Have a discussion going on elsewhere. Plus have a need to know regarding the .45 acp on bears.

Any one have factual knowledge of a std .45 acp FMJ RN load or other load....being used on a big bear?

Same goes for the .357 SIG. Anyone use one on a bear?

Thanks in advance.

FN in MT

Last summer in AK A guy used his 45 acp to kill a charing grizzly. A few years back a guy used a 9mm to stop a brown bear when he was samon fishing.

Any gun is better then no gun.

The .45 acp info is EXACTLY what I need.

Any idea as to ammo used?

FN in MT

I'm not discounting anything anyone has said, but I have heard stories of brown bears being killed in some of the villages with a .22lr. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. The current train of thought around here (Kodiak) is nothing smaller than 44 Mag. with 454's being very popular. I carry a .480 Ruger, the .454's recoil is just a bit more than I like. That being said I have never shot (nor know anyone who has shot)a bear with a handgun.

The bear that was killed in Denali Park in May 2010 was shot "about 9 times" with a 45 ACP by hikers when it came out of the brush along Tattler Creek. The two hikers left the area, apparently not knowing whether or not the bear had died. That was left up to Park Service and three Rangers found the bear the next evening about 100 feet from the expended shell casings. There was no mention of the exact bullet used.

So, if you are asking if the 45 ACP is capable of defense in the presence of the big bears this story alone would not give me great comfort. To me bear defense starts with the 44 and only with the 300 gr WFN (wide flat nose) style of VERY hard cast bullets. Bone breakers!

If you are only asking if it might kill a bear I can point out two guys with 22LR's that were successful. That certainly doesn't mean it would be my weapon of choice, however.

Not the info you're looking for but kind of interesting. Last weekend a brown bear, about 8 1/2 squared, was killed by a couple of duck hunters south of Anchorage. 12 shots of #4 shot put the charging bear down.

Will the 45ACP work? I think it's all a question of launching it from the right platform. This gives me a warm fuzzy feeling!



Cheers,
Bob

Looking for factual accounts of the .45 acp specifically, or other handgun rds being used on a bear.

NOT looking for suggestions on what to carry. Thats already been beaten to death.

Thanks,

FN in MT

quote:

Originally posted by FN in Montana:
Looking for factual accounts of the .45 acp specifically, or other handgun rds being used on a bear.

NOT looking for suggestions on what to carry. Thats already been beaten to death.

Thanks,

FN in MT

As you are probably aware, at the beginning of shed season here (Seeley Lake) a man and grizzly had a territorial discussion, the man firing three 44 Magnum rounds into the bear (do not know ammunition specifics) to dissuade her from staying in the area.

The bear was not killed by the man.

Rangers killed the bear later in the day.
***
I have carried in the past Freedom Arms 475 Linebaugh six inch and my custom Ruger SRH 480 4.75 inch. Both were loaded as 476/400/1150. Because I weigh 130 pounds, I have down-graded.

When woods walking in Lolo National Forest now, I now carry Freedom Arms 45 Colt as 45/300/1250 - and I wear track shoes.

Hope this helps.

why not do your own research? Bear season opens on the 25th. Come on up and bring your 1911. Not saying it won't work, but if it does not don't worry, our hospital is pretty good for it's size.

quote:

Originally posted by Alasken:
Not the info you're looking for but kind of interesting. Last weekend a brown bear, about 8 1/2 squared, was killed by a couple of duck hunters south of Anchorage. 12 shots of #4 shot put the charging bear down.

Just got the story and digitals of this forwarded from a MT F&G employee from one of the guys who killed the bear...also an F&G biologist but in AK.

Shows how quickly these things can happen.

Appreciate your input...same for Guns68.

Many years back I was involved in the investigation a double grizzly fatality in Glacier NP. Sobering as hell to see fellow humans in front of you...killed by an ANIMAL! VERY sobering.

Been around many dead bodies but when they are a result of war or a vehicle crash ...thats another emotion. We think that WE are the top rung on the ladder,with our big brains and technology. Not so in the big bears home turf.

I carry a 4" .41 mag with hardcast 240 gr Keith style slugs over a healthy dose of 2400. Or one of my Freedom Arms in .454 with 350 gr WFN LBT cast slugs...when I'm in grizzly country.

FN in MT

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:

quote:

Originally posted by FN in Montana:
Looking for factual accounts of the .45 acp specifically, or other handgun rds being used on a bear.

NOT looking for suggestions on what to carry. Thats already been beaten to death.

Thanks,

FN in MT

As you are probably aware, at the beginning of shed season here (Seeley Lake) a man and grizzly had a territorial discussion, the man firing three 44 Magnum rounds into the bear (do not know ammunition specifics) to dissuade her from staying in the area.

The bear was not killed by the man.

Rangers killed the bear later in the day.
***
I have carried in the past Freedom Arms 475 Linebaugh six inch and my custom Ruger SRH 480 4.75 inch. Both were loaded as 476/400/1150. Because I weigh 130 pounds, I have down-graded.

