What kind of rifle would you use for a brown bear charge?

my thoughts is that
A double rifle would maybe be good for close range.. but then you dont have the same power as you would get from a .600 OK bolt action rifle. And you have 3 shoots from a .600 bolt action and only 2 in a DR.
I think I would go with the most powerfull bolt action that I could afford!

What would you use?
//OK

I would use whatever I had on hand, even if it were a .22 LR.

But, if I had the luxury of knowing that there was charge coming and I had the time to pick and choose my firearm, I would use my .375 H&H.

While in Grizzly/Brown Bear country, I've carried .300 WinMags,.338 WinMags, .45-70s, and .375 H&Hs, and felt secure about it.

Namibiahunter

If I got to choose it would be my 458 Lott with my 375 H&H a close second. I would even be pretty confident in my 9.3x62.

When hunting in Alaska a brown bear charge might come up on just about any hunt you happen to be doing.I know there are lots of exceptions, but my point is to be ready. The rifle you choose for your sheep hunt may have to be the one to use on a charge.It is probably best to pick your rifle up here based on intended use, not the exceptional charge.Sometimes it comes down to the calmness of the hunter,not the caliber.When hunting big bear step up the caliber/power level,and choose a non fragmenting projectile usually heavy for caliber.

...........There is a potential for situations where things may not work out even for a 458 Lott or 460 Whby ...........But when that happens ,,Well Thats it .....,.,.,., Brown bears are successful hunters ......And if a bear really wants to kill you it can and might .....................Bears that charge from a distance in open country usually can be stopped by a good brain shot from an 06 .......But if you have no idea the bear is there and the charge starts from 5 yards ,.,.,. ...............The ultimate would be that new 458 Garand ...........As long as it is totally reliable and has at least a 5 round magazine .....Loaded with 300-400 gr monometel expanding ,,or the 400 gr.Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet ,,., In fact for a factory load Federal Ammo, that is pretty much the best there is ....... ........A 450 Alaskan in a model 71 that functions perfectly is right near the top of the list ............Say you get charge by a 900 lb sow with 2,, 350 lb 2 year old cubs .......or you bump into 2 boars fighting over a sow ..............or you can hear them coming but you can,t see them because the brush is too thick ...it is nice to have lots of bullets available..........Probably next to the Garand i,, I would say a 500 Nitro single trigger Ejector Double Barrel Rifle regulated for a 400 gr mono metal bullet at more than 2400 fps...........................However ,,,411-458 cal rifles pushing 300 -500 grain bullets which are producing 4500-6000 ,,plus.ft lbs of muzzel energy always work excellently to my knowledge ........

quote:

Originally posted by longshots:
When hunting in Alaska a brown bear charge might come up on just about any hunt you happen to be doing.I know there are lots of exceptions, but my point is to be ready. The rifle you choose for your sheep hunt may have to be the one to use on a charge.It is probably best to pick your rifle up here based on intended use, not the exceptional charge.Sometimes it comes down to the calmness of the hunter,not the caliber.When hunting big bear step up the caliber/power level,and choose a non fragmenting projectile usually heavy for caliber.

......... ................................................... ....I would say between disagree and TOTALLY DISAGREE....with the heavy for caliber stuff ................ .............Say you want to call in foxes and use a 17 HRM to shoot them as it is good on the pelts ....Bears come into predator calls and they come in to kill and eat ........You can be as calm as you want but if you didn,t bring a pretty Skookum pistol with you that you can get at in a hurry , you might be in big trouble ..........Or almost as bad you might wound the bear and off it goes .,.,., and becomes a big problem for other people .........That is a big reason the 338 is very popular in Alaska ....Hits hard , pretty flat shooting ,,,easy on the recoil .,., Genrally much more reliable at a quick kill on brown bear as opposed to the 30 cal.s ....And a 375 with 250-270 gr bullets will work as well on all big game as any load you can put in it ..............The heavy for caliber bullets work ok at the closer ranges but really limit the general hunting ability of a medium bore rifle ..........If a person just wants to play at hunting with lots of different guns , then ,,,what ever ,,, But in my experience a medium to large bore rifle with a medium to light weight bullet will produce the best results over the long haul ..For hunting and if you need to deal with a bear you won,t be at a disadvantage ...Heavy for caliber loads can create alot of problems in the feed and function of your rifle ...................

