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I've always hunted with scopes that I've never set on a higher power than 6× . Now I have a fixed 10× on my rifle and I'm having a heck of a time putting the shot together and hitting. I've screwed up several shots on stationary coyote at less than 200 yards. I guess my question is, 1, does this make sense to anyone? 2, has anyone else experienced something similar? 3, do I just need more practice with this power and scope. . From a bench, using a folded up parka as a rest I print sub half inch groups with this rifle/scope and load. So I know it isn't the rifle. I just seem to be screwing up putting the shot together and rushing things. ??? Any ideas? Thanks in advance! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | ||
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| one of us |
10X provides a narrow field of view. If you're stuck on that scope.....you need to practice ALOT. If you're not stuck on that scope....I suggest a decent variable power that offers 10X when you need it. | |||
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One of Us |
Shooting off a bench at range and shooting in a field position at animals will be totally different with a higher powered scope. Off bench you will be more staple unless your shooting with bypod in a prone position. My opinion is you need a variable scope (like a 2.5-8x or 2.5-10 or 12x) that you can get more field of view. Also concentrate more on your reticle of your scope more on the animal. | |||
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| One of Us |
When I was younger (now 62 Y.O.) I hunted large game with a fixed 6X but now that my eyes are getting some age I need more magnification. I would recommend you use what works for you. It is true that a higher mag scope lens needs the rifle to be steadier because the sight picture wobble is exaggerated (if that is a correct term for this phenomenon). Dennis Life member NRA | |||
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Thank you guys. . I plan to go to a 3-9 variable but at the moment I kinda got what I got. All of my shots have been impromptu and I wasn't all that stable, but I still feel I should have been able to make the shot. I'm still trying to come up with the right multi height rest. I don't have many places where I can shoot prone. And many places standing is the only way I can get over the brush. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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| one of us |
high magnification scopes are great for checking your pulse. Dave | |||
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| One of Us |
You provided your own answer in number 3--You need more practice. 10X is not excessive for coyotes at 100-300 yards. I have always preferred higher power scopes (up to 20X). I never could see how 4-6X was adequate for most of the hunting I did. Maybe OK for shots at 50-75 yards in heavy timber. But for 100 yards or more, give me at least 8X. | |||
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One of Us |
Personally, I use variables from 2x-3.5x to 7x-10x. I have a specific "system" - offhand I use the lowest setting available but then I don't shoot more than 100 yards off hand. Standing off sticks, sitting or kneeling - 4x-6x Prone - 7x-9x I won't even us 10x under prone field conditions. You see every tiny wobble and that impacts your confidence in the shot. Just my system, not necessarily right for everybody else. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| One of Us |
I usually try to mount my scopes low as close to the receiver as possible. That said I have found I can more quickly use a higher magnification scope if it is sitting a little higher. If you have a higher set of rings, give it a try and see if that helps. | |||
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For steadier shooting from the standing position try some shooting sticks. They are sold commercially, I think Bog Pod is one brand, or you could use some home made sticks. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Good points thank you. I have high rings on the rifle. I've spent all summer working on loads and getting the best longer distance accuracy that I could. But I neglected my off hand and other field position shooting. . I've got a few boxes of bullets that I'm not really wanting to use for hunting that I'll load up for field position practice. Time to buy a couple more bags of balloons too. I find they make for good target practice. And I do want to get the 3-9 or fixed 6× scope on this rifle for hunting. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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CTF, you should learn how to use a sling for off-hand rifle shooting, if you don't already. I use either a narrow nylon or leather sling on my rifles and wrap up in them so that the rifle can be held steady and have made shots at 500+ yds on running deer. I could not have made these shots without using the sling in this fashion. Dennis Life member NRA | |||
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I've been thinking about a type of Ching sling. I found that it's fairly easy yo do a good shooting sling using both front sling studs on the foreend of a Tac stock . It works good. But I need to build another sling. The carry strap I use is great for packin my rifle but a bit too big for shooting from quick field positions. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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More luck than skill and it raises ethical questions about wounding. My personal belief--no one should fire at deer running at 500+ yards. The odds of missing or wounding are far higher than of making killing hits. | |||