When woods walking in Lolo National Forest now, I now carry Freedom Arms 45 Colt as 45/300/1250 - and I wear track shoes.

Hope this helps.

Yes I heard that one as well. The story I heard a few weeks ago from an F&G employee was that NONE of the .44 hits were to a vital area. An ass hit with anything is near worthless.

I agree on the Freedom Arms goodness as well. I've got a pair of them and really like them.

FN in MT

This is not exactly what you asked for but it may offer some insight when you consider various .45acp loads. I once shot a deer that went down, but not out, from a shoulder and lung shot. When I approached the deer I found it laying on its stomach, head-up, dazed and dying but still with a lot of life left in him. I used my .45acp 1911 to put him down. I shot from his front for the heart but it didn't phase him. I then gave him a second toward the heart from the side and he slowly collapsed and expired. Upon examination, I discovered the .45acp bullets had penetrated about 8"-10" and there were fragments everywhere. The loads I was using were Winchester Ranger 230grn SXT. Advertisements show those bullets producing mushrooms with perfect, sharply pointed, star-like petals. But at 10-15 feet on a deer the petals were all broken off and penetration was less than stellar. I still carry a 1911 in the woods but now I load it with 185gr truncated FMJ ammo. I don't know how that will do on a bear, cougar, coyote, or deer but it's got to penetrate better than the Winchester STX. Hope this helps. It will be interesting to see where this thread goes.

Grenadier,

Your experience with the Ranger SXT 230 gr ammo mirrors mine on deer. I shot a lot of wounded deer and the several times I used the SXT ammo the penetration was less than inspiring. I got a bunch of it from my local FBI guys....maybe they had switched to something else due to poor performance?

Years back I loaded some near +P 230 gr loads with the Hornady 230 gr FMJ flat nose slug. Those worked VERY well on deer out of a 5" 1911. IIRC they crono'd at 910 fps. Worked very well on frontal or side (ear) head shots.

Dispatched a mature bull elk with a frontal head shot with that load too. He had a broken back and would follow you with his head...could not get an ear shot.

I agree with many here that the .45 acp isn't the optimal carry gun in grizzly country...but not everyone can afford a Freedom Arms in .454 or even a 10mm auto. So they carry what they have. Or what they can control.

FN in MT

One has to remember that people grade defensive rounds are designed to work on people and do certain things.

8 to 10 inchs and fragments well stop a lot of people. Well kill deer and other same sized critters well with double lung or head shots Might not be the best for large furry critters

I tend to carry tougher bullets when I am out in the woods then when Iam in town. But if I have my Glock 40 loaded with 165 gr Rem golden sabers I'll empty the mag into the bear if needed.

Some might say it took all 13 to stop it. No Its all I had in the gun thats why they made repeaters.

Ammo is cheap I tend to shoot more then once.

The ideal of a one shot stop is a myth nice when it happens but not a sure thing.

Any gun is better then no gun carry and use what you have. Some just have more options then others.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in Montana:

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:

quote:

Originally posted by FN in Montana:
Looking for factual accounts of the .45 acp specifically, or other handgun rds being used on a bear.

NOT looking for suggestions on what to carry. Thats already been beaten to death.

Thanks,

FN in MT

As you are probably aware, at the beginning of shed season here (Seeley Lake) a man and grizzly had a territorial discussion, the man firing three 44 Magnum rounds into the bear (do not know ammunition specifics) to dissuade her from staying in the area.

The bear was not killed by the man.

Rangers killed the bear later in the day.
***
I have carried in the past Freedom Arms 475 Linebaugh six inch and my custom Ruger SRH 480 4.75 inch. Both were loaded as 476/400/1150. Because I weigh 130 pounds, I have down-graded.

When woods walking in Lolo National Forest now, I now carry Freedom Arms 45 Colt as 45/300/1250 - and I wear track shoes.

Hope this helps.

Yes I heard that one as well. The story I heard a few weeks ago from an F&G employee was that NONE of the .44 hits were to a vital area. An ass hit with anything is near worthless.

I agree on the Freedom Arms goodness as well. I've got a pair of them and really like them.

FN in MT

Dosen't sound like the guy got chewed on it hard to argue with something that worked.

A failure to me is your able to shoot your attacker hit them in vital areas. But they are able to continue with the attack and cause the same damage to you as if they were not shot.

i don't know how comfortable i would be with a 45 acp

I carried my Light Weight Commander in 45 ACP on my first 2 Black bear hunts, in Montana.
I carried it with ball ammo.
I did kill several mountain grouse with 45 ACP Speer shotshells.

I did not kill a bear on the first one but I did kill a 7'3" black bear on the second trip.

Once I saw how much fat they carry, and how big and thick their bones are, I carried a 44 Mag with hard cast bullets on my next 10 black bear hunts in that area.

That area is also known to have a bunch of Griz in it.

