I have a brown bear hunt planned for fall of 2012. I have either rifle to take. I will shoot a 200g TSX and the 400g TSX bullet in these rifles. Which rifle do I take?

chronic

If you shoot it well take the rigby. Brown bears are big tough animals, of course they can be killed with the 300 RUM as well. One point worth considering is the distance you will shoot at - ask the outfitter.

he said less than 100yds, the max he will allow a shot is 200yds.

chronic

Either will do the job. One thing I would consider is the chance of a non target opportunity on wolf or other animal that might be over 100 yards. For 100 yards the 416 would get the nod simply because bigger is always better.

Anthoer consideration is hunt type. I'd take a lighter 300 RUM any day if there was a lot of hiking or packing involved. There is a huge difference between an 8 pound 300 RUM and 11-12 pound 416 if your climbing a lot or hiking many miles a day. If your riding in a boat most of the time go with whatever you shoot better.

I would take the classic: +1 for the Rigby!

agree with the weight issue, and depending on where your bear hunt is, if its gonna be wet, i'd run something stainless and synthetic so i don't sit there all day watching my beauty of a gun rust and get dinged up, if you care about that kinda stuff. either caliber is more than fine, i don't even think the caliber should be one of the questions....which gun you like to carry and shoot the best...is the winner.
PS a .270 win works fine too....

I also would agree with the weight issue, and would add to that, handeling. I used a Model 70 in .300 Win mag for my 91/2 footer taken near Cold Bay Alaska. Three additionsl Bears appeared, all within 50 yards, at the shot that were unaware of our presence until the shot, which was a bang flop, dead Bear. The party of four were tagged for three Bears and followed through with two more Bears dead after nine additional shots, the fourth Bear escaping with it's life leaving ten pound pieces of sod flying in the air behind it. I gained a lot of respect that day about the speed, strength and speed of a huge Bear. Since that experience I have hunted several times in Big Bear country with a .340 Wby and now a .358 STA. I have also shot extensively a .416 Rem and .416 Rigby, the former for Cape Buffalo in the Selous, the later in practice for later hunts. My top attribute for a rifle in Big Bear country taken from my experience there is handeling ability and speed of use with accuracy. My .340 Wby and .358 STA in Model 70 are both much quicker handeling than both my .416's, no contest. That would certainly be my reason for taking them on my next hunt for the Big bruins, instead of the .416's. Those extra pounds, thicker grips, etc now mean a lot to me, when I think of an tight situation. Good shooting.

If you can shoot the Rigby - take it.

It will be a "canoe" hunt in section 6, not sure what letter designation. I have shot the RUM a lot. It is an environment tough gun, with a black coating, H-S precision stock and 3 position safety. It started out as a Rem. SPS. The 416 is a Ruger with very nice walnut and a quarter rib. I have not shot it much. I will start practicing this week with some Speer 350g loads. I will see how I shoot it. I don't mind the heavy recoil. With the exception being the bench work!

chronic

unit 6 is wet, nasty, brushy and sandy in some areas, not sure who your outfitter is, i've guided down there quiet a bit for several different guys. you'll get wet and more than likely stay wet. go with the RUM. canoe?

That Ruger will be HEAVY when slogging around in swampy brushy country. My 300 RUM started as a SPS too but I've lightened it up as much as I can. Tips the scales right at 7lb 10oz now. If I could make it any lighter I would.

Recoil is momentary, gravity is constant!



My two go to rifles. 375 RUM on top 300 Rum on bottom. Just about twins weighing 7 lbs 10 oz and 7 lbs 11oz, the 375 being the lighter of the two.

I shoot Barnes TSX and TTSX exclusively out of my rums and have been very happy with them. The 168gr TSX or TTSX @ 3340fps is my go to load in the 300 RUM and it has proven itself on several big game animals. Haven't stopped one of those 168 TSX bullets yet including a stem to stern shot on a bull moose at 180 yards, thats 5+ feet of penetration.

Take and shoot the one that YOU have the most confidence in your abilities with.

Based on my very limited experience (one) hunting brown bear I wouldn't take any of my guns. I would go buy a Ruger Alaskan 375, use the hell out of it and bring it home and sell it after the hunt. One bear hunt equals ten safaris when it comes to beating up your guns. Have fun!!!!!

"One bear hunt equals ten safaris when it comes to beating up your guns"
lol i love that, so true, same goes for any other gear you have!

bear_78, lighten up the scope set up and shorten those barrels a bit might drop you another half pound?

Agree with the comments confidence. I also have very little experience with big bears (1 hunt, 1 kill) but how I remember feeling when i saw that bear was wanting him DRT NOW. Not cause of fear but cause there's your trophy, maybe trophy of a lifetime, and you want him to drop on the spot not a long and nerve-racking track. Take the one you're 100% confident will put him down then and there.

the 300 rum will kill the brown bear but you got to make the shot. I killed a 9'3" brown near Yakutat with a heart shot 340 wtb 225 barnes tsx, he still went 100 yards, lucky he was still on the beach.
If I had it to do over I would have purchased a 375. You make a sub standard shot with a 30 cal and there will be lots of intense tracking in thick thick brush. Make the same shot with 375 or larger and you will have a happier guide!