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| one of us |
I agree. the only time long shots should be taken at moving game is if the animal is already wounded. Nobody is out there making consistant hits on running deer at 500 yards. I know a guy who likes to brag about head shooting speedgoats at 500 yards, he got lucky and wacked one in the melon at 300 yards one time, hardly a repeatable event! | |||
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| one of us |
Keep both peepers open if u don't already. No need to close off eye and it really helps you see your way onto target. Way better way to go when shooting scoped rifles. | |||
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| One of Us |
I've never been able to pull that off. My brain gets discombobulated. I can practice it tho. I've got some blasting ammo loaded up. Just need to get to the range. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I've always preferred 2X7 scopes. I leave mine at 2x unless I have a long shot (and time to turn the power ring). This gives me a very wide field of view, and quick target acquisition. Also, I like my scopes mounted as low as possible. This way, with my cheek on the stock, I am looking directly through the scope. | |||
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Yes, I usually do also. But since I'm using a fixed 10× I'm limited. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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| One of Us |
My favorite, do-all hunting scope is a Leupold VXII 2-7x32. I have this scope on 3 different rifles including a 358 Win and a 9.3x62. It also works equally well on my 30-30 and 25-06 Rem. Another favorite is an inexpensive Redfield Revenge 3-9x42 Accu-Ranger scope (now discontinued, but still available). It is a great little scope for the money and also works well on my 25-06 along with my 300 Win Mag. I can't decide on which rifle to leave it on, so I may need to buy another. Since my rifle/scope combos are used for hunting, I don't require competition-grade equipment. Start young, hunt hard, and enjoy God's bounty. | |||
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I've been doing a lot more field position shooting lately and am getting back in the sight picture/ trigger squeeze timing on this rifle. . Making nice little ragged 1 hole groups from the bench is nice. But kinda useless unless that accuracy can be carried over to game shooting. Unless your a bench rest shooter that is. My rifle was bought for hunting so that's what I'm concerned with. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Everyone is different. I took an elk at 500 plus yards with my Redfield 3x-9x at 3x. I typically only use the higher power for load development and prairie dogs. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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+1
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Some of my favorite scopes have been the 2.5 , 3 and 4 power Leupold fixed power scopes. Tho I ve always been a better than average shot. On game I haven't been that great a target shot. This past summer I have worked on that. I've seen where Saeed stated he keeps the scope on his 375/404 cranked up to 9× iirc when hunting. I know a few other guys that keep their 3-9s on 9× . I figured this fixed 10× would give me a reason to figure out what they know. I haven't figured it out yet but my field position shooting is improving now that I'm staying away from the bench. I was really happy my last trip to the range. My shooting stick seated shooting and offhand shooting has really improved. I am looking at several other scopes online now tho. Mostly 1-4× Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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| One of Us |
Oh, and I am focusing on my reticle before loosing the shot. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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| One of Us |
Been researching variables and I've come up with several that are looking like what I'm after. The Vortex 2.5-10×32 FFP mrad PST and the 1-4×24 mrad PST. I really like the reticle on the 1-4 and wish they offered it on the 2.5-10 . But otherwise the Vortex PST checks all the right boxes. Does anyone have any experience with these, is the eye relief critical?? Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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One of Us |
"Project Appleseed" is a great two days to learn how to shoot with a sling. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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BINGO!! The magnification will enhance any "hold" flaws you have going on. Like the difference in using 8x bino's and 10x bino's. It's a lot harder to get a steady view with the 10x. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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| One of Us |
For every 25 yards you need a power: 50 yards is 2X; 150 yds is 6x, etc. Nothing wrong with practice, but field of view is critical. | |||
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One of Us |
