Is a 300 gr Barnes TSX at 2604 fps from a 375 H&H too tough a projectile for Brown bear?

Is the load I worked up for Africa with my Winchester M70 Stainless steel Classic CRF rifle. Gave. Have enough left for another hunt.

Oh heck no it's not to much!

One of these days I'd like to run one of those end for end on a moose or bear. I've used the more or less 300g stuff for a while now and it seems like a broadside pass through is normal. If I can get a bull or bear to head on me I'm gonna try to get it to exit the tail.

I shot a brown bear in Alaska last year with the 300 gr. TSX and it worked fine. The first shot anchored him in his tracks, but he was still alive. I put 2 more in and he was done. The first shot hit the shoulder and spine. We found the bullet in all that bone. The other 2 were also in the shoulder. 1 did not exit but we could not find it. The third bullet went clear through. The 3 bullets all hit in about a 4 inch group in the shoulder. I also shot a black bear with the same load. It ran about 25 yards. The bullet went clear through the black bear.

They work perfectly. Big bears stop a lot of bullets and even if it manages to exit, two holes bleed more than one !

That last recommendation is all you need

quote:

Originally posted by robert lerner:
That last recommendation is all you need

I'll second that. Phil is the go-to!

I shot a brown bear in Russia in 2009 with 300gr TSX bullets in my 375 H&H. First shot into the lungs and a pass through. Got his adrenaline going as he rolled and took off running parallel to me and the guide. Second shot into the lungs again and rolled him but up and running again. 3rd shot into the shoulders. Rolled him again and he got up running, but struggling. 4th shot in the shoulders anchored him.

Reloaded before we walked up. Appeared dead but when I reached out to touch the eye with my barrel, he raised his head and snapped at my guide. I plugged him again at about 2 feet.

So yeah, 300gr TSX in a 375 H&H isn't too much for them.

BTW, I recovered the 2 shoulder shot bullets. I posted them before but I think that was on Photobucket and no longer available. I'll see if I can dig out the photos and post again but they were the typical "X" shape and retained all their original weight.

Take Phils advise, Hes been in the bear shooting business for a lifetime and knows from whence he comes!!! but be sure you can handle the recoil, better a 06 that you can shoot than a big bore that makes one flinch.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Take Phils advise, Hes been in the bear shooting business for a lifetime and knows from whence he comes!!! but be sure you can handle the recoil, better a 06 that you can shoot than a big bore that makes one flinch.

Funny you say that, Ray. My guide on Kodiak, Max Schwab, carried a 30-06 as his back up rifle. My outfitter, Lynn Castle, carried a 300 Magnum. They both thought 30 caliber bullets were plenty. I think they must have reads Phil’s tagline about the effectiveness of the 30-06.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

Funny you say that, Ray. My guide on Kodiak, Max Schwab, carried a 30-06 as his back up rifle. My outfitter, Lynn Castle, carried a 300 Magnum. They both thought 30 caliber bullets were plenty. I think they must have reads Phil’s tagline about the effectiveness of the 30-06.

Yikes......those hunts were long ago.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Take Phils advise, Hes been in the bear shooting business for a lifetime and knows from whence he comes!!! but be sure you can handle the recoil, better a 06 that you can shoot than a big bore that makes one flinch.

Funny you say that, Ray. My guide on Kodiak, Max Schwab, carried a 30-06 as his back up rifle. My outfitter, Lynn Castle, carried a 300 Magnum. They both thought 30 caliber bullets were plenty. I think they must have reads Phil’s tagline about the effectiveness of the 30-06.

But then Phil carry's a 458 WM as his stopper.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Take Phils advise, Hes been in the bear shooting business for a lifetime and knows from whence he comes!!! but be sure you can handle the recoil, better a 06 that you can shoot than a big bore that makes one flinch.

Funny you say that, Ray. My guide on Kodiak, Max Schwab, carried a 30-06 as his back up rifle. My outfitter, Lynn Castle, carried a 300 Magnum. They both thought 30 caliber bullets were plenty. I think they must have reads Phil’s tagline about the effectiveness of the 30-06.

But then Phil carry's a 458 WM as his stopper.

