Merkel just came out with semi-auto the SR1 in 9.3X62. I think this might make a nice Bear rifle. Has anyone seen or shoot this rifle.
DR B

No but every semi I've ever used is noisy to chamber a round. Since guide won't let you wonder around behind him with round in chamber this is a drawback (IMHO)

quote:

No but every semi I've ever used is noisy to chamber a round. Since guide won't let you wonder around behind him with round in chamber this is a drawback (IMHO)

If a guide thinks I'm going to walk around Alaska with a empty chamber he can find another client.
DR B

Dr B If you are upfront about your need to have a cartridge in the chamber you'll be lucky to find someone to guide you. On the other hand the 9.3X62 is all the gun you'd need up here.

Carrying with an empty chamber is pretty much standard practice up here. There really isn't any reason so have one in there most of the time. Just chamber when your on your final stalk or about to shoot.

I have never hunted ANYWHERE, and I will never hunt ANYWHERE without a round in the chamber.

I do not care if I am hunting rabbits or elephants.

Carrying "empty" is pretty standard for guided hunters but I don't know anyone who hunts on their own without one chambered.

I think a lot of it boils down to what your perception of hunting is. Most of the time we are in the feild is probably more considered travel time up here. Climbing, riding 4 wheeler, glassing, or running the boat, stuff like that make up the bulk of my day. During these activities there is no reason to have one in the chamber. Now if moose calling, putting teh stalk on a critter, or something like that I will chamber a round, but that probably takes up less than 10-15% of the time. I don't really do any stand hunting except for black bear but when I am on stand I will chamber a round.

I wouldn't want anyone climbing or crawling around behind me with a chambered round either, just way to many things that could go wrong, dropped gun,caught on brush, lots of stuff. I rolled down a mountain last year and broke a rifle in half, with that kind of bouncing around it wouldn't have been out of the relm of possibily for a safety to get bumped off and the gun go off. Weird stuff like that can happen sometimes.

Before I moved to alaska I used to hunt with a round in the chamber all the time too. But there is a big difference between sitting in your stand or slowly stillhunting woods or a corn feild for deer than climbing a mountain looking for moose or sheep. Generally you have plenty of time to get your shot off on alaskan game, hell it takes at least twice as long to make sure a bull moose is legal than it does to chamber a round.

That was a thoughtful and well-considered response tb_78.

I'm sure the merkel is a great rifle but I dont trust semi's up here. Sometimes the terrain isnt to forgiving on moving parts.

As for carrying one in the tube, dont do it and wont. To many things can go wrong and if you see a bear or moose (which IMO are more dangerous than bears) you will have time to chamber. if you dont see them first then its probably to late anyway (not all the time though).

If I know I'm going into a situation, I will chamber but for normal hiking etc. Nope.

The only time I will chamber a round when not ready to shoot is if we come across a animal carcass or food cache. There isn't much jump shooting of critters up here and if you have to shoot that fast the movement of rackign a shell in only takes a second.

We're getting off topic but I usually load up when I get to camp and unload when I go home.

If you know your rifle is always loaded, you treat it like a loaded rifle.

Naturally, no kids or boozers at my camp.

You should always treat a rifle like its loaded anyway. One of the main principles of gun safety. THERE ARE NO UNLOADED GUNS!!! People can do as they like, but they won't be crawling or climbing around me.

I dont mind a loaded magazine but nothing in front of the firing pin, ie: nothing down the tube. Its amazing how fast you can work a bolt or slide with practice.

I'll never forget the sound of our game scout's AK47 falling down the rocks BEHIND us in Zim. That will get your juices flowing.

Joel/AK I did some testing the last time this was brought up. I had my son a very good man with a bolt gun. I time him in getting shots off with working the bolt and from loaded safety on. I did not tell him why.

Having to work the bolt( with safety off) to chamber a round was always 1.75 sec to 2.5 sec slower. With safety on 2.5 to 3.5 seconds slower then getting a shot off with round chamber safety on. The time to shot with safety on round chamber to the shot was .75 to 1.25.

All times were taken with rifle at port of arms.

I guess as long as one does not have to shoot fast empty chamber is ok.

We always hunt with loaded chamber safety on. When in south dakota hunting pheasants it is in large groups some time 12 to 20 hunters. One would not kill many birds if one hunted with a empty chamber. One would not kill many white tails with a empty chamber.

Each to his own but I hunt with a loaded chamber safety on.

Each to his own P dog. Almost 3 seconds to chamber a round???? I may have read it wrong (but thats the way I took it) but thats a joke.

Now with reactipon time, its understandable. Even with reaction time some people still cant flip the safety off in 3 seconds.

I dont know but something comes to my mind, something called practice.

