Anybody see the video of a guy shooting a cow moose with his pistol after he was attacked by the moose ? Was he in his right to shoot the moose or could he have done something different on the trail ?

I saw an old guy get trampled by a cow moose years back. No happy ending. Have,nt seen the video, but if you,re about to get trampled, and you have a chance to shoot the critter instead of being it,s dance partner, my opinion, shoot the critter.

And no, I do not give a shit whether you are within your rights, or whether or not it is "legal" at that point.

When we lived in the MatSu, I ran dogteam on trails behind the house. Was common to see 30 cows with calves in short 20 mile run. MOst weren't bothered much by dogteam, but there were certain cows, always pissy. They'd come jumpin out towards trail, ears back, hair up. They'd get about 15 yards from me as I was going past them and I'd start hollaring , waving my arms. Cow would freeze on the spot, then run back to calf. Happened a hundred times over the years. Never had dogs stomped. Once had moose come running down trail towards me, maybe 50yards away. I pulled out 44 and fired round into air, moose directly jumped off trail and kept going. I honestly think some cows like acting big & bad & tough, but freeze up when you start waving arms & swearing at them.

Have ya ever cut a snare off a moose with side winders? They actually growl at ya, before they try using their fronts.

MOst dog people wouldn't ever shoot a moose unless their dogs were getting stomped.

Not enough info

Do you have a link to the video

I think that moose would have got it from me the first time it attacked. I'm amazed that it would have a go at a machine and rider like that. The rider was even standing up which would have made his profile even larger.

On another forum a lot of guys felt it was unnecessary force. Maybe they are part of the school of thought that says if you are attacked by a dope-head with a pen knife and you have a .45 in your hand, you can only defend yourself with a similar threat level.

I belong to another school. Infringe on my safety and prepare to get dealt with!
JCHB

It looks like he rolled forward on the moose at least once, thus further pushing her.

I suspect the rider had little choice. I gather from the video that there was a fellow rider with him and possibly had already passed by the moose? Who knows.

JCHB, unlike deer in America or impala down your way, moose are few and far between per square mile in the north. We'd rather not needlessly kill one if we can help it. In most cases its worth it to us to back out, go around, wait an hour or more for the moose to give way on its own rather than shoot. These are unique, rare and beautiful creatures, just whacking one for the sake of it isn't cool.

Another good example of why one should always be armed while in the woods or wilds.

I have to agree with Scott.
Just because you have a destination on your snow machine doesn't mean you push thru like you were in big city traffic, this is a wild moose don't push it to a confrontation.
However once attacked I agree you should defend yourself.
My personal opinion is that I would have backed out, given the animal a bit of space and respect.

Hmmmmm! That 'bile done got a reverse gear, don't it. Looks to me like he escalated the whole event. I'da just backed up. Especially when he was 30-40 yards back from the moose. Would have been zero problem with the animal.

Dang it!

You-Tube yanked the video!

quote:

Originally posted by wingnut:
Dang it!

You-Tube yanked the video!

Other source

I watched it twice. I think it's another example of we weren't there so who knows for sure what we would have done.

I kinda think after the moose climbed the snowmobile the first time I would have been shooting. Having said that backing up a snowmobile if it has reverse often times will only get you a few feet depending on the snow conditions and who knows what that snow was like off the trail. I think his mistake was not just waiting until the moose left on its own.

A little off topic but I was surprised how quickly that Glock folded that moose.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
A little off topic but I was surprised how quickly that Glock folded that moose.

Mark

Don't know the caliber on that particular Glock but if he had FMJ rounds in there and aimed for the head it would only take one hit. The was it laid that at the end It looked potentially brained.

Looks like the first shot could very well have been a shot to try and scare it.

The Moose had every opportunity to leave and not attack.

I might have put a finisher into the brain.

If in AK Any law that says you have to report a self defense moose shooting like a bear.

I'm not a snowmobile expert, but judging by the looks of the trail as seen on the video, I know that I would have made about 5 or 10 feet backwards and that would have been it...stuck. I fully agree that waiting would have been ideal, but I think that gunning the engine a touch and consequently lurching forward a bit could reasonably be expected to convince the moose to move on. In this case it didn't work, and he had a problem. Later in the video it becomes visible that there was a second sled behind him. Who knows how close behind, and if that affected his decision? Also, a comment made on another forum indicated that the gent in question had his young son on the machine with him, changing the picture a bit.

Personally, I think he showed more restraint than I would have under the circumstances.

Trying to second guess a moose's intentions in that particular encounter wasn't an option in my opinion. I think he did all that was within reason, considering the emotional stress he was under. You can't have a neighborly discussion with a moose over territorial jurisdiction!