That I do, especially on fall hunts along streams where the vegetation is dense!
But on spring hunts I often carry something with a little flatter trajectory, like a 375 ot 9.3x62
Although I have stopped a few serious charges with my 30-06 and 200 & 220 gr Partitions

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Take Phils advise, Hes been in the bear shooting business for a lifetime and knows from whence he comes!!! but be sure you can handle the recoil, better a 06 that you can shoot than a big bore that makes one flinch.

Funny you say that, Ray. My guide on Kodiak, Max Schwab, carried a 30-06 as his back up rifle. My outfitter, Lynn Castle, carried a 300 Magnum. They both thought 30 caliber bullets were plenty. I think they must have reads Phil’s tagline about the effectiveness of the 30-06.

But then Phil carry's a 458 WM as his stopper.

That I do, especially on fall hunts along streams where the vegetation is dense!
But on spring hunts I often carry something with a little flatter trajectory, like a 375 ot 9.3x62
Although I have stopped a few serious charges with my 30-06 and 200 & 220 gr Partitions

OK, Phil, that brings back another memory of backup guns in your neck of the woods. I hunted Moose & Caribou with John & Tyler Swiss in September of 1981. Lots of Brownies on the streams where we moose hunted from around Black Lake and out toward the Bering Sea. I was on a small caliber kick at the time, so I brought a 270 for moose hunting in Brown Bear country. John and Tyler carried 338’s. After seeing a couple different Brownies fairly close on streams, that 270 felt like a BB gun in my hands. So did their 338’s as far as I was concerned.

"DLS"......have you read John Swiss's Book.....???

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskan Sourdough:
"DLS"......have you read John Swiss's Book.....???

No, but sounds like I need to. John was a hell of a good pilot. His area on the peninsula was very good for big bears. I knew a handful of hunters that took great bears with him in the 1970’s and 80’s.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskan Sourdough:
"DLS"......have you read John Swiss's Book.....???

No, but sounds like I need to. John was a hell of a good pilot. His area on the peninsula was very good for big bears. I knew a handful of hunters that took great bears with him in the 1970’s and 80’s.

It is available on Amazon. The "content" is good, The writing is flat.

Im sure there have been hundreds if not thousands of the big bears killed with the 30-06, and its a sure killer, but "perhaps" not a "sure" stopper, and note I say perhaps..I know and have seen both Cape buffalo and Elephant as well as Lion, Hippo and Leopard killed with the 06 and know of an Elephant kill with a 44 magnum and another with a 7x57. the size of a hole in any animals brain is not critical.

The bottom line is the last nut behind the stock must be in good working order..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Im sure there have been hundreds if not thousands of the big bears killed with the 30-06, and its a sure killer, but "perhaps" not a "sure" stopper, and note I say perhaps..I know and have seen both Cape buffalo and Elephant as well as Lion, Hippo and Leopard killed with the 06 and know of an Elephant kill with a 44 magnum and another with a 7x57. the size of a hole in any animals brain is not critical.

The bottom line is the last nut behind the stock must be in good working order..

Ray as you well know, it's always the Indian , not the arrow !

quote:

Ray as you well know, it's always the Indian , not the arrow !

Now if we could convince the gun grabbers of that.

But their main objective is to take our guns.

Crime is a useful tool for them.

Took care of Don Johnson, Master Guide, in 1989 in Soldotna when he was hospitalized. He carried a 7RemMag. I think he subscribed to the Phil "it's the arrow not the indian" philosophy.

A high percentage of guides used to carry the 30-06, a few used 270's & 7 mags and quite a number like the various 300's.
But those were the "good old days" when the bears were larger and bullets softer.

We really are spoiled today with a plethora of big calibers and superb bullets.

And I just learned that since 1980 there have been 4 Kodiak & 4 Alaska peninsula bears taken with skulls measuring over 30"

quote:

We really are spoiled today with a plethora of big calibers and superb bullets

I would add not only big bores.

But better bullets across all the calibers.

Have improved.

Wow. Thirty-inchers! Did not realize just how huge these critters can get.

300 grain TSX out of 375 H&H is great Brown Bear/Moose Medicine. It all comes down to bullet placement.

It is my philosophy if the animal can eat you or otherwise ruin your weekend there is never to much bullet

Phil:

I think Oliver Cameron carried a modified Savage
99, if I am not mistaken. He lived about 12 miles below my homestead "bear magnet" cabin -close to Ose Mountain, below Wien Lake. His may have been in 300 Savage or 303 British.

