Alaska's NR guide requirement is pretty clearly stated. Any locals know of any loopholes ?

I have a fiend there but no blood relatives within 1st kindred.

I am not sure that you want to hunt with a "fiend".....

Not to be a jackass, but using / getting caught using "loopholes" doesn't fly well with the fish and game folks.

KMule

No loop holes. Don't try it!!! Fish & Feathers will come down hard on you & rightfully so.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:Any locals know of any loopholes ?

Just the one you stick you head thru.

A guide is not required for ALL hunting in Alaska; what game animal do you want to hunt ?

Lots of options available, some research is necessary and recommended.

KMule

wish i had a nickel for every guy i have known that was going to save a bunch of money going hunting in alaska on their own, or with this outfitter they heard about from their 32nd cousin, or this 32 cousin for that matter that all came back cold, wet, gameless, and madder than hell. sorry, but i've spent enough time in that wonderful land to know that i don't know enough to do it myself, or cut corners

All right take it easy. Just wondering.

If in-laws applied I'd be hunting there next year - I'm just one degree of kindred off. SOOOO CLOOOSE.

You know what though, now that I think about it, that law is a bunch of BS. It's like Wyoming law against NR's hunting in wilderness areas without a guide. My folks live near the WYO border near some GREAT elk hunting but I can't do it without a guide thanks to that stupid law.

The main objection I have is that its PUBLIC land. Sure state can regulate seasons and limits to ensure the health of game species, but for them to discriminate like that agianst nonresidents is ridiculous.

If I want to go out by myself risking life and limb, and (more likely) not filling a tag, why not?

Oh, is it because then someone can charge me $12-20,000 to do it? Follow the money...

WS,
I agree wholeheartedly. I think the Needing a guide crap is a bunch of BS. Sure there are places that a guy should have/needs a guide but I feel if a guy wants to go out and kill himself that is his business. I hunt un-guided whenever I can and I enjoy it much better. I am no "pro" by any means and have used guides in some places where it was required such as an African hunt and in Canada. Some of these so called "guides" are a friggin joke and are only used to fill a requirement. Nothing burns my ass worse than having to pay for something that isn't necessary.

I will be moving to Alaska (US ARMY transfer) this coming spring so I will get to eventually hunt as a resident (12 months). The first year I will just hunt the stuff that doesn't require a guide. But I can definitely see where one is required for certain species there. It is a BIG state and access is very limited to most areas unless you have a plane.

Good Luck,
WW

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
You know what though, now that I think about it, that law is a bunch of BS. It's like Wyoming law against NR's hunting in wilderness areas without a guide. My folks live near the WYO border near some GREAT elk hunting but I can't do it without a guide thanks to that stupid law.

The main objection I have is that its PUBLIC land. Sure state can regulate seasons and limits to ensure the health of game species, but for them to discriminate like that agianst nonresidents is ridiculous.

If I want to go out by myself risking life and limb, and (more likely) not filling a tag, why not?

Oh, is it because then someone can charge me $12-20,000 to do it? Follow the money...

like it or not I don't think you are going to change it. You're also not the first to "whine" about it either. You've got lots of option though, marry an Alaskan girl, move to Alaska, or get a better job!

I belive the law states 2nd degree of kindred

IN laws count. But aunts uncles neices and nephews don't. How that makes sense I'll never know.



Brother in law, father in law, step brother or sisters all count.

I can take my dads wife and step kids but I cant take my dads brother.!!!???

I can take my wifes brother or my brothers wife.
But I cant take my dads brother!!!???

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
You know what though, now that I think about it, that law is a bunch of BS. It's like Wyoming law against NR's hunting in wilderness areas without a guide. My folks live near the WYO border near some GREAT elk hunting but I can't do it without a guide thanks to that stupid law.
QUOTE]

If you live across the border from that wilderness area then you should know the reason. It's so some tenderfoot from (insert state at own risk) doesn't go and get him self killed by a grizz in the mountains or lost.

It is unfortunate that it doesn't have a caveat that if your a Ute, Coloradan, Montanan, or Idahooan you can hunt the wildereness areas.

It's a common sense law that decreases the ammount of search and rescue dollars spent in Wyoming.

quote:

Originally posted by HARDBALLER:

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
You know what though, now that I think about it, that law is a bunch of BS. It's like Wyoming law against NR's hunting in wilderness areas without a guide. My folks live near the WYO border near some GREAT elk hunting but I can't do it without a guide thanks to that stupid law.

The main objection I have is that its PUBLIC land. Sure state can regulate seasons and limits to ensure the health of game species, but for them to discriminate like that agianst nonresidents is ridiculous.

If I want to go out by myself risking life and limb, and (more likely) not filling a tag, why not?

Oh, is it because then someone can charge me $12-20,000 to do it? Follow the money...

like it or not I don't think you are going to change it. You're also not the first to "whine" about it either. You've got lots of option though, marry an Alaskan girl, move to Alaska, or get a better job!

Don't tell him to marry and Alaska girl, I am still single and I need all the help I can get!

I have a hard time believeing some of the crap the state spiels about the guide law.

