I have searched this topic and have seen many different opinions. When hunting is the light weight rifle a must? I have read that they are hard to shoot after climbing and being out of breath. I have a .300 win mag that is 9.2 Lbs, would this be burden or a blessing? I have no problem with getting a lightweight rifle but I am confused if it would actually help or not.

they are not hard to shoot, i have a 6.2lb .416 remington and i love it so much more than any other rifle i've ever owned. and don't let all the recoil stories fool you...light guns aren't as bad as heavy guns, at least the one i own. i had a 9lb 416. and it was way worse to shoot than my light weight one. if i was buying a sheep/goat/mountian rifle i'd go light and go .300 for sure. lots of options but thats what i'd do, get it down in the low 6lb range.
mine is an ultra light arms .416

Fortyonesix,

Either the 2 .416s you shot are a miracle of physics, or the lighter one has a great muzzle break on it and the heavier one had a stock that fit you horribly.

A nine pound gun is on the heavy side, but not that big of a deal if this is a one time hunt. If you are going to be doing this often I would get a lighter and shorter gun.

It doesn't need to be super light... under 8 pounds or less with scope and bullets at a minimum (3 bullets in the bottom and 3 to 6 on the stock), under seven would be a good number to try for. If you can afford it try for under 6 pounds.

Short guns don't hang up in the brush, when using a gun carrier attached to your pack frame. Single shots are short by there nature and reload pretty fast. The do have a lot of muzzle jump and like to bite. If you go with super short gun, a thumb hole stock helps tame the muzzle jump. I am anti muzzle brake these days.

My old sheep gun was a run of the mill Remington in 7mm with 3-9 scope 8#'s... worked great, hated taking it through the alders. Then I went to a 7-30 waters in contender with overall length of 30 inches and 5#'s... it was a 200 yard gun max... did a great job and was fun to shoot, but not a goat caliber. Latest is an encore in 30-06, compact 3-9 scope, 31 inches overall, thumbhole stock, 6.5#'s... originally I had it down to 5.5 pounds but it hurt to much to shoot well... I love it, despite the muzzle jump.

Contenders and Encores are a relatively cheap way to get a light gun... no action means lighter and shorter gun.... order a short barrel and it's even better. I've looked into Ruger's Frontier gun (35.5 inches and 6.75 pounds without scope makes it heavy) if you could find a lighter stock for one I think it would be the best of both worlds... a light bolt action that is also short. Or just order a custom rifle.

Also look at a few of the Sheep DVD's that are out there, they are all different and good. I'm partial to the Alaskan ones.

Have fun on your hunt!
JB

Go with the 300 Winnie you have!

My sheep rifle is a .257 AI on a Mauser Mark X action. It weighs just under 9 1/2 lbs without sling and shells. It's been to the top of many sheep mountains, and has put down 4 Bighorn rams and one NWT Dall ram.

My goat rifle was my .30 Gibbs on a Herter's U-9 action. It weighs just over 9 1/2 lbs without sling and shells. It's been to the top of two goat mountains, and brought home one 9 5/8" billy.

All of the Bighorn hunts were in Montana, were DIY, and I was hunting by myself. The Dall hunt was my first ever guided hunt, a packpack hunt in Canada's Mackenzie mountains with a guide from Montana. I never felt that the weight of the rifle was a problem.

justin, they must be a miracle...no muzzle brakes on either of them.

near as i can figure it works like this...
someone throws you a pool ball you grab it and your hand swings back from the weight of the ball moving....

someone throws you a tennis ball, you grab it and your hand only moves a little. even though its going faster it don't rock your hand as much. takes less energy to stop the tennis ball.

heavy gun...more movement...
lighter gun..faster but takes less to stop the recoil.
least thats the way it seems.

kinda like why does and arrow going slower penetrate better at 50 yards than an arrow going faster at 20 yards....

quote:

Originally posted by EDMHUNTER:
I have no problem with getting a lightweight rifle but I am confused if it would actually help or not.

I have two "mountain" rifles ,both ultra-light, one is a 6.5/284, the other is a .300RUM.

On a different forum, I posted on a similar topic the following::

"As I get older the mountains get higher.