They react by instinct and he did too. Nothing wrong with that under the circumstances.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I carry more for moose than for bear. A buddy of mine had to shoot a cow moose with his 44 mag. He'd come around a bend in the trail and it proceeded to stomp his dog team. In the end, three or four rounds didn't knock it over and he was so close he reached over, grabbed it by the nose and stuck the barrel in its ear. That did the trick.

The guy in the video might have been able to avoid shooting it, but after the damn thing attacked him and his machine, I can't blame him for blasting it. I've run off cows with my truck, gunning the engine, and it usually works, but I really can't blame this guy. If he'd blasted it on the first charge, would anyone have second guessed him?

I have no problem with him shooting it, after it attacked.


But he provoked the whole thing, by pulling up on it.

All you Alaskans know Frank & Sue Entsminger, out past Mentasta. Frank makes those nice sheep bronzes & Sue makes all kinds of furs. Good people, Frank is involved with 40 mile caribou herd, ect. I have an old VCR tape where Frank is cutting a snare off from around this moose's neck. Frank has sidewinders in one hand and vcr cam in the other. He's telling the moose how he wants to help him out, you can see the moose's hair go up, ears go back, tightening up, and just as he cuts the snare, the moose throws his fronts to ole FRank. You can hear the moose growlin a him the whole time and Frank telling moose he wants to be friends, help him out and all. Then you hear FRank go ughh ass the fronts get him and cam goes black.

I've hand fed too many moose around the house, had them up on my porch sleeping on that green plastic grass you wipe your feet on, then I stumble over them when I go out the door. Just sat down in the woods on a log 4 foot away from moose and discussed life with them and such. I need to shoot one for my winter meat, but also do whatever I can to help them out opening up waterholes in winter to cutting birch trees for them to feed.I'd never shoot one outta fear of getting stomped. No joke, I've waved off so many over the years.

Kind of like bears 99 percent no trouble one can go most of their lives and never run into the wrong one.

Doesn't mean the next one or some one else well not run into one that needs to be defended against.

The guy will have a difficult time explaining why he shot that moose once F&G gets a hold of the video. I could be wrong, of course since I was not there, but posting that video was a big mistake.

Somebody filmed the whole event, long before the moose charged. While it's difficult to predict what anybody would do in that situation, I would just have turned the machine around, or at least stopped the machine at the fork of the trail in case there was the need for me to take a left turn (old snow machine tracks can bee seen to the left of the trail).

What happens is that it's much easier for moose and other wild animals to walk on the packed snow on the trails instead of making trails of their own through the deep snow. When encountering a moose on the trail it is best to let the animal have the trail, although there are instances when one can sort of stumble on a moose on a turn of a trail, in which case anything can happen.

But according to the video, the guy had plenty of time to either turn around, or to get off that trail. Once one steps into the animal's safe zone, anything can happen.

As I asked before if this is AK is there a requirement to report the shooting of a moose in self-defense like a bear.

Maybe he is like Zhurh wave all of the other moose off before thought he could wave this one off. Then ran into the wrong moose.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
As I asked before if this is AK is there a requirement to report the shooting of a moose in self-defense like a bear.

Maybe he is like Zhurh wave all of the other moose off before thought he could wave this one off. Then ran into the wrong moose.

Yes, in Alaska it's required to make such reports.

P dog shooter, I just got back from taking my daily ride out my woodlot trail. Momma moose was cleaning up birch tops from a couple days back. Chatted with her sittin on the skandic, then dropped a couple more birch. By the time I had my sled loaded up, momma moose was walking up to get at the new tops I just dropped.

NO joke, moose ain't nowhere near as dangerous as some think; most Alaskans know they will run at the sound of a gun, or 99 out a 100 times if ya yell & wave at them.

My biggest problem was my dogs lurchin from the trail towards the moose running towards them as I on byed my leaders. There were certain cows that would come running out towards the trail every time they saw me, I'd yell and they'd freeze solid, then run back to their calf. It was like they enjoyed the process too and never really considered stompin me.

I've actually saw moose bunch/circle up in february like bison do with calves in the center, usually wolves pestering them. you ride up to them on snowmachine giving them a hard time, now they might come after ya. Many Alaskans like to chase/herd game on snowmachines and it does piss them off. I've been with the Indians, catch wolves on fresh snow on open lake where they can't get to brush quick. It's actually easier to run them down, stun them in deep snow with snowmachine than trying to stop and shoot. Crazy thing is just as you are about to run over the wolf, they turn and try biting snowmachine cowling; crazy as all heck. Once you hit them, they are dazed easy to shoot. Anything to reduce the wolf population in Alaska.