If you can use 6X effectively then you can use 10X effectively. I wonder if the problem is with the scope or the mounting. Have you checked to make sure that nothing is loose? Personally, my favorite rifle has a fixed 10X scope on it and I find it great for anything beyond 100 yards or so. It's more power than I need for 100-200 yards but for target shooting I can use it at those distances and see the .30 caliber holes. For hunting, you don't always know if you will have a 200 yard shot or a 300 yard shot or further. If the terrain is such that I know my shot will/must be 100 yards or under I'll remove the scope before hunting. The iron sights are fine for 100 yards. I have and use scopes of other powers but my favorites remain 6X and 10X fixed. With variables I find I either go lowest power or highest power. FWIW. I recently mounted a 1X-5X on a carbine. I was looking through it on 1X today. I must say I was very surprised at how much clearer things looked at 1X through the scope than they did at 1X through my eyes. I'll probably just keep it at 1X. Again, I wonder if your problem is in the scope, the mounts, or rings. . | |||
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| One of Us |
Dont overlook dry fire practice. It will improve your technique and confidence and lets you see if you have any bad trigger habits developing. | |||
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| One of Us |
I've gone the opposite direction. I used a 3-9x for everything North American (javelin to grizzlies for a long time). I've changed to a 2x-7x Leupold about 15 years ago, and now hunt mainly with a Leupold 1.5-5x scope. If I'm sitting over looking an elk meadow with shots out to 400 yards, I'll put it on 4x. ordinarily I keep it on 1.5x. The only reason I like higher power at times is when I'm doing load development and shooting for groups. To each his own. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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The scope is good as are the rings. Leupold high 30 mm rings. SWFA 10×42SS scope. Adjustable cheek piece. I think it was lack of field position target practice as I'm getting better off the sticks. I do wish SWFA would have sent the scope I ordered which was the 6×42 MD SS. But I don't regret the fixed 10× . I just need another scope. When I go hunting I don't know if the shot will be 20'or 400 yards and either is a possibility. Tho as in most hunting up here there are far more shot opportunities at under 100 yards than over 200. So even tho the rifle in question is an accurate 6.5 Creedmoor. Ruger Hawkeye that I shortened the barrel to 18.6" and I have a Boyd's Tacticool laminate stock on it. It is still something of a carbine. Just a nice heavy carbine. As my winter rifle I use it for calling predators and caribou hunting. I'm thinking I will try the 1-4×24 Vortex Viper PST mrad scope on it. On 4× that scope has a better twilight factor than the 10×42. Not as good as the 6×42 but with the illuminated reticle and the center dot and 4" of eye relief. I think it will work out well for all but Long Range shooting. And if I like it I will put one on several other rifles. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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| One of Us |
Thank you for all the replies and insights. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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| One of Us |
For me, on higher magnification, without a rest, I tend to rush the shot (poor trigger control) because the target appears to wobble more. It doesn't wobble more on higher power but it looks like it does so I rush things. Most guy I know have encountered similar experiences with off-hand shooting with higher magnifications. The only cure is more practice.... or change scopes. Zeke | |||
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| One of Us |
That sounds exactly what I was doing. I do need to.do more offhand practice but with the sticks I'm getting my trigger control down. . Thanks! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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| Administrator |
I use a Leupold 2.5-8 on my main African hunting rifle. It is a 375/404, and I have been using it every year since 1995. I use one bullet weight - 300 grains - and I use it for everything. From the little klipspringer all the way to elephants. I have shot animals with from a few yards, to almost 500 yards. I follow a simple routine. The scope is set on its lowest setting all the time, and I wind it up as required as soon as I know what I am shooting at. Generally shooting off any rest, I use it at 8x. Regarding shooting off hand. First thing is have your trigger adjusted to be light and crisp. Nothing kills an off hand shot like a bad trigger. Mine is set at about 2 pounds. Some people seem to think this is too light for this caliber. But, those who use it love it. | |||
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| One of Us |
On my 6.5 , the main rifle I'm shooting now. The trigger is 22-28 oz. And its sweet. . I should have spent part of this past summer practicing from field positions. Rushing my shot accounted for my misses so far. Getting used to the higher power scope didn't help. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Great advice Saeed, all of my triggers are set to less than 3 lbs, even my 500 Jeffery. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I just got back from shooting. Sitting in the snow using my knee for a rest. . The sun was gone and its solid overcast so the black lettering on the brown cardboard box was getting dim in the scope. I ended up with 2 groups. 4 shots then 3 shots. Even my called flyer would have wacked a coyote in the lungs and I had a couple shots in both groups 3/4" apart. So, I'm happy my shooting from positions is improving. It took concentration to distinguish the cross hairs. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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