Sorry I didn't mean to imply a .17 or a .22 would be a good choice.I have hunted and killed bears with .308s,30-06s, .338s, .375s, .416s,45-70s,.458s.Pick a rifle in the class you feel most comfortable with for the job at hand. I don't hunt sheep with my .458,even though a bear charge is possible.If you have to have one rifle a .338 WM is not bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
What kind of rifle would you use for a brown bear charge?
What would you use?
//OK

I think it was Craig Boddington who said "the best rifle to have in the case of a charge is the one your carrying".

Not to hijack this thread, but to all of you who hunt and live in Brown bear country how often do rogue bears REALLY charge hunters?

Im not talking about wounded bears either!

It seems that every thread on Alaska hunting gets sidetracked by this topic.

Thanks, KC

Actually a .22 is great, shoot your partner in the leg, you only have to run faster than him

Seriously, no such thing as a perfect caliber for a charge, bigger the better I will agree with but whos gonna go predator hunting with a 460wby? Whatever you have in your hands is what you have to use, better be good with it.

When I hike, I usually have either my 45/70, or my 416rem and when my 9.3x62 is finished that will probably be my primary hiking rifle. When I hunt, its usually a 30-06.

KC, its rare but it does happen. Its not enough of a regularity for me to be carrying a 12lb bigbore all the time.

A lever action 50 Alaskan, 450 Marlin, 45-70 type rifle or a semi-auto in 50 Beowulf, 9.3x62 (Benelli), or 375 Whelan in a Garand.

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
What kind of rifle would you use for a brown bear charge?

my thoughts is that
A double rifle would maybe be good for close range.. but then you dont have the same power as you would get from a .600 OK bolt action rifle. And you have 3 shoots from a .600 bolt action and only 2 in a DR.
I think I would go with the most powerfull bolt action that I could afford!

What would you use?
//OK

A Mossberg M131F 15 shot semi-auto 22lr it just dont get any better than that!!

sumbuddy who no!

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
What kind of rifle would you use for a brown bear charge?
...

I have a 450 Marlin with a 1.5 to 6 x 42 scope; tough to beat a lever action for fire power in a big bore.

quote:

Originally posted by Joel/AK:
KC, its rare but it does happen. Its not enough of a regularity for me to be carrying a 12lb bigbore all the time.

DITTO here!

I don't live in Alaska - So, If I were hunting Alaska it would probably be with a guide or PH and would expect him to have the stopper.

I would, however, prepare some reloads for whatever rifle I carried to have as much of a "stopper" round as possible.

Most probably I would choose to hunt with my 9.3x62. But....the example of the long shot sheep hunt would exclude me choosing that rifle. Guess I'd pick my 270 and have some 160 NPTs loaded just in case.

Now for non-hunting situations, think I'd pick my 870 turkey gun to carry loaded with premium slugs.

My 2¢

quote:

Originally posted by KC Carlin:

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
What kind of rifle would you use for a brown bear charge?
What would you use?
//OK

I think it was Craig Boddington who said "the best rifle to have in the case of a charge is the one your carrying".

Not to hijack this thread, but to all of you who hunt and live in Brown bear country how often do rogue bears REALLY charge hunters?

Im not talking about wounded bears either!

It seems that every thread on Alaska hunting gets sidetracked by this topic.