To me its not worth it for a loaded chamber. dont see any sense in risking it. I have yet run into a situation (only been charged once so I am no expert in that scenario) where I was hindered in not having a loaded chamber.

Oh well, like everybody agrees on, different strokes for different folks.

Get someone with a good stop watch and try it for yourself and post the results. All you have to to is miss the safety once and you get the 3 seconds. If your gun opens with the safety fully applied so be it I used a ruger MKII.

These are for 10 shot strings

Once again your really not comparing apples to apples. Upland bird hunting in ND, whitetail hunting, and big game hunting in AK are VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. It makes a lot more sense for you to carry loaded bird hunting and I don't think anywhere here you will find it recomended that you hunt pheasants with an empty chamber but I bet you open your action when climbing over a fence or empty your shotgun in your car, or your rifle while climbing into your stand.

We don't just get out of our truck and walk 100 yards to our stands up here. There are miles of riding, boating, climbing, and hiking thru ROUGH terrain that we include in our "hunting". That is why you will find most alaskans say they hunt with empty chamber.

You are 100 times more likey to shoot your buddy or yourself accidentally while traversing this country than need to get the quick shot off.

I have heard of some local guides who have gone so far as to take the bolt away from thier client to keep themselves safe, and still get the client a moose.

This is an alaskan forum, talk about carrying loaded on a ND upland game forum all you want but bow to those who have some first hand experience in the subject at hand on this issue.

A spoonsfull of situational awareness is much better than the fastest draw!

My bad, South Dakota

If we are calling being in a boat, riding on a 4 wheeler ect hunting then I agree loaded mag empty chamber.

If we are calling walking around looking for something to kill hunting then I disagree. When my rifle or shot gun is in my hands loaded chamber safety on.

What would you guys do when you carry with a double or single shot.

To all that insist on carrying a round in the chamber you'll only get to hunt with the "B" list guides or the wannabees as we call them. More after Kodiak bear season! Jim

When I hunt in Alaska where there is a possibility of coming across bear or moose in the bush I carry a revolver with all chambers loaded. My rifle has rounds in the magazine but not one chambered until I begin my final stalk. When I am hunting alone, my rifle will have a round in the chamber from the time my foot hits the ground until I return to the vehicle or plane.

namibiahunter

Oops - forgot to address the original question. I think that the 9.3x62 would be a great bear gun and I'm thinking of getting one in CZ550 full stock just to have something between my .338 WinMag and my .375 H&H, and because I think it's a good looking gun.

namibiahunter

I think we can all come together on this one.

Alaska moose scenario....You and your two buddies leave camp at O dark thirty via boat. you pull up to the steep cut bank, get out of the boat, tie it off and crawl up the bank. At the top of the bank everyone puts a round in the chamber and then they proceed 100 yards to the meadow to glass and call Mr. moose. Mid-morning they all go back to the boat, at the top of the bank unload(some just empty the chamber, others the whole magazine).

Sheep hunting.......you walk 6 miles into spike camp, 3 of those are through blueberry bushes up to you armpits and 8' alders. You fall down ~25 times at least to your knees. The only time you load your gun is when you run into the worlds largest porcupine at 15 feet in the blueberries that tightens you spincter so much you can't crap for three days. From camp you can see sheep 3 more miles away....mabye I will chamber a round when we make our final stalk.

-phil

Took this picture a few days ago, with the wife and youngin' on board. We were about 30 feet offshore, in 3ft of water, and I never considered pulling the Redhawk out of the dry box (where it always rests, with a speed loader of 300gr bullets nearby.)

Some of you folks need to relax...

quote:

Originally posted by namibiahunter:
Oops - forgot to address the original question. I think that the 9.3x62 would be a great bear gun and I'm thinking of getting one in CZ550 full stock just to have something between my .338 WinMag and my .375 H&H, and because I think it's a good looking gun.

namibiahunter

The .9.3 fall below the .338WM in power. The bullet may be of a larger diameter, but the .338 can push a 300-grain slug a little faster than the 9.3 x 62.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/9362.html

Bw nice pic. but needless to say if the bear had decided to come aboard with you.( I see no reason to worry about this bear 99% of bears you don't have to worry about) You never would have got the redhawk out of the dry box and loaded before he was in side with you.

I have loaded thousand of rounds from speed loaders into revolvers shooting police combat courses. From the last shot to a loaded gun some where around 1.5 to 3 seconds depending. The guys that didn't paractice were more like 5 to 10 secs.

That was with revolver in you hand and a good speed loader holder on your belt. So now you have to open the dry box find the gun and loader open the gun place the loader in the gun release the shells close the gun and then shoot.

If your the one steering the boat you allso have to drop the oars or the paddle or leave go of the tiller now the boat is spinning.