I have stalk (or as I was taught "still") hunted all my life.
Most quarry met its fate at 100 to 200 yds open sights when my eyes legs and lungs were younger.
As I aged , acquired optics, faster flatter rounds and became more rounded myself
that range increased.
As personal obligations grew and time to hunt grew less and cost to hunt grew more; I invested in yet faster rounds and more precise optics and rifles of less weight.(and lost some weight myself)
Today on many alpine hunts for true trophy level game, the distance to quarry as *****(name ) stated may often be 500yds.
For such a rare and expensive hunt, I carry a laser rangefinder, a precise light weight rifle with excellent optics.
I develop a proven and practiced load and still carry too much flab and too little conditioning.
Under such circumstance and conditions I find this sporting and fair in all sense and meaning of the terms.
I would love too have been able to take such a hunt when I was younger and better conditioned; when time and trophy quality were more plentiful, however FUNDS were not........"

I am thinking about a 708 in Rem Ti. Do you think this would make a good sheep gun?

I think ounces count when talking about firearms used in mountain conditions. The lightweight rifle will help you.

Personally have no experience with the rifle, the reports are excellent both on the web and also in person by people I know.

What Kind of rifle is Your .300

I think 9.2 lbs is a little heavy.

If I was going on a sheep/goat hunt I would use either my K 95 Stutzen in 308, or if it was going to be a severe weather hunt an R 93 in either 308 or 300 Win Mag.

I prefer the 308 over the 7mm08, mainly logistical reasons, but the 7mm08 would make a great sheep/goat rifle.

One "secret" to shooting a light weight rifle is to control the recoil movement. Use a tight hasty sling, and hold the gun tight, hard against your shoulder when sighting in.

Sight your rifle in off your hunting pack, the same way you will be shooting at the animal on the hunt.

I have a winchester model 70 stainless in .300.

300 WM is a fine cartridge for sheep & goat. No reason but the 9.2 lbs rifle not to use it and if you are in good shape that shouldn't be a reason either. First, I'll say that to enjoy your hunt you will want be in good shape anyway, so that is the first consideration. Just maybe you are fishing for someone to tell you that you really need a new rifle for these hunts, so let me help you out. You really need a new rifle to hunt sheep and goats.

Preferably that will be a 280 Rem. Titanium or NULA in a mountain rifle style Rimrock or MPI stock, Talley one piece scope mounts, and a Leupold 6x42 scope. That should shave about 3 lbs.

If, on the other hand, you are really attached to your 300 WM, but it is just too much to pack around you might consider changing the stock and scope mounts, which should shave at least 1.5 lbs off.

Good luck!

I have no problem buying a new rifle. I just don't want to buy a new lightweight rifle only to find out I can't shoot it very well when I am out of breath getting ready to shoot.

Fortyonesix,

It has to be stock fit. The other examples you gave with the baseball/tennis ball and arrow don't make sense. If the baseball moves your hand back more, it's got more energy to it. The arrow that penetrates more and is going slower is probably heavier (and therefore probably also has more energy, but that's not always the case). And what you said about the recoils of lighter/heavier guns...it's not the recoil that stops the gun, it's the gun that stops the recoil (heavier ones, in fact). It has to be the stock design, are they not different? The recoil would still be more with the lighter gun, just with the design on that one it must spread it out better for you and makes it feel more comfortable. If you had 2 guns of the same design, except one was lighter than the other, the lighter gun will kick more 100 times out of 100.

In keeping a rifle light it is helpful to keep the action short. I prefer the 7mm to a .30 caliber so I'm board with the 7mm-08. My personal light rifle is a 25 wssm.

EDM
9 1/2 lb. Rifle is to Heavy for the day in an out of Mountain Hunting.. After a couple of Days of the Grinder you'll be glad you made some changes to the weight of your Rifle ..
Call Kevin Weaver 719-683-3024 tell him you need to lighten your Rifle .. He'll make it lighter for less than a New Custom Mountain Rifle.. It will shoot too..
Next you have to look at your Clothing.. This is going to get Expensive you sure you want to go Sheep and Goat Hunting ..
AK

I am 45 now and I am thinking I should do my sheep and goat hunting befoere I get to old.

quote:

I have no problem with getting a lightweight rifle but I am confused if it would actually help or not.

I can only tell you what is right for me.....

A rifle and scope with sling and ammo weighing 7 1/2 pounds is not too bad. Anything more is staying home.

quote:

I am 45 now and I am thinking I should do my sheep and goat hunting befoere I get to old

went on my first and only goat hunt/trip and with success when I was about that. I hunt alot and am used to the rigors....it is the way it is. All three, mind,body and spirit have to be agreeable or it is going to be tough. The other three is pack, clothing and rifle...they will wear on you irregardless. Once you shuck the pack/frame then it is generally an easy carry. A 9lb seems light then.