Thanks, KC

..........................................................................................It kind of gets blown out of proportion because there are so many variables involved with brown bears ,,being outdoors in Alaska ........And all the conditions involved in encountering them ............................If you haven,t spent alot of time in the great outdoors with animals who don,t necessarily think you are something to be feared ,,its hard to take the time to describe what its like , only to be called a liar by someone who will never even remotely be in the area let alone in the situations that caused a mauling or death ........Off the top of my head I know 8 people who have been bit,,, clawed or seriously mauled by brown bear ............And I know of at least 10 more , and thats just on the A.B.C. Islands .................I don,t think Rouge is the right term for bears that maul and kill ,,,,,,,,,It,s a case of , they had the ability to do it , no one stopped them from doing it ,,so the bears did the mauling and eating ect ....................How many people do I know who have had to kill chargeing brown bears ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Dozens ........the bear chose to do something but wasn,t allowed to ............You just have no idea how many of these things live here .......Ya know the saying about Cape Buffalo [ they look at you like you owe them money ] Brown bear will look at you and think about what they want to do with you .........If you are not well armed they have all the abilities ,,you have NONE ............

quote:

Not to hijack this thread, but to all of you who hunt and live in Brown bear country how often do rogue bears REALLY charge hunters?

In my humble experience cause I don't want to get off as an "expert" can say it has happened more than enough. Many times you don't just read about it. In bush Alaska there is more bear encounters than what is known here in the forums. Rogue? not sure what that really means-possessed?

I have been charged a few times and have killed them outright whether they were rogue and/or just bluffing-was not going to let them get close and then make the assumption that this is real. Camps tore up, meat ruined, being hunted or constantly surveyed in and around camp. Are they territorial? Yes! Do they hunt you-yes! Always - no.

Question was what would you use? That rifle which is capable of penetrating and killing with sufficient energy. That could very well be the lowly .30-30 Winchester to say the least.

I have raised my children to carry and shoot well a rifle in which is capable of killing outright or able to turn them with the impact and with a follow up to kill them.

That rifle in particular is the .338 Win Mag and a 250 grain Partition. Any Medium bore with a good bullet that can exit and leave a good blood trail at the least.

I am not a guide but a hunter born and raised from the Koyukon River Country to the Chandalar River country-essentially the "foothills of the Brooks Range".

regards,

quote:

Originally posted by RaySendero:

quote:

Originally posted by Joel/AK:
KC, its rare but it does happen. Its not enough of a regularity for me to be carrying a 12lb bigbore all the time.

DITTO here!

I don't live in Alaska - So, If I were hunting Alaska it would probably be with a guide or PH and would expect him to have the stopper.

I would, however, prepare some reloads for whatever rifle I carried to have as much of a "stopper" round as possible.

Most probably I would choose to hunt with my 9.3x62. But....the example of the long shot sheep hunt would exclude me choosing that rifle.

My 2¢

.........................If you had a 230 GSC HV ,,250 gr TSX 250 AccuBond load @ 2600 fps or better you would have a fine sheep / goat /deer rifle that also wasn,t too bad for bear ............Alot better than any 270 .....or shotgun ......A large caliber revolver with non expanding or deforming heavy bullets ......generally will work to keep the bears off .....but usually by the time you need the pistol ....you ,,REALLY NEED TO USE IT WELL ....

I consider the 30-06 a minimum brown bear rifle and it certainly is usable contrary to popular belief...

If I knew a bear was going to charge then I would pick a .416 Rem or something like that, if I had to handle a charge with a 06 and 200 or 220 gr. bullets then I would kill the bear wih the 06......

1. What ever I have at the time.
2. I don't carry little guns.
3. Shoot center of mass.
4. DO NOT try and shoot one in the head. They don't run with their head held still.
4. Don't stop shooting until he stops breathing.
5. Always use premium bullets that will stay together under stress, bonded, Nosler, monometal. Premium bullets just may be the best bargain out there for saving an expensive hunt or your butt if things go bad.
If you carry a pistol, consider a lanyard in case you get separated from it in. Many years ago a bear attack survivor when asked why he didn't shoot the bear with the pistol, which was still in his holster after the attack, "I was too busy covering up".

