant differences.
Just my 2 cents, Peter.

Gentlemen,

My intention is to run the same test with several ammo types.

This should show if there is any benefit to having a tuner or not.

I thought using different types of ammo, is better than shooting several groups with just one type.

I have already started shooting the Eley Sport. I will post my results when finished.

Saeed as you may have noticed, I am pretty good about suggesting what others should do! However, I am VERY interested in your results. I have an Anschutz 64 MS and an Anschutz sporter, both of which are quite accurate (but not in the same class as yours). I have been through the gamut of tricks, including segregating ammo using the 22LR headspace gauge that was supposed to put regular 22LR in the same league as Eley match etc. etc. None of 'em worked!
Peter.

Peter,

Like yourself, I have tried many tricks said to work for the 22 rim fire. But so far have found none that actually works.

I lmost know this tuner is not going to give us any sort of magic answer. But, I enjoy shooting, and this gives me an opportunity to have a break from shooting some of the larger caliber.

A few years ago, my friend Dwight Scott came over for a visit. Dwight is a champion bench rest shooter, and when it comes to shooting off the bench, he puts all in the shade.

I asked him to try to see if he can find what makes 22 rim fire tick.

He spent a few days here in our shooting range doing all sorts of trick.

Again, none of them seemed to work.

Personally, I think it all has to do with the inconsistency of the ammo.

I will shoot more types of ammo, and post the results.

Here is the results of the Eley Sport ammo.

10-groups at 50 yards, change the setting by one full turn between each group.

1. 0.538
2. 0.529
3. 0.388
4. 0.419
5. 0.598
6. 0.572
7. 0.615
8. 0.683
9. 0.662
10. 0.482
11. 0.847
12. 0.667
13. 0.744
14. 0.577
15. 0.671
16. 0.714
17. 0.639
18. 0.782
19. 0.459
20. 0.794
21. 0.560
22. 0.460
23. 0.496
24. 0.551
25. 0.762
26. 0.467
27. 0.569

I am going to shoot some groups without the tuner, and see what happens.

For a comparison, I have fired 10, 10-shot groups without the tuner.

The groups look better, but I have not brought them back from the range. Got called up for dinner!

Having a range in the basement has its advantages!

A range in the basement and plenty of 22RF ammo does carry over into field shooting abilities with larger bores, no doubt, I don't care what any of the naysayers nay say.

The following are 10-shot groups with Eley Sport without the barrel tuner.

1. 0.486
2. 0.490
3. 0.376
4. 0.437
5. 0.281
6. 0.441
7. 1.047
8. 0.508
9. 0.637
10. 0.378

Forget the tuner, eh?
Did Walter "help" with group number 7?

Group 5 is OK. Smaller than any shot with tuner.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Forget the tuner, eh?
Did Walter "help" with group number 7?

Group 5 is OK. Smaller than any shot with tuner.

I am afraid he did not. And I am as amazed at this as you are.

I was doing the shooting. I saw the first shot go further up than the where I had expected it to - as in previous groups. I even tried to be even more careful with my shooting, but, the 22 rim fire inconsistency managed to defeat all my efforts.

It seems no matter what one does, as far as 22 rim fire accuracy shooting goes, something will happen to make you just scratch your head in amazement.

This test is seriously flawed. You should have done what the gun writers do. These were "called fliers" and therefore should be discounted from the group. THAT is how you get an accurate gun!
Peter.

Peter,

Some so called "gun-writers" can try to piull the wool over our eyes in as many ways as they wish.

I am not falling for their silly excuses.

Walter has the same opinion. He keeps telling me that I must have "flinched" when a flyer occurs!

I am going to shoot Eley TENEX next. Both with the tuner and without.

Saeed,
OK. I believe you really did all that shooting.
You did not make it all up.
I think I will have to pass on installing any barrel tuners on my 22RF.

RIP,

I have no idea how many round of 22 ammo I have fired, through so many rifle, including some extremely accurate match rifles.

And one thing always comes out very clear.

You cannot stop some bad groups getting into the pot.

Admittedly, the more expensive match ammo from Eley and Lapua are very, very good.

But, they still inclide the odd flyer or two.

Looks to me like the tuner at .781 with the Eley Tenex is the way to go!