Hope that helps.

Speaking of packs, look into a good one. I would recommend something by Eberlestock.

quote:

Originally posted by EDMHUNTER:
I am thinking about a 708 in Rem Ti. Do you think this would make a good sheep gun?

YES!!

EDM HUNTER- I did my first Dall Sheep hunt in the Brooks Range @ age 65. Rifle was about 9.5 lbs (.270 Win) loaded wi scope & sling, along wi back pack. Next two sheep hunts I used a Rem. Mtn. Lt S/S in ,270 Win, about eight lbs loaded wi scope & sling. Definitely felt the difference. For my Mtn Goat hunts I wanted more power, so I opted for S/S 6lb 3oz Kimber in .300WSM. As already stated, age is a factor. When I was a young pup I gave very little attention to rifle weight but as you age the hills get higher & steeper. If you are fit & in good sheep/goat hunting condition then, at age 45, a 9lb rifle may not be a concern Otherwise, I would go light. If you do, shoot a LOT & try to do some of it by simulating hunting conditions. Running & then shooting, etc. I had no problems shooting a light rifle under field conditions; that does not mean others won't. I handload, so I shoot a lot. You will also want all of your other gear to be light wi layered warm clothes. AND, take a the best pair of sheep/goat hunting boots you can afford and be sure they fit right. Your feet will be sooo thankful. This means you have to spend money for good gear. The tradeoff wi a light rifle is recoil, but in these calibers it is manageable. If I had it to do over I think I would just use the .300 WSM for both goat and sheep. The.270 is adequate for both, but I like the .300WSM for goat better. I have a Mod 70 S/S in .300 WM but it weighs almost 1.5 lbs more than the Kimber. Believe it, when you are climbing a 70 degree slope wi a backpack you will want to be relieved of every oz possible. After the 3rd try I got my ram in the NWT, above Br. Columbia. Last Nov. got my billy near Juneau, after ist try near Atlin, B.C.- at age 73. Good luck.

quote:

After the 3rd try I got my ram in the NWT, above Br. Columbia. Last Nov. got my billy near Juneau, after ist try near Atlin, B.C.- at age 73. Good luck.

the spirit of a hunter!

Olguy,
That's quite an accomplishment given your age. Congratulations.

Edmhunter,
There's lots of factors when considering rifles. What time of year are you going for goat? I took mine in Nov when there was a LOT of snow to traverse. I needed a bigger bullet to hit that goat to knock it down off a cliff. I used a 325 and was lucky to have it.
The ram was taken with a 300 wsm at over 400 yds.

It's true that you want less weight but don't worry about a pound or two. It was easier to take it off my fat ass than to worry about the gun itself. Worry more about strong legs, good lungs and making sure your scope stays true. If you do get DVDs, look what the guides are using - not the hunter. I will guarantee you that the guide's guns aren't $5k ultra lite weights.

I've done two sheep and two goat hunts. I'm doing 2 more sheep hunts this year. So my experience isn't vast by any means. Just my 2 cents.

Olguy: I think we must change your handle to GOguy you've earned it...
AK

Wouldn't mind throwing my 2cents worth in on this on. For both sheep and goat I would probably go with a 300wsm on a custom rifle that weighs in around 5 lbs. w/scope. Light weight cause of the sheep factor. Preferably a control feed action. The 284 would be a great cartrige too but would like a .30 for some bigger bullet selection for the goats.
Jake, I would like to shoot that .416 of your someday. Seeing is beleiving.

As I probably mentioned several times on various occasions, mine is a Tikka M65, .300 Win Mag, weighing about 9 1/2 lbs scoped. The rifle handles well, and I have no issue with it except for that it adds about 3 unnecessary pounds to a load that is already heavy. I'm looking at acquiring or building a lightweight .308 Win instead. Now before some wise crack tells me to lose weight from my carcass first, I've never weighed more than 135 lbs in my life. Any lighter and they'd call me a corpse. With knees that seem to get weaker all the time, I'm looking at losing weight from my pack. That said, the old Tikka has been on many ridges, and if I can't find my checkbook any time soon, she'll be on a few more this fall.

Frans

quote:

Originally posted by akrange:
Olguy: I think we must change your handle to GOguy you've earned it...
AK

Getting onto this a bit late, but I faced pretty much the same situation on my first serious sheep hunt. This was a fly-in, then horseback up into the higher stuff.