I'd use my Marlin XLR 45-70 shooting 420 grain Garrett Hammerheads and if that didn't stop him, i'd pull out the 44 mag and shoot myself!!

I agree with Ray that the .30Gov't06 is the minimum for big bear. On a charge I wouldn't feel to bad if I had my Pre'64 M/70 .30'06 Featherwieght with me. I however would feel alittle better with my Standard Grade .375 H&H Mag. Model 70!

A .416 Remington loaded with 370 grain North Forks at 2450 fps. Good shooting.

Not that I have any great wisdom on this subject, but I would want a double in 470. First a soft, second barrel a solid. Just seems right somehow.

to answer your post i have had 3 458 win mags made. 2 of them are on stainless ruger actions and 1 on a stainless winny. barrel cut at 21 inches with a peep. for ME this is my ideal bear charge rifle short and light and weatherproof.. just my 2 cents

I've shot a 300 Win. Mag with 200 gr. NP for years. The only time I've shot a bear coming at me was with this set up. He dropped with a head shot, the bullet lodge in hump. The two rifles I hunt with up here the most are the 300 WM and a 375 H&H. I'd perfer the H&H in a charge but I'd still get the job done with the 300. I also have 45-70, 458 WM, 416 Rigby, and 470 NE, but the 375 H&H would be my choice.
Last year, in the paper, a guy driving up I believe the Elliot stopped for a nature call and before he finish a bear came at him. With almost no time to react he pulled out a 454 Casull and killed the bear with one shot.

.........One thing about this thread , it seems to be stirring alot of interest as there seem to be quite a few new members posting here .....Thats great ....Welcome Alaska Hunter ......Why would you choose a 375 if you HAD to stop a bear when you have a 416 , 458 and a 470 ,.,.??? ..

the biggest i could carry and fire with ease, 12 gauge paradox sounds good 7-9 drams bp load or the smokeless substitute should do it.

peter

gumboot458 - Thanks for the welcome. My reason for using the 375 H&H over the "Big Stoppers" is that I'm totally comfortable with it. I've carried it so often that it feel's as if it's a natural part of my body. When things happen quickly, reaction is what determines the outcome. The difference between gettng a well place shot off versus a miss is the biggest part of stopping a charge.
I believe a gun of 30 cal. on up that you are most comfortable with is the one to take into a bear fight.

The one I had in my hand at the time.

"The one I had in my hand at the time" is the only answer. That is based on the hunt I would be on such as sheep or bou most likely a 30 caliber something. A heavier critter obviously a larger rifle such as maybe 338 or so for moose cause I hear they can be kind of mean. For the great bears as a primary hunt then maybe the 375 H&H or one of the .416's because these rifles can not only reach out there a ways, but have plenty knockdown far and close. Back at camp my 4" .500 S&W in the tent for anything that decides to want to munch on me at night. R.

Maybe a Panzerfaust? But maybe then again a good old .405 Winchester.

"The one I had in my hand"???????????If I was hunting brown bear I would know prior the the hunt which one I would have in my hand!

However, I agree that I would be content with about any decent rifle that I could shoot well, from a 30-06 on up..but would opt for a 9.3x62 or larger in all probability, but I am not into bigger is better, prefering a properly constructed bullet in the right spot regardless of the caliber be it an 06 or my .416....