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
"One bear hunt equals ten safaris when it comes to beating up your guns"
lol i love that, so true, same goes for any other gear you have!

bear_78, lighten up the scope set up and shorten those barrels a bit might drop you another half pound?

Those RUMS need every bit of barrel length they can get. As for alaska being hard on gear I have seen guns rust before my eyes. My dad brought a high gloss blued wood stocked rifle up on a moose hunt and it didn't fare well at all. it was an airboat based hunt so fine mist is always in the air constantly soaking your rifle. Stainless is a bonus, nitride is great and good old parkerize doesn't do too badly either.

gotcha bear78, never had a rum so i wasn't sure if shortening was an option....ya i've watched guns speed rust too!! seen guys freak out watching it too! lol

Why not use a 300 gr TSX out of the Rigby .. . . Easy to shoot .. flat shooting and it will flatten bearsand ya don't have to wait for the perfect angle foryour shot.

Seems to me either cartridge would be more than sufficient so the question would be to weather proof or not?

A heavy tsx from the RUM I would think would fold up a bear like a well oiled hinge.

I like the idea of the 300g TSX for the 416. Also, I see Barnes is making a 200g "VLD style" TSX in 30 cal, plus other calibers. That will be my new bullet for that RUM. We are contacting the guide to see if we can do a moose hunt at the same time? If the moose is a go, I am leaning toward the RUM. I shot the Rigby Tuesday, off hand on a stick not too bad for recoil, less than I remember. Will need lots more practice. Did some load work for the 400g, tried 96 and 97 grains of H4831. The 96g shot a 2 inch group and 4" for the other (100yds). Going to try 99g and 100g tomorrow. On the bench I used a MTM "lead sled" with 25lbs in it. 50% of the time I could not hold onto the forearm it would jump out my hand while being restrained by the sled at the butt.

chronic

If your having that kind of trouble with the 416 then definitely go with the RUM. The 416 is a good gun but those big CZs handle like a 4 foot piece of 4x4. Too long and heavy for what I would like. You might find that the penetration of a 200gr 308 will meet or excel that of a 300gr 416.

My CZ 550s handled very well. After I fitted it to myself .. But I thot his 416 was a Ruger.

30-06 with 220's

"A heavy tsx from the RUM I would think would fold up a bear like a well oiled hinge"

i've never seen a bullet fold them up like that, i've seen placement do it, but never a bullet. never go into a bear hunt expecting a bear to drop on the first shot...always be ready for follow up.

Most of the previous responses provide good information and suggestions. Much of your choice is personal preference. I've taken a number of large brown/grizzly bears and the last three were with a .375 H&H (for two of them) and a .404 Jeff for the last one. If the cover is tight or if the first shot is less than optimal, you will want the larger and heavier bullet/caliber combination AND open sights dead on at fifty yards. If you don't have both, you will probably have an unsettling feeling in your stomach. That is your mortality speaking to you. And you should listen.

quote:

Originally posted by Kelly Gill:
That is your mortality speaking to you. And you should listen.

I am going to have to remember that one!

300 RUM works great on brown bears. A few more months and hope to have another one on the ground.

+1 for the Rigby!

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
"A heavy tsx from the RUM I would think would fold up a bear like a well oiled hinge"

i've never seen a bullet fold them up like that, i've seen placement do it, but never a bullet. never go into a bear hunt expecting a bear to drop on the first shot...always be ready for follow up.

Perhaps I worded my response a little poorly and should have noted the "Well placed,".

In truth I've never seen a bear actually fold up like I wrote earlier, not that I have that much bear hunting experience anyway.

Having said that, I still believe the 300rum to be more than adequate for big brown bear hunting. The tsx is figuratively guaranteed to perform, and at the performance levels the rum operates at, it'll get ugly early for any bear with that well placed shot. I mean seriously, wouldn't most of us expect a 200 or 220g tsx to expand to what? 3/4" in diameter and fully penetrate a bear length wise if shot from a rum at a boar/ target 100 or less yards away? Thats like a serious owie.

Gumboot 458 pointed out several years ago that "Brown Bears aren't Elephants," and was very correct to do so. These guys ain't thick skinned african dg and do not require the cartridge performance levels a black rhino does. As if I'd know anything about that.