Why would leave the gun unloaded Its not going off by it's self.

So before you go telling me how fast you can do go sit in your boat with your gun in the dry box unloaded speed loader nearby and have some one run at you from 30 feet and time them.

Then time getting the gun out and loaded and get a shot off into a target. Compare both times
and post them here.I would like to see the results. I know that from 21 feet it takes a really good pistol user to draw and shoot someone running at them. Let alone digging a unloaded gun out of a box and loading it.

If you think your going to do all that and still place stopping shots on a charging bear before he gets to you, more power to you.

I saw 4 bears last sunday fishing the kenai, a large boar across the river about 150 yards, two cubs across the river about 100 yards and one young bear at about 15 feet. That last one got my attention but didn't send me reaching for my gun. He was laying down not the least concerned about me, I just turned around and backed away watching him. All he did was lift his head look at me, then go back to watching the river in front of him. Not every bear out there is looking to eat you. I was whistling like I almost always do while walkign around fishing so he wasn't surprised, thats the hbig thing.

This whole subject is comical actually. each to there own. its a good thing they make pills for paranoia.

This subject looked innocent enough when I clicked on it. Geez! Also interesting how the respectable 9.3X62 subject has been left in the dust. Lots of good advice from the Alaska natives. With all due respect, as for the gentlemen that will always carry with a cartridge in the chamber, I guess they never fall down...probably the same guys that never miss.

Test Results with HKS speedloader loaded 315 gr wfn and ruger red hawk. Drawing from shoulder hoslter to shot on target 2 seconds avg A good hip holster not being covered by any thing ( coat ect) 1.25 seconds.

Sitting on floor with redhawk and speed loader next to it, with in easy arm reach from start to loaded gun 6 sec avg best 4.5 worse 7.5.

Having gun in same spot but in a closed and latched dry box. Getting loaded gun out and on target 3 seconds. Getting unloaded gun out and loaded with speed loader 7.75 avg.

All these times are with gun/ box/ speed loader with in easy reach and knowing that one is going to go for it.

Having to do anything else before grapping gun or opening box would increase times accordenly.

So if one has a extra 4 plus seconds to save ones life ect carry any way you want.

Yes Joel it is a good thing they make pills for paranoia.

Its bearanoia, its a fairly common disease in those from the lower 48. You wouldn't believe how many people you see loaded up like thier going to war every time they head to the river to fish, and their almost always from the lower.

P dog shooter how long excatly does it take a charging brown bear to make it the several thousand miles from where they actually live to where you are. If dreaming about bear charges turns your crank more power to you but please stop trying to give the people that hunt and live up here your "expert" advice.

After being a Hunting Guide for 11 yrs. I am a FIRM believer in "Unchambered". One has no idea what kind of crack pot is carrying that Rifle, & I didnt need to wonder!

Next month I am going to the Peninsula for Brown Bear, and whether the Guide wants a round Chambered or not, the only time one will be chambered, is when the need arises and I'm pretty sure I will be able to decipher when that need is.

As far as the original question. I am going to have a 9.3X62 built, & if it were ready for the above mentioned Hunt, I would absolutely take it. I have never hunted in Alaska, but have Guided in the Yukon, BC & Alberta, & IMO I wouldnt have an Auto for a SERIOUS Hunt in any one of those places.

Paranoia about shooting oneself or another must be common in AK. Hunitng accidents are at a all time low in the country.

They are mostly people shooting others they thought of as game or not knowing there back stop.. Rarely are they from some one tripping or falling with a loaded gun. That kind of accident is most likely as rare as a bear attack.

Matter of fact I have heard of more bear attacks this year then accidental shootings.

Unless one counts the I pointed the gun at my buddy and pulled the trigger I didn't know it was loaded a accident.

I guess if one would play the odds every law enforcement officer shouldn't carry loaded guns with them because when one looks at the times a officer needs a loaded gun to when he does not is way more then when he does.

The odds are you well not need the matchs, compass ect most people don't get lost.


The odds are one well never have to wear his seltbelt most people don't get into car crash's,

The odds are one well never need his PFD most boats don't sink or tip over.

The odds are one well never need the fire extingsher ( I bet the fire exingsher is loaded and ready to go) that been hanging on the wall the last 20 years most houses don't burn down.

The odds nothing bad is going to happen to you so whay take any precautions.

Even with armed felons 99% of the time they give up with out a fight so the cops should walk around with a empty chamber because its safer. They should wait untill the felon tells them he is going to attack then pull the gun out and chamber one up.

Armed felons some times attack cops. Bears some times attack people. The odds are they well not attack you. If you want to play the odds more power to you. If you get caught no skin off my back.