The summer before I did this, I had the opportunity to try out three purpose-built sheep rifles. The owner of these had been bitten by the sheep bug early on and had a Grand Slam - two of his rifles were Brown Precision (280 and 280AI) and the other an Ultralite Arms 270, and all had fixed-power Zeiss scopes. Thanks to his generosity, we spent two afternoons at the range and burned up lots of his ammo.

In the end, I never got comfortable with any of these little jewels, and wound up taking my trusty old Mark V Weatherby 270 WMag. The extra three pounds or so was in no way a show-stopper, and might well have helped when the shot had to be taken from 360 yards.

This is of course not meant to suggest you do not need at least one more new rifle -

quote:

Originally posted by EDMHUNTER:
I am thinking about a 708 in Rem Ti. Do you think this would make a good sheep gun?

The Ti or a Kimber Montana in 7mm-08 would make a great sheep and goat gun in Alaska. Wife has a Kimber 84M Classic in 7mm-08 topped with a Leupold FX II 6x36. It weighs a little over 6 lbs all up and it shoots like a dream.

Presently a 257 Roberts with any 115-120 gr would be my sheep rifle. While the Roberts would kill any sheep on earth my 30 Gibbs with 165 Horn is my planned goat rifle.

I,m hopeing to do a sheep hunt this fall .. My first and maybe only ... If I can get a nice ram that will be my lifetime sheep . .... I will prolly use my wifes Ruger Compact 308 .... I would prefer a 260 rem .in the Compact .. but the 308 will work fine I,m sure ... Use 130 or 150 gr MRX Barnes ....Or tipped TSX ...

Either is a good choice gumboot, good luck this fall and be sure to post some pics too.

I am a new member, and this is my first-ever post to this forum.

After reviewing this thread, I agree with the favorable comments by Fourtyonesix regarding rifles built by Melvin Forbes at New Ultralight Arms. I own four NULA rifles: .223, .270 Win., .300 Win. and .338 Win. They are the most accurate, durable and comfortable hunting rifles I have ever used for hunting Alaska and elsewhere thanks to a very straight stock, wide butt, crisp Timney trigger and outstanding build quality. For years I criticized featherweight, synthetic stock rifles without having owned one; but a friend who knew Melvin Forbes well persuaded me to order a NULA .270 Win. In short order, most of my fancy Dakota rifles were up for sale. I now use one of these four NULA rifles for nearly all of my N. American hunting.

I must admit I ordered my 6.5 pound (with scope) NULA .338 with some trepidation. I had previously owned two Win. M70 wood stocked .338s. They both kicked the snot out of me and were quickly sold. I much preferred shooting my Dakota .375 H&H. Well, shooting the NULA .338 turned out to be a piece of cake, and it is now the gun I automatically reach for on any Alaskan hunt, including sheep and goat.

Based on personal experience, I can easily believe an under-7-pound NULA .416 could be more comfortable to shoot than another 9+ pound rifle in the same caliber with more drop in the wood stock.

By the way, Kimber hired Melvin Forbes as a consultant when it designed the stock on its Montana model. The shape and general dimensions of the Montana stock are very similar to a NULA rifle -- either one would be a good choice for Waterrat in .270, .30-06 or .300.

My two cents.

Damn good question. I was taken against my will on a sheep hunt to repay me for good deeds I had done in the past. About four hours after we started I wished for my .500 Schuler Jumbo a sundowner and warm weather. By the time this trip was over I understood the saying "no good deed goes unpunished". Based on that miserable experience I would recommend Kung-Fu fighting Cape buffalo over sheep hunting.

Lightest weight rifle, biggest caliber and highest magnification scope.

FWIW,
I just weighed my new Win Model 70 in 7-08 yesterday. Out of the box it weighs 6 pounds 10 ounces.

I've spent a few years guiding Goats along with Stone & Dall sheep, and without question recommend a "lighter" rifle.

I own a Mark Bansner Sheep hunter. Its a 300 Win. Mag & weighs in at 6lbs 2oz. field ready. I love this gun, and just like anything else, if you commit to shooting it, you would do fine. I dont mind the recoil at all. I did a NWT Caribou hunt last fall, and am very glad I took it along.

But dont fool yourself into thinking you need a magnum. I personally would rather have one for said rifle (espcially for Goat), but its not necessarily needed. I would gladly take a 7-08 or 260 Rem & trudge around the hills with it, and be fully confident of 90% of any "Sheep shot" offered to me.

As far as optics on this rig, mine wears a Vari XIII 2.5-8. Thats about the biggest I would go, but a 3.5-10X40 would do well too.