My last moose was taken with an older Model 71
in 348 Ackley Imp, with 270 gr Hawk bullet.
But I knew they were not near water, and still wanted to anchor the animal. The 348 AI is like a 35 Whelen, with very fast repeat shots if Mr. Griz shows up to dispute ownership.

The Griffin and Howe sidemount is an excellent rig to use iron sights or the Lyman 48 WJS on an early Model 70. I have a M-70 in 338-06 with both a Lyman and Leupold Alaskan as backups on this rig.
Scopes slip off & on while maintaining zero.

Marriott

quote:

Originally posted by 450 Fuller:
Phil:

I think Oliver Cameron carried a modified Savage
99, if I am not mistaken. He lived about 12 miles below my homestead "bear magnet" cabin -close to Ose Mountain, below Wien Lake. His may have been in 300 Savage or 303 British.

My last moose was taken with an older Model 71
in 348 Ackley Imp, with 270 gr Hawk bullet.
But I knew they were not near water, and still wanted to anchor the animal. The 348 AI is like a 35 Whelen, with very fast repeat shots if Mr. Griz shows up to dispute ownership.

The Griffin and Howe sidemount is an excellent rig to use iron sights or the Lyman 48 WJS on an early Model 70. I have a M-70 in 338-06 with both a Lyman and Leupold Alaskan as backups on this rig.
Scopes slip off & on while maintaining zero.

Marriott

Oliver's much modified and slimmed down Savage 99 was a 303 Savage if I remember correctly. I have a great photo I took of him holding it.

Our cabin was only a few miles north of his at the foot of Ose Mtn on the Wein Lake drainage.
The cabin burnt down years ago but we still have the Homestead deed to 5 acres. With all this new Homestead movement I probably should consider selling it.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Take Phils advise, Hes been in the bear shooting business for a lifetime and knows from whence he comes!!! but be sure you can handle the recoil, better a 06 that you can shoot than a big bore that makes one flinch.

Funny you say that, Ray. My guide on Kodiak, Max Schwab, carried a 30-06 as his back up rifle. My outfitter, Lynn Castle, carried a 300 Magnum. They both thought 30 caliber bullets were plenty. I think they must have reads Phil’s tagline about the effectiveness of the 30-06.

But then Phil carry's a 458 WM as his stopper.

Thought Phil's go-to was a Jeffrey .404, no?

Is a extra 100 grains into a 800-1000lb animal to much?!

Might want to be asking if you could even tell a difference. I run 350tsx out of my 416 and don’t notice it being any different from say a 225tsx from my 338. Our 308 with 150grn also seems to work just fine. I don’t think anything you can push out of a shoulder mounted rifle is gonna be “to much” for a big brown bear.

I have alway held a fascination with firearms and this year marked my 43rd year of guiding brown bear hunters. Along with summers guiding fishermen and living most of the year on our remote Homestead in the center of a wildlife refuge I have dealt with a lot of brown bears!
During the majority of that time I was also testing guns and writing for various shooting and hunting publications.
If I have learned anything it's that with a little knowledge, skill and luck, one can make do with most any firearm. Even truculent dangerous ones !
Shot placement always trumps power! And Bullet performance trumps bore size.
I have killed charging bears with numerous calibers from the 9mm handgun to the 505 Gibbs, yet I certainly don't recommend either for that purpose.

The 30-06 remains my all around favorite caliber and with heavy premium bullets works quite well on even the largest bruins.
But my choice for a stopping round when I have to wrinkle a wounded bear from the pucker brush is my 458 Win.

I just ordered a copy from Abe's Books,
There's 4 left, delivered for $16.15.

I'm stocking up reading material for winter.

Thanks for mentioning it.

George

I just ordered a copy from Abe's Books,
There's 4 left, like new it says. delivered for $16.15.

I'm stocking up reading material for winter.

Thanks for mentioning it.

George

One can kill a lot of game with smaller then normally recommended calibers.

I have done it so have many others.

But after 6 decades of killing things. I have come to prefer. Calibers that well get the job done even if the shot isn't just perfect.

I also have come to like using heavier for caliber bullets.