Seriously though, I've seen thousands of moose up close, never been stomped, never felt threatened. I help the moose anyway I can and usually get one every fall for winter meat; something to the karma like the Indians say. I've seen the Indians talk away to grizzly bears too, I'm ready to start shooting and they tell me don't shoot bear, my friend. Buggers later claim bear only eat White People, ha ha.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Another good example of why one should always be armed while in the woods or wilds.

Bear Spray wouldn't have worked ?

Grizz

The closest moose I've been to was in Chugiak park 50 feet from a full grown cow moose back in 84.

She wasn't acting aggressive nor was I just watched her for a bit took a couple of pictures and we both went are ways.

I seen others in the woods. Besides hunting never thought I would have to shoot them.

But as with any wild critter there is always a chance one might.

I think the guy had time to get off his sled and move off and let the moose go by. It was a shame to kill her. The first shots looked like warning shots but maybe he was a bad shot then he just poured the lead on. I am not sure if this was in alaska or not.

What's wrong with all you guys, the moose just decided how it wanted to die

Why keep advancing on it? He wanted to shoot something and did.

I don't live in AK and don't pretend to know anything about moose behavior from multiple encounters, but that moose didn't need to be killed.

The question that can never be answered is what would the moose have done if they snowmobile had not gone forward. Would it have attacked or walked off? We will never know.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Why keep advancing on it? He wanted to shoot something and did.

That's why he yelled and took other actions to scare the moose away.

That's why he had his handgun under his coat with an empty chamber and fired a warning shot.

It was just a moose it attack and could very well have killed or injured the person that shot it.

Sorry it was a very justifiable shooting.

I am not willing to take a moose hoof to the head it could very well kill you.

Your statement is one of the most foolish ones made yet.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Why keep advancing on it? He wanted to shoot something and did.

That's why he yelled and took other actions to scare the moose away.

That's why he had his handgun under his coat with an empty chamber and fired a warning shot.

It was just a moose it attack and could very well have killed or injured the person that shot it.

Sorry it was a very justifiable shooting.

I am not willing to take a moose hoof to the head it could very well kill you.

Your statement is one of the most foolish ones made yet.

As usual you speak from no experience. I don't believe Norton is entirely right, but he's sure much closer than you.

Yelling and warning shots don't scare moose. In this specific circumstance, yelling and advancing the machine on the moose incited the charge. I don't know that the rider wanted to shoot something but if not, like you, he was certainly ignorant of moose behavior. As for the warning shot, he might as well aimed it at his foot or his ass cheek, warning shots don't turn charging moose.

If I was to arm chair quarterback this thing, I believe I'd of stuck the machine in reverse and backed out of there on the trail I came in on immediately. The trail looks wide and hard packed so getting stuck doesn't seem a foregone conclusion. I would not abandon the machine. I'd use it as a shield to the best of my ability. Like the rider, I'd of also had my firearm deeply buried somewhere and inaccessible. You just can't ride with a holster belted on the outside very well.

I believe it at least possible that the partner seen at the end of the video had already ridden past the moose and possibly angered it, possibly thru no fault of the rider. (I mean you go for a ride and occasionally see moose!) If the moose then got out on the trail, the second rider came along and obviously advanced and yelled in an ignorant effort at moving the moose. The charge was guaranteed. Reversing the machine would have been the only way to deflate the confrontation and avoid killing the animal needlessly.

Around here the really experienced riders would tell you the throttle is the answer to all snowmachine hazards. Open water? Gas it. Creek crossing? Gas it. Steep mountain? Gas it. In some cases, the best way to get away from an angry moose could be to gas it. Aim off the trail, get your 156" paddle track floating on top of the snow and gas it. A rapidly retreating threat seems a whole lot less inviting to stomp than a threat bluff charging you the way that rider did to that moose.

Pdog, you obviously don't know what you're talking about again. Up here you just don't run around shooting every perceived threat. I can tell you very honestly that if you came up here with your Shoot Everything That Moves mentality you'd get run outta town faster than you arrived. These moose are prized. Moose are valued. You shoot moose because its hunting season and the freezer is bare. Shooting moose because they didn't get out of your way in the time you allotted them is a sin.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Norton:
Why keep advancing on it? He wanted to shoot something and did.

That's why he yelled and took other actions to scare the moose away.

That's why he had his handgun under his coat with an empty chamber and fired a warning shot.

It was just a moose it attack and could very well have killed or injured the person that shot it.

Sorry it was a very justifiable shooting.