I would like to see groups shot with the tuner moved maybe 1/4 turn on either side of the best groups. On some tuners with certain rifles the accuracy node is every turn. You may be moving from just off the node to just off the node with every full turn.
Butch

Oh, right, 1/4 turn. Sounds like a job for Walter, to pick up where Saeed has left off ...

Some comments from BR.Com. http://benchrest.com/showthrea...ing-a-tuner-and-ammo
Butch

Butch,

The tuner has 25 clicks for a full turn. And it has about 27 full turns.

Many years ago, when Browning brought out the BOSS, everyone was claiming all sorts of magic improvements it made.

Now a few years later, it seems that has died down.

If there was much benefit to tuners, I think we would have seen a lot more people using them.

May be teh 22 rim ire is the culprit here, as I have mentioned before, no matter what riofle or ammo one uses, some inconsistencies always seemt o creep in.

By the way, the targets are not standard 100 yards BR targets.

They are smaller to fit on the page as I print them.

Yesterday a gentlemen came here with his custom 300 RUM. He has a muzzle brake on it, and factory Remington ammo. It is supposed to have a match grade barrel, but the groups we got were nothing to write home about.

We might use this opportunity and work up some loads for it, and shoot it with and without the muzzle brake.

Saeed as you know Dwight worked with a crude tuner years ago and spearheaded the effort to get them legalized in short range BR. Our present World and Super Shoot Champion uses them. Probabaly only 10% of the Super Shoot contestants had them this year or 30 people. They are gaining ground.
Go to www.shadetreeea.com and you will see photos that Mustafi Bilal took of the one that I sell.
I tune my BR rifles without a tuner and then shoot 3 shot groups with different tuner settings. After finding a sweet spot I tweek it ever so slightly to find the right spot.
If you want the utmost accuracy with your rimfire and tuner, you need to add a parallel noodle to the tuner. I think you will find that at least 99% of the rimfire competitive shooters in the USA use tuners.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I would like to see groups shot with the tuner moved maybe 1/4 turn on either side of the best groups. On some tuners with certain rifles the accuracy node is every turn. You may be moving from just off the node to just off the node with every full turn.
Butch

I agree completely and was thinking about it last night.

I have a BOSS on my .223 and slight adjustments on each side of the best groups have helped. I believe the BOSS has 10 marks in a full turn and simply moving it 1 mark makes a big difference.

I think the full-turn-on-the-tuner groups are way too crude.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Some comments from BR.Com. http://benchrest.com/showthrea...ing-a-tuner-and-ammo
Butch

Funny how some "experts" always seem to know better but never step up to the plate and better the results!

If they're that better knowing why don't they do the test the correct way, in other words: "Put your money where you mouth is"

Hats off to Saeed for doing the test at his own free will and out of his own pocket!

I am going to make m ake a couple of sleeves, so that I can use the tuner on both a 223 and a 308 rifles.

Any suggestions on how to go about would be much appreciated.

Dane,
I guess that I'm confused about your post. What are you saying? I didn't see anybody critizing Saeed's post.

Saeed,
I think you will find that most, if not all, centerfire tuners are threaded to the barrel. With the recoil and muzzle blast it is very hard to keep a Hoehn or other slip fit tuner to keep from moving.
Butch

Butch,

We have slip fit muzzle brakes on some large magnums.
They never come off.

Sounds like you have it under control.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I am going to make m ake a couple of sleeves, so that I can use the tuner on both a 223 and a 308 rifles.

Any suggestions on how to go about would be much appreciated.

Very good.
Eliminate the rimfire ammo issue of the flyers, with some good, centerfire ammo.
That is a start.
Now for the 1/4 turns after a quick run through of full turns.
You are a glutton for self punishment.

No one here suggesting smaller increments for tuning is criticizing Saeed's method. I have some experience tuning a load with the BOSS I own to a 5 shot ragged hole at 100 yards. I simply followed the Browning instructions. I don't see why they wouldn't apply to any barrel tuner.

You're given recommended settings for caliber and bullet weight:

Suggested "Sweet Spots"

Then you follow the instructions on this very understandable video:



The settings are recommendations and minimal tuning on either side of them as you see will result in better accuracy.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by butchlambert:
Dane,
I guess that I'm confused about your post. What are you saying? I didn't see anybody critizing Saeed's post.

Oh and saying:

Is'nt a taunt?

If the P!$$ants can do better why dont they just do it? And proove Saeed wrong!

Mocking another's work is but pure BS!