There are no bears in wis. We have had no bear attcks here Right. Thats is why I see tracks in my drive way on a weekly basic that is why I see bears a couple a times a month driving around. That is why when I go berry picking the smelly black shit is all round and the brush is trampled down. Thats why I shot a 490 lb black bear 100 yards from my dads back door last fall.

Thats why we had a boy scout dragged from his tent a couple of years ago. That's why we had a farmer attacked feeding his pigs Thats why we had a bear come up on a guys deck and take a bite out of him. Thats why a gal walking in they woods was mauled 70 miles from my house.

I have never told any body what they should do I have posted times it takes to get a loaded and unloaded gun into action. If you feel safer carrying a unloaded weapon because you don't feel safe carrying a
loaded one more power to you.

I have trained hundreds of law enforcement officers over the last 30 years. They all carry their side arms loaded all the time when working. They are trained to carry there long guns chamber empty mag full in there cruisers. When they deploy them they load the chambers.

Unintentional discharges are rare ( they do happen) attacks by felons are rare. ( they do Happen) attacks by bears are rare (They Do happen)

I train to prevent unintentional discharges. I also train to swiftly take care of an attacker.

How you carry your guns is total up to you.

For me a when I have a gun in my hands I preferr it loaded.

Now I'm starting to see the problem with you Pdog. Its your law enforcement background. You approach every situation like a tactical assult. The thing is nobody said anything about law enforcement in this post or any of the other posts you drop in on and dominate with your bearaphobic rantings.

I bet there are a lot more accidental discharges than you are giving credit to also, just thankfully most times nobody is injured.

Your problem is you are motivated by fear. Fear of a felon, fear of a bear, and the feeling of power you find in being armed. So you take the time to time every possible action to "prepare" you for the worst situation. Why don't you go fondle yourself over a Swatt or soldier of fortune magazine and leave this forum to us hunters.

I've known at least two people personally who shot themselves accidentally with hand guns. One was an MP and the other a security guard.

I thought that both of them were low wattage bulbs, if you catch my drift, but that doesn't alter the reality of it.

Since I'm not an NFL quarterback, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's easy to see the guide's point of view. Quite frankly, I think the danger of an accidential discharge in rough terrain is much greater than the danger posed by a bear lying in wait, except under exceptional conditions. And guides are supposed to detect exceptional conditions; that's why they make the big bucks. Lol.

Anyway, I'm not an expert, but I play one on TV.

To throw in my 2 cents....

I don't chamber a round until I start a stalk, unless there is GOOD reason to think a bear is about (food, fresh tracks/crap, in heavy cover). With a pistol it's usually hammer down on an empty chamber. When I see a bear up close such as fishing or when on a bear trail thru brush, I'll have it in hand. I use a marlin (50ak with crossbolt safety removed) as a camp/boat/tent gun because it is fast an easy to work the lever as it is mounted, but otherwise can 'safely' be left with an empty chamber. When I do chamber or unchamber a round, I tell my partner have have him watch and vice versa.

I really think most of the differences come from the style of hunting in AK. At lot of it consists of either travel via vehicle of some sort or back breaking hiking as noted above (falling down only 25 times is a good day sheep hunting!) or endless hours and days of glassing. Most of the bears I've stalked were spotted at least 2-3 hours prior to getting into rifle range. Every time that we have we've surprised each other they were just not that interested and I've walked right by sleeping and fishing bears ready but without incident. I used to see fresh brown bear tracks almost every summer day walking my dog. The only time they've ever shown any interest was when I've inadvertently gotten between them and food or a brown who followed me (2 days in a row) that turned out to have been shot through the jaw by someone else, now a rug. The bottom line, nothing usually happens that quickly.

Now as to the rifle in question, I would be a bit concerned about using any semi simply from a reliability stand point depending on the hunting conditions.

My rifles are divided between 'nice' guns and 'bad weather' guns. If I'm out for the day from a vehicle or good camp, any gun is fine. If I'm back packing or snow, salt water, alders or endless coastal drizzle are involved, a bad weather guns gets the nod. I'm always amazed where dirt, water, ice, leaves etc, can end up despite my best efforts throughout the day. I think the rifle and caliber are fine, I'd just know my conditions.

Dr B, my recommendation is to get one, come north, have fun, and let us know how it works out.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
I have heard of some local guides who have gone so far as to take the bolt away from thier client to keep themselves safe ...

That is ridiculous unless it was a particularly stupid and dangerous client.

I imagine it was one of the "my rifle is always loaded" type guys who wouldn't listen to reason. A lot of people dont' realize that if your stupid you can wind up very dead up here, and it happens in a hurry.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Bw nice pic.

Thanks, I was having too much fun taking pictures to worry about the silly bear.

Actually, is just a matter of knowing the critter and being comfortable at various distances.