TheBear-78

Having been hunting for over 40 plus years having hunted in 8 or 10 states AK and Canada.. I nornmaly only hunt 3 or 4 states a year. Having shot well over a hundred head of big game. Not counting the thousands of game birds and other small game animals taken.
Being a NRA ceritifed rifle instructor, also being a ceritifed instructor in pistol, shotgun, patrol rifle. teaching several classes a year.

I know that my little knowledge of hunting and firearms most likely pales with your many decades. I guess I well have to cancel all my hunting for this fall and leave it to the rest of the real Hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
I imagine it was one of the "my rifle is always loaded" type guys who wouldn't listen to reason. A lot of people dont' realize that if your stupid you can wind up very dead up here, and it happens in a hurry.

Funny thing is African PHs are usually very relaxed about having a cartridge chambered in the rifle, and usually ask or expect the client to chamber one as soon as you leave the vehicle. You may be hunting for hours after that with a loaded rifle. I know myself I unload the chamber when entering the vehicle, if having lunch and leaving the rifle leaning against a tree or in a vehicles gunrack, or if someone else carries the rifle. Otherwise it is always loaded.

Why are African PHs relaxed while Alaskan Guides are uptight about it?

Training (or lack of it) of the PH / Guide?

Difference in the ability of the clients?

Just interested.

Nitro, this could be a stretch, but my thinking is that your typical African hunter is likely well seasoned.

Where as, hundreds of hunts per year are booked in N.A. by fellas who may be going on their 1st guided Hunt. Overall experience & average age of Hunters, would likely be highr in the African Countries.

It may also be a "Trust" thing. N. Americans (whether Canadian or American) seem to be leery on trusting anybody, especially those hiking behind them with a loaded Rifle.

could be off on this though

Pdog, does your back hurt? You probably have a bruise from patting it so hard. I'm glad your impressed with yourself because I'm sure not.

My comment about falling down 25 times was tongue-in- cheek....probably should have put a smiley in there. I just got back from hunting deer on Kodiak and the thick vegatation and uneven ground makes for some challenging walking to say the least. The last time I remember falling, not down the mtn!!!, but at least to my knees or back, was sheep hunting and crawling/fighting/walking on top of large blueberry patches to get to where we would see sheep...with my empty-chambered gun none the less!

I think one reason a lot of alaskan hunters are more willing to load a gun after you see the animal(at least big game) is that we sometimes have requirements that take some time to figure out if the animal is legal(hard to make snap decisions on 50", 3 or 4 brow tines, full curl sheep, is that caribou a little bull or cow?). If these situations you probably have a lot of time

If P-dog hunter wants to run around lwith one up the tube all the time he can.....I would rather not. I have taught a few HE classes myself..... and if the safety rules are followed one will not get hurt by a firearm.

Back to the original question...never used a 9.3X62 or a merkel SR1. The cartidge has a fine reputation and IMHO would be fine. I am not sure if any stores in AK stock merkles so I might have to look at them on the web just for kicks.

-phil

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
Nitro, this could be a stretch, but my thinking is that your typical African hunter is likely well seasoned.

Where as, hundreds of hunts per year are booked in N.A. by fellas who may be going on their 1st guided Hunt. Overall experience & average age of Hunters, would likely be highr in the African Countries.

It may also be a "Trust" thing. N. Americans (whether Canadian or American) seem to be leery on trusting anybody, especially those hiking behind them with a loaded Rifle.

could be off on this though

It probably is more that the game is sighted at a greater distance allowing a bolt to be closed out of earshot when a stalk is commenced.

Also that more shots are fired during an African safari as compared to a single animal hunt in Alaska.

I couldn't imagine being instructed to keep the chamber empty until right before the shot is fired in Africa. Imagine crawling up to within 20 yards of a group of unaware duggaboys and then being told to work a noisy bolt.

Life is also cheaper in Africa too than North America, perhaps and the attitude extends to other areas.

My personal attitude is to keep the rifle unooaded, but cartridges in the magazine until actually hunting, ie if walking to look for game, it is unloaded, but once game is sighted I loaded up.

What training and qualifications are required to be a hunting guide in Alaska?

From a safety prespective what makes running around AK with a loaded gun more dangerous then runing around the lower 48.

Doing a float trip for ducks and geese with loaded shot guns shooting 15 20 times a day a lot less dangerous then a float trip for big game where one might shoot once or twice in a week.

Doing a deer drive in swamp so thick the avg shot is in feet not yards where there are 7 or 8 hunters in a 40 acre patch where ones group in most likey going to shoot 3 to 5 deer in one drive. Much less dangerous then hunting with one other person when the two of you are the only ones around for miles.

Hunting Pheasants in a SD cattail marsh with 8 or 10 guys up to your knees or higher(no trip hazard there) sight of your hunting partners is a flash of orange hat because the cattails are so thick and high one can't see 5 feet in front of him. A heck of a lot dangerous then hunting by oneself or with another in AK.

Climbing a 13000 foot Mt. in Montana or WY. CO. ect in black timber blow down after elk. Alot less dangerous then climbing the same mt in AK after sheep.

Hunting grouse in tagalder sawmps with a couple of other guys were your avg shot is maybe 10 yards that only because they get up above the brush. Where one group is shooting and bagging 10 to 15 a day fireing 20 to 30 shots. Much less dangerous then hunting in AK.

Hunting black bear with hounds and going into brush so thick one can not see the hounds or the bear 30 feet in front of you but can see the tops of the brush moving from the bear and hounds fighting. Now get in there and shoot the bear with out hitting the hounds or your hunting partner. Much less dangerous then hunting in AK.

You guys in AK must think hunters in the lower 48 only sit round in tree stands. Never hunt in blow downs brush so thick seeing in feet instead of yards doesn't happen.