This string seems to assume that you can anticipate the charge of a bear and get off a well aimed shot. I don't think I actually know anyone who was charged by a bear that they were hunting. The ones I know about were deer hunting or hiking and the bear was so close and coming so fast that they either were shooting from the hip, so to speak, or didn't get a shot off at all before the bear was on them. The deer in SE AK are not very big and a .223 or 243 will kill them nicely. The problem is the little deer live where the big bears also live and so a lot of deer are shot with magnum class rifles. 7mm-375 covers most of the usage for deer here. There are lots of 06's used but my 375/06 will drive a 300gr bullet deeper in a bear if need be. It makes no difference to the deer if it's shot in the head with a 223 or a 375. It might make a lot of difference to a bear. For many years I have been asked what is the best handgun to use for bear protection. My answer has always been the very largest that you can shoot accurately as least twice in a row. For some that stops at a 357 for others a 500. I think that the hunting terrain in SE AK where a 50 yd shot is typical unless hunting above timberline or on a beach suggest that the same approach is used hunting with a rifle. If you're afraid of it, it's too big to shoot. When you're deer hunting and a bear shows up, your deer rifle just became your bear rifle.
Just a bit of trivia for those that don't think a 12 ga is appropriate for bear defense. Many years ago a couple of police officers came in looking for slugs to dispatch a couple of brown bears that were causing trouble in their town. They had selected the typical 12ga foster style slugs for the purpose. I suggested that they use the BRI sabot style instead. Their response was they didn't want to use them on the bears in town because the BRI's shot completely through the bears!

AkHunter;;;you are absolutely right about reflexive movement made possible by total familiarity...that factor alone can save your life even with a 300WM...but with the 375 you have better odds indeed...agree completely...so many armchair hunters in the lower 48 have never lived in AK and seen these bears up close and personal...when they do...watch them change their minds about 375s and 416s...quickly....

Agree; the one you are absolutely familiar with; practice recycling bolt at the 50 yard line & see where your 2nd shot hits; do it over & over again. Use a 1 1/2-4 or 5x scope & walk/stalk with it set at 1 1/2x. I have heard it said that brownies can cover 40 foot a second. The two I shot were at 45 and 15 yards. Both ran off the "beach" & into the brush, neither traveling more than 50 yards before falling dead; very glad their chosen path wasn't directly at me!

i'd use my 458 win,just because i dont have a 459 win !

the one you feel most comfortable with above 30 cal.

Kind of a difficult question to answer since anyone who hunts for big bears doesnt want to face off a charge or purposely look for one.
That being said if I am in bear country I carry what is suitable for the game at hand and is a good compromise if I have bear problems.
For example, when I go deer hunting on Kodiak I usually carry a 338 WM but plan on switching to a 35 Whelen for next year.
If we shoot a moose and are in good bear country then I would carry the largest rifle in camp when we are butchering the animal and carrying the meat out.
Now if I just wanted perfect bear protection and I was not hunting I would think a stainless short barreled 458 WM would be about perfect.

An associate of mine who is a frequent fly fisher carries a hand grenade to deal with bulls he encounters. Like me he has had one too many close shaves to want to continue relying on luck.

I know it is a bit off topic but thought it might give you a laugh. Of course, as you can imagine, hand grenades are not exactly legal. In fact to get an air rifle in this country we have to put up with 7 months paper work and even that depends on you getting private landowners to sign papers saying you can shoot over their land etc. So, a hand grenade really is something quite exceptional. Needless to say he is not legally in possession of the device.

While I've no experience with bears, though they always look a bit smaller than bulls but with more teeth, I imagine that the hand grenade approach might have a lot to recommend it. Exteme accuracy in a tight spot is not a requirement and even a near miss might be enough to discourage an attack. On the downside deployment at close range has significant drawbacks.

This is not an April Fool by the way, I also fish a lot and bulls are a serious problem in this area. I have had some very close shaves indeed and have got to the stage that I will go home before enter somewhere with a bull. I figure you only have so much luck and suspect I've used mine. A hand grenade was not a route that occured to me and both availability and legality are points against it but on the other hand it does seem like a reasonable solution to the problem.

Reliability would be more important to me than caliber.

I would prize most a light quick pointing all weather rifle that would without a doubt extract the first case and load the second.

If I could do that with a 458 Lott that would be my choice. But if I had to pack around a heavy rifle for a week just in case something charged I would not do it.

I would, have and will in the future stick to my short barreled, mod 70, all weather 375 for all the reasons above despite the fact that a 458 Lott sits in the safe ready for anything.