In fact on some years I saw more Griz than black bear.

Also I have shot whitetail and mule deer with a 1911 in 45 ACP, and with a 44 mag.

The 44 Mag is a LOT more effective.

Here's the 9mm story from the Russian River:

By Zaz Hollander
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: August 18, 2002)
A fisherman shot and killed a sow grizzly as she charged him in the early morning darkness Saturday on the banks of the Russian River.

The bear surprised Garen Brenner and two friends about 2:30 a.m. as they packed up their gear at one of the Kenai Peninsula's most popular fishing spots, said Larry Lewis, an Alaska Department of Fish and Game wildlife technician on the peninsula.

Brenner heard his friend yell "Bear! Bear!" and looked downriver to see the sow a few yards down the bank eyeing the friend. The bear lost interest in Brenner's friend after he backed into the water and threw his shotgun at her.

But then she turned, looked up at Brenner and lunged, said Lewis, who interviewed the three men Saturday.

Brenner fired at the center of the hulking shape closing to four or five feet away. He fired

twice. The sow, estimated at 400 to 450 pounds, went down. Then Brenner fired three more shots into her head.

He shot the bear with a 9 mm semiautomatic pistol. Lewis said such a low-caliber gun ordinarily doesn't pack enough punch to kill a bear. But Brenner loaded the pistol with full-metal-jacket bullets that penetrated to the bear's vital organs, he said.

"I think that's what saved his bacon," Lewis said.

The bear most likely was protecting her yearling cub, which waited well behind her above the steep bank, wildlife officials said.

After the shooting, the cub ran up and down the bank near its mother's body, bawling in distress. "It would stop and smell the bear, the sow, and then it would go into the water a ways, then it would come back," said Bill Shuster, a wildlife biologist with the U.S. Forest Service.

Local fishing guide Brandon Maes ran into the cub as he fished the Upper Kenai River near its confluence with the Russian. The cub charged, and Maes waded across the swift, chest-deep river to an island. The bear backed off but not before charging the guide's buddies in a boat nearby.

Soon after, Lewis tranquilized the cub, tagged and collared her and moved her to the south side of Skilak Lake.

The encounter was the latest of several close calls between people and bears along Southcentral rivers and streams. The Russian is thick with spawned-out sockeye that draw bears.

Authorities are looking into whether the dead bear is the same sow that attacked a Soldotna mother and son hiking Resurrection Pass Trail on Friday afternoon about three miles from Cooper Landing.

That bear, also accompanied by a cub, raked the mother's face with her claws and bit the son.

Nonetheless, people going into Gwin's store expressed dismay Saturday that Brenner killed the brown bear, said Linda Krack, a Washington state resident working there on Saturday.

"I'm not from here, but locals were pretty angry," Krack said. "Rumor had it, it wasn't necessary, but I sure don't know. I wasn't there. I didn't have it charging after me."

Lewis, who interviewed the fishermen on Saturday, dismissed such criticism. "That's absolute nonsense," he said. "He got a hearty handshake and a 'job well done' for saving himself and his buddies."

"Threw his shotgun at her " ???

I actual go fishing or hunting with people who know how to use a shotgun for shooting.

Throwing shotguns are they something like throwing sticks.

It doesn't say what bore/ gauge the thrown shotgun was, but I guess we can accurately interpret it to have 100% " one-throw stops"?

I need to get one of those. Everything else is so controversial as a fight-stopper.

look up the story of old groaner on the unuk river
he was shot a few times with handgun

10mm with 6" barrel and 200 grain Double Tap brand ammo.

Read an article in an old National Geographic, complete with pics, including the gun, so I give it legitimacy . Was about a Scandinavian, on foot, expedition to the north pole. Polar bear got excessively friendly, so they popped him. Gun was a .357 Mag and the bear never squawked. Interesting they'd mention it, given the tree hugger image of the magazine, even admitting they'd carry Heat on an expedition like this.

If you had to carry a 45 cap I would look at getting a heavier spring and shooting a 230gr hard cast as fast as you can throw it. You should be able to shoot 45 super out of it with a heavier spring.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...8521043/m/6311005461

I carry a 10mm stoked with 200gr FMJ FP @ 1200fps. I know they will go stem to stern on a 6ft black bear and don't doubt they will reach the vitals on a griz if placed right.

Any pistol is a poor replacement for a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
If you had to carry a 45 cap I would look at getting a heavier spring and shooting a 230gr hard cast as fast as you can throw it. You should be able to shoot 45 super out of it with a heavier spring.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...8521043/m/6311005461

I carry a 10mm stoked with 200gr FMJ FP @ 1200fps. I know they will go stem to stern on a 6ft black bear and don't doubt they will reach the vitals on a griz if placed right.

Any pistol is a poor replacement for a rifle.

My carry gun, a Springfield V16 LongSlide built for the 45 Super (230g bullets at 1150 fps and extremely accurate) way small for brown bear but I guess it beats a closed fist or a stick ...