All I can say if one hunted with a empty chamber in the above situtations one would hardly ever kill any game. We had I belive 600000 hunters out in a nine day deer season we had 2 or 3 so called hunting accidents one I belive was pulling aloaded gun up a tree stand( really stuiped any place). The other two were people fireing there guns and not knowing what they were shooting at or what was behind the thing they were shooting at. I woud say 99% of them carry chambered rounds when they have a gun in there hands.

So from a safety asspect is hunting in AK that much more dangerous then hunting in the lower 48.

Sounds to me like your pretty dangerous anwhere you hunt.

What your failing see is that carrying a firearm with a loaded chamber. Used in the proper way isn't all that dangerous.

That for millions of other hunters also it is perfectly safe.

But if you want to carry with a empty chamber feel free I never said you shouldn't.

What we have seen is a large drop in hunting accidents mainly due to more training ,hunter orange laws, ect.

Safe hunting to all no matter how you carry your firearm.

p dog shooter:

You seem like a safe hunter to me and I would be very comfortable having you hunt with me, in front or back, with a chambered round in your safety-on rifle.

In Africa, the PH always asks me politely to chamber a round and put the rifle on safe as soon as we get off the truck. He and the tracker then proceeds me to stalk the game. When we return to the truck he politely asks me to unload my rifle. I guess African PHs and Alaskan guides differ in the amount of confidence they have in their clients.

When I was a Marine in Vietnam, '64-'65, we were not allowed to chamber a round until we were actually engaged, and usually it was after the VC had opened fire first. Then we had to have permission to open fire, only after it was ascertained that the fire upon us were truly unfriendly. Not having confidence in another person's ability to handle a firearm safely seems to be an American trait.

I don't feel that my ego (or manhood, if one needs to think in those terms) will be damaged if I choose to keep a round chambered during the course of the stalk. I'm confident in my ability to handle that firearm safely.

Now on the 9.3x62 - if I had one, I'd feel comfortable using in for Brown Bear, regardless if the .338 WM is more powerful and is does not fit between a .338 and .375. I like the look of the CZ550 Mannlicher stock and will get one after I get back from Africa - just for its looks.

safe hunting,
Namibiahunter

http://namibiahunter.angelfire.com

What your failing to see Pdog shooter is that hunting in alaska is inherently more dangerous than hunting in wisconsin. You could easily fall down and break your leg or slip and cut your self too deep while cutting up an animal, in alaska with no quick way to get medical attention those things could every easily wind up in your death. You could get lost, make a wrong turn with you snow machine and travel trails aimlessly untily you out of gas or stuck in overflow and freeze to death. There is no just walk the next mile until you hit a paved road here, I moose hunt 17 miles off a paved road that we have to access by 4 wheeler. If one of us got badly hurt they could quite likely be dead by the time somebody rode out to the road to try to get cell service. Because of this most alaskan hunters try to be very careful. If you slip up and shoot your buddy in the leg chances are you can get him flown out or get help very quickly to get medical help. Up on the slope where we hunt carabou it could take over a day for us to get out to find help, and then the quickest we could hope for would be a truckers CB.

When I grew up in michigan, upland game hunting, deer hunting, predator hunting, I always carried a loaded gun. When I moved up here everything was different. Now I don't carry loaded anymore. Hunting everywhere is different, you can't really compare alaska with africa or even wisconsin. They all have thier own individual traits and you tactics should change accordingly.

Don't try to push a tactical LEO, African PH, or wisconsin bird hunters tactics or outlook into a situation where it isn't fitting.

'If one of us got badly hurt they could quite likely be dead by the time somebody rode out to the road to try to get cell service. Because of this most alaskan hunters try to be very careful. If you slip up and shoot your buddy in the leg chances are you can get him flown out or get help very quickly to get medical help. Up on the slope where we hunt carabou it could take over a day for us to get out to find help, and then the quickest we could hope for would be a truckers CB"

Didnt this happen last year at lake louise when the one guy got shot and before they got to the road he was dead? Alot of mistakes were made that day and it did include a loaded chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
What training and qualifications are required to be a hunting guide in Alaska?

Just wondering ...

If one slips and falls and suffers life threating injuries. Gets accidently shot and suffers life threating injury. Gets mauls by a bear, or falls out of a tree stand and suffers life threating injury. Life threating injury is one that will kill you in under a hr with out medical intervention in the frist hr.

The avg ambulance response time out side a city off a country rd in northern wis. is most likey a hr or more. Lots more if it takes 4x4 or a 4 wheeler to get to you.

On a rd 20 to 30 min.s 99% volenteer crews just take time to get them going. I was injured on at work on a major highway took 30 min for the ambulance to get there.

There lots of places in the 48 where your life is in just as grave of danger no cell service no roads hrs from the nearest trail head. Mainly out west fewer in the east.

If one is injured and lives past the first hr one is more likely can get live long enough to get help.

Sat phone rental is getting cheaper all the time hand held avation radios are availibly. Emergency locators about 900 dollars apeice. Three ways to get help coming.

More chances of getting hurt no. mOre chances of dieing if one receives life threating wounds a good chance. Ask almost medical first responder and most well say the frist hr is the most critical.

If one hunts any place where one is more then one hr from advance medical help. One is in very grave danger of dieing if one recives a life threaing wound.

All that said one has to be very carefull any place one hunts getting hurt and ending up in the hospital is no fun.

Haveing never been dead I don't know about that and I don't want to find out for at least 30 more years or so.

A life threatening injury could be a sprained knee pretty easily up here. It could just as easily be 30 hours or more before you could summon help a lot of the time. Once again you seem to be unable to seperate apples from oranges.