I am not willing to take a moose hoof to the head it could very well kill you.

Your statement is one of the most foolish ones made yet.

Pdog, you obviously don't know what you're talking about again. Up here you just don't run around shooting every perceived threat. I can tell you very honestly that if you came up here with your Shoot Everything That Moves mentality you'd get run outta town faster than you arrived. These moose are prized. Moose are valued. You shoot moose because its hunting season and the freezer is bare. Shooting moose because they didn't get out of your way in the time you allotted them is a sin.[/QUOTE

Nortons statement has no proof what so ever that he was out trying to kill something.

If you don't believe a moose jumping onto your snowmobile and trying to strike you with it hoofs is not a threat your life and limbs. What is.

I guess a person trying to hit you in the head with a base ball bat isn't either.

Here is 4 links to moose attacks where people ended up in the hospital. Many more out there.

When some one or some thing is trying to kill you or do you great bodily harm. Deadly force is justifiable to defend your self.

One of the links the DFG killed the moose after the attack what's the different.

Yes moose are wonderful animals very good to eat but I am not going allow one to kill or cause me great bodily harm.

I know very much what constitutes and attack that allows deadly force to be use.

Maybe he could have prevented but once the moose attack he was justified in shooting.



http://www.google.com/url?sa=t...FWvHs7aPrYitMrqXrLJg

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t...jp4qDR3KmzDCvrpEWBjA

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t...wGWWi28N31VyDfdTb5qw


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t...saUcOI6dMSQB2Gz0eIWQ

NOT a legit shoot. Whether the snowmobile has reverse or not is irrelevant as it is pretty clear he saw the moose before the fork in the trail but still decided to push forward. I think the Wildlife department is going to have some serious questions about that choice. I obviously think he had the right to shoot to defend himself eventually, but he is responsible for putting himself in that situation. There was no need for the guy to put himself in that spot where he had to push the animal. What's more, I think he did a half-assed job of claiming his turf once he was in that position where he committed to pushing forward. Guy screwed up on multiple fronts.

It is true that I have no idea whether or not he was "out to shoot something" as I previously stated. I should not have said that. My perception from watching the video alone is that the moose didn't have to die.....and that's coming from someone who has absolutely NO problem killing animals for the right reason.

I said this on another forum when they were discussing this video and I'll say it again. This is pretty piss poor! He provoked the attack by continually pushing the moose and then when it's trying to leave he starts shooting. Pretty bad all around.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
when it's trying to leave he starts shooting. Pretty bad all around.

Not what I saw at all. I think that moose was coming back for more. Still, he should not have been in that position in the first place. He had a chance to avoid conflict by turning left onto another trail when he saw the moose...but didn't.

JMHO

Dense timber right there no hope of turning around.

Unknown if his snow mobile had reverse. Turning on to the left trail. It is not well used he could have got stuck it could easily be a dead end.

2nd snow mobile behind him could have prevented him from backing up.

As with any large animal it is very hard to predict what they are going to do.

One thing for sure large animals can and have killed and injured a lot of people.

It just takes a few spilt second for it to happen.

I was raised around large critters horses, cattle, hogs. You treat them with respect but you knew at any given time and the right circumstances. They could kill or severely injure you.

And not even large ones I good friend of mine was almost killed by a 150lb white tail buck.(they had a deer farm).

He said they never had any trouble with it raised it from a fawn. One day and in about 30 seconds it turned on him. Puncture his lungs in 3 spots broke a leg and a bunch of ribs.

My next door neighbor was training her horse the horse "accidently ran her over" breaking her femur and cracking a bunch of ribs. The horse wasn't even trying to hurt her.

The list could go on and on large animals are dangerous and can inflict death or great bodily harm in split seconds.

Could he avoided it maybe maybe be not. What he could have done, where he could have went to try and avoid it is just speculation on very bodies part.

But again once it attacked he was justified in shooting it.

I suspect that most outdoorsmen would have not got themselves into the situation to begin with, and that this guy is no outdoorsman. We will never know. If this did happen in Alaska then Fish & Game may have no choice but to charge the guy and let a judge or jury decide a self-defense claim. What do you think? The Alaska Administrative Code (AAC) says:

5 AAC 92.410. Taking game in defense of life or property (a) Nothing in 5 AAC prohibits a person from taking game in defense of life or property if:

(1) the necessity for the taking is not brought about by harassment or provocation of the animal, or by an unreasonable invasion of the animal's habitat;

(2) the necessity for the taking is not brought about by the improper disposal of garbage or a similar attractive nuisance; and

(3) all other practicable means to protect life and property are exhausted before the game is taken.



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