If a man can hunt moose in grizz/brownie country, deal with the gut pile, meat etc with the chance of encountering a bear, thats OK? but yet he cant hunt the same way for a bear? then you take some schmuck (we all have seen them) just cuz they live in this state for 12 months and 1 day and they can hunt whatever they want? who cant even find his ass with both hands, I might add.

Its screwed up. I know alot of folks from outside who are more adapt at hunting up here than some residents I have seen.

Unfortunately its the law, contact the guiding industry.

I think the non-resident's day hunting moose alone are probably numbered. With the drop in moose numbers and the power the guide assn has.

I wonder what the total number of moose killed by non-residents are?

What's crazy is a non-resident can hunt muskox and bison without a guide, deer, black bears, moose, and caribou. Yet, like Joel said gut piles and carrying meat through bear country is all the same. Doesn't make much sense.

Two items: First, moose numbers are not droping. Across Alaska moose continue to expand their traditional or historical range. Ask any game biologist, state or federal. Yeah I know, "...the biologist's don't know anything, all got their heads up their butt's, blah blah blah." I'm sure not going to take the word of some guide from Florida that comes up here for the hunting season and then runs back to Little Havana as fast as he can when he sees the first snow flake.

Second, WS, consider going with a guide. Having been successfully sheep hunting a couple of times, I speak from experience when I tell you it's really hard to process game properly when you don't have resident resources to utilize. A friend came up here from North Dakota and took a nice moose a couple of years ago. He noted to me several times during the hunt that he thought it almost impossible to do as a non resident. The crap we brought on the hunt, and the processing afterward was a chore for us, and we started and ended right out of my hunter put together house! A good guide could certainly ease the rough edges.

I wouldn't actually know, outside of Africa I've never used one.

Almost impossible to do a moose hunt as a non-res. what the ???

Seems to me he wasnt prepared for AK. Moose is just a bigger deer.its not overwhelming.

It's pretty easy for me. Rent a jet boat at one of the military bases (thank god for military privlidges) for $200 for a week. Why own one when the Army MWR can pay maintenace on thing thing.

Put in, float up river, whack moose, reverse tactical order and home.

Or fly out and float. More work, but probably a better experience.

Well Joel, imagine being in Dillingham, staying in the local hotel, and being dumped off by the local air taxi at the end of the hunt back at the hotel front door with your dirty gear, a 60" moose rack and seven quarter bags full of meat. You're from North Dakota, never been in Alaska much less Dillingham.

In this case what is the plan?

Having done the moose thing a few times in my opinion it'd be hard to properly manage a moose out in Dillingham without having a "Local Option".

I lived in AK for nearly 5 years. I had a C-180 and flew all over the place and hunted all over the place. I lived and hunted out of Kotzebue, Nome, Fairbanks, and Deadhorse.

I can't go and hunt sheep goats or bear without a guide now as I am no longer a resident. Which is fine I understand the economics of the situation. And make no mistake that the guide requirement is all about the MONEY.

HOWEVER don't sit there and talk to me about tender footed chechakos automatically getting lost and dieing the moment they set foot in the Alaskan wilderness and such. When some dude from NYC who's never walked further than a city block and has never even seen a rifle before moving to the great land can move to Anchorage. A year later after sitting in his apartment watching TV and flipping $20 bills at the Bush Company can go anywhere he wishes in the state and hunt non guided.

Apparently through osmosis he suddenly has better outdoor and hunting skills than I. Simply because he lives in Los Anchorage?

Much of the country I hunt here in Colorado is tougher and higher and just as deadly as that which is found in AK. Outdoor skills are outdoor skills period. Local knowledge can be learned and quality professional guides definitely have their place. But I'd say that the average guy without personal knowledge of the outfitter on a guided hunt in AK has about a 50/50 chance of getting a good guide. There are a BUNCH of incompetent A-holes in the hunting business up there.

D99,
To be sure the hunting is possible, once it's over, once the quarter bags are full, now what?

We always head right back to my house and cut and wrap 'til it's in the freezer. Generally my out of town friend leaves before the meat is cool enough to ship so I air freight to them a week or so later.

In Dillingham non resident "Failure to Salvage" and "Wanton Waste" is common. Seriously, what does a hotel guest do with over 100 pounds of boned out neck meat?

Sure it's possible, but I don't think I'd want to do it.

I'm not in any way trying to sell a guided hunt here, I don't have anything to do with the guide business in Alaska and don't particularly like them anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
I lived in AK for nearly 5 years. I had a C-180 and flew all over the place and hunted all over the place. I lived and hunted out of Kotzebue, Nome, Fairbanks, and Deadhorse.

I can't go and hunt sheep goats or bear without a guide now as I am no longer a resident. Which is fine I understand the economics of the situation. And make no mistake that the guide requirement is all about the MONEY.

HOWEVER don't sit there and talk to me about tender footed chechakos automatically getting lost and dieing the moment they set foot in the Alaskan wilderness and such. When some dude from NYC who's never walked further than a city block and has never even seen a rifle before moving to the great land can move to Anchorage. A year later after sitting in his apartment watching TV and flipping $20 bills at the Bush Company can go anywhere he wishes in the state and hunt non guided.