To me the obvious benefit of using the 300rum instead of the 416 is the difference in rifle finish. "Nice walnut," was how the 416 was described and a canoe hunt in unit 6 is going to very possibly reduce the luster of that stocks finish.

what gets me is how much guys worry about the finish on a rifle, i dont purposly get salt water on mine but once im out of a boat so what if it gets a few scratches and looks like its seen a few hunts,
are you saving it so somebody can sell it for a few more bucks after you croak
anybody can hunt with a 300
like gumboot says use lite bullets in the 416
might actually be a better bear load
its a whole lot cooler to watch a 416 hit something than a 300
if im going to waste ammo that can cost 20 bucks a shot it sure wouldnt be on paper
it would be on a bear

I don't think your wrong, but as a metaphor, if you owned an original work by Picasso or Van Gough would you let your son hang it in his dorm room? Duct tape it on the hood of his pickup truck? Seems to me some possesions are worthy of some kinds of preservation. Nothing I own mind you.

Mebbe the Ruger mentioned above isn't deserving of special protection and ok, fine. On the other hand, the OP seemed to think the wood looks nice and he owns a different and capable weather resistant rifle.

I used a .338 on a 27 3/8" skull brownie at 15 yds and didn't feel under gunned. If I were in the alders looking for a bear with the 300 rum I'd feel as safe as if I were carrying a .470.

I don't know which one would be best as they both work, but I sure would go to the 350 gr. X bullet as opposed to the 400 gr. They just seem to perform better on all large animals..I think the 400 gr. tends to yaw in some riflings as I have seen signs of that..and you will get quicker kills on soft skinned animals like bear with the 350s or at least I know you will on Afican Lion and they are about the same from a kill standpoint.

Scott, you are right, of course.

OTOH, there is nothing wrong with taking care of your tools. A little attention goes a long way. I have heard stories here about guns that rusted before one's eyes, and others where a little grease or preservative kept a rifle in perfect condition.

I am with you, of course. The goal is the hunt and the experience, not the weapon. Life is too short.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I don't think your wrong, but as a metaphor, if you owned an original work by Picasso or Van Gough would you let your son hang it in his dorm room? Duct tape it on the hood of his pickup truck? Seems to me some possesions are worthy of some kinds of preservation. Nothing I own mind you.

Mebbe the Ruger mentioned above isn't deserving of special protection and ok, fine. On the other hand, the OP seemed to think the wood looks nice and he owns a different and capable weather resistant rifle.

I used a .338 on a 27 3/8" skull brownie at 15 yds and didn't feel under gunned. If I were in the alders looking for a bear with the 300 rum I'd feel as safe as if I were carrying a .470.

quote:

Originally posted by Anjin:
Scott, you are right, of course.

OTOH, there is nothing wrong with taking care of your tools. A little attention goes a long way. I have heard stories here about guns that rusted before one's eyes, and others where a little grease or preservative kept a rifle in perfect condition.

I am with you, of course. The goal is the hunt and the experience, not the weapon. Life is too short.

I hope lots of folks caught the post that .458 win made in which he wrote that he thought the 220g -06 bullet penetrated on par with the 300g .375. Thats an incredible piece of info and when combined with his sig line regarding the -06 and marksmanship I'd hope lots of folks would re think their "bigger is better," mentality. I don't think the fellow is advising from any other position than experience.

Yes I did use a .458 myself this year and last year used a 9.3, the year before a .375, but not because I felt under gunned when previously using a 30 cal with great sucess.

Recently theres been some pictures posted of rifles that in my mind border on the edge of too pretty to hunt with. Were the original 350 Rigby to be pitted under salt water conditions, bent in an air wreck or smashed beneath a horse or car wreck well thats that. Bent original Rigbys can't be repaired. Replaced yes, but that barrel is headed for the scrap heap.

Why? Why do that? For most of us here theres almost certainly a good useable tool/ rifle right along side that art/ historic piece that'd perform quite well after being retrieved from the bottom of the canoe or creek.

For what it is worth. Either rifle would be fine just boils down to your personal choice. But in my expierence as a hunter and a guide bears hit with 30 cal magnums shooting 180 and 200 grain swift A-frames knocked bears flatter than any other combination, the effects on the animals were very noticeable when hit with that combo. I have witnessed bears hit with far larger calibers and heavily constructed bullets where the bear showed almost no sign of being hit; that was never the case with the 200 grain A-frame at about 3000fps. When that bullet hit there was no doubt. I have my ideas of why but those opinions are not exact science.

Big bear big bullet. 400gr will crush the bear and shoot out to 300+ yds. But accuracy
has alot to do with it.

Mike

I'd trade them both in and get a 30-06. The 30-06 has most likely killed as many big bears as any cal.
That said, I'd take the one you have the most confidence in. Myself, I use a .375H&H for most everything, unless I'm in the mountains, then I carry a .300WM. The WM has accounted for several bears.

30-06 with 200 grain Nosler Partition would get the job done just fine so I think your 300 RUM should work.
I think, I would use the Nosler Partition bullet, they have never been known to not work.

My last bear was with a .300 WM. Hit them correctly and they all go down.

Shoot what you shoot the best.