Apparently through osmosis he suddenly has better outdoor and hunting skills than I. Simply because he lives in Los Anchorage?

Much of the country I hunt here in Colorado is tougher and higher and just as deadly as that which is found in AK. Outdoor skills are outdoor skills period. Local knowledge can be learned and quality professional guides definitely have their place. But I'd say that the average guy without personal knowledge of the outfitter on a guided hunt in AK has about a 50/50 chance of getting a good guide. There are a BUNCH of incompetent A-holes in the hunting business up there.

Thank you for stating my feelings in a much more articulate way. My experince with guides in Idaho working for them as a wrangler is similar. Many "guides" are inexperianced and I fear now plunking $12000 down on one would be a monumental waste of money.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:


It's a common sense law that decreases the ammount of search and rescue dollars spent in Wyoming.

I don't agree its a common sense law. Whats common sense is that anyone who ventures into the wilderness without a guide does so at his own risk. I don't think people should be protected from themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I can take my dads wife and step kids but I cant take my dads brother.!!!???

I can take my wifes brother or my brothers wife.
But I cant take my dads brother!!!???

Its my wife's dad's cousin's husband, so I'm SOL.
At least Wyo lets you go with a Wyo resident, which makes more sense to me than this degree of kindred nonsense.

It's all about the money.

I still hunt black bear, caribou and moose on occasion as a non resident. I used to borrow a buddies plane and hunt out of Kotzebue and on occasion out of Mc Grath. I've had some great solo (unguided) hunts as a nonresident and I haven't killed myself....YET..

As far as the meat goes I don't try and ship it home. I give it to my buddies or most villages have a place to donate it.

A moose ain't nothing more than four quarters some back straps and ribs when you get down to it. Take your time and pace yourself. Before you know it the job will be done.

Guys,
Why the guide bashing. Many of us have years of experience in the Alaskan Bush. We are paid to deliver results to people that are looking for a true hunting experience. Whether they tag out or not is not the definition of a true hunt. Yes we would like them to be successful but sometimes no mtater what they are not.
The bashing from mr king on here is typical of the dillingham attitude. Non resident hunters wanton waste in dillingham is not just the fault of the hunters but also the fault of residents and guides there. Also the comment about little havana guides and leaving when the snow flys. What a joke. Some people prefer to live in warmer climates does that make their qualifications any less than yours. Are you even a guide. Have you taken the tests that are required to become a registered guide and have you looked @ the qualifications to even do so or the dollars its costs.
Some of the regulations they set may seem ridiculous to you but they are put in place to not only create revenue for the state but for the protection of non resident hunters. Cry and wine about guides and outfitters but and the requirments to become one but they are there for a reason like it or not.

It amazes me that so many are so quick to hammer the guides up here.......there are many sub-standard guides in most hunting locations, not just Alaska.

Some of those being critical of the guides need to be honest about their abilities, too, when choosing a guide.......you should see some of the "hunters" that come to Alaska to hunt.....they're pathetic.....when their hunt is the pits, it's the guide that's called into question......the guide is usually too nice to speak of the inabilities of their "client hunter"......lots of , "Hey, can you supersize that??????? types coming up......can hardly walk from the plane to basecamp.

As far as the non-resident guide requirement, it was implemented first in 1925-26 by the Alaskan Territorial Governor as a conservation measure due to the influx of NR hunters, traveling to the Kenai Peninsula on steamboats, hammering the sheep, moose and caribou populations.......it is a conservation measure today, as well.

I was in camp about five years ago w/an ass. guide that was from the SE US and he was telling his clients that bands of ewes and lambs were immature Dall rams and that was a good sign......the client knew better. When asked, I always tell prospective clients to ask if they're hunting w/an ass. guide......if so who is he/she(the assistant guide)......get contact info....talk to them, and give them a good grilling. Good assistant guides, w/Alaska hunting experience, are not behind every tree and bush.

I believe you'll see the day when all Alaskan big game will become draw for non-residents.

I also believe that all registered guides should be required to produce background info on their assistants, not just a glowing letter to the state. SE US whitetail and turkey experience doesn't measure up.

While the tests and costs of the tests to become a registered guide are an obstacle(the reg book for a guide must be seen to be believed), they're certainly not insurmountable, and the return is pretty good, too, on the investment, in time and $$$$$$...now is the time to mention that they don't do it for the money, eh?...non-resident hunter waste is a problem statewise, not a Dillingham problem......very few non-res hunters figure the cost of shipping meat(big game or fish) back home in the cost of their hunt......it's expensive......

As far as the "looking forloopholes" mentioned, I know of a nice Dall ram taken by a non-res that falsified info......I was happy to introduce myself and take several pictures of him and his ram......I mailed him his copies of the pics the same day I turned the other copies into Fish & Game......I might also mention that it's the law in Alaska for a guide, registered or otherwise, to report any violation they see....been that way since 1925-26.

I believe that, if you guide in Alaska, you should live here.......I also believe that Alaska residents come first and that all Alaskan big game should go to draw hunts for non-res and require guides.......let the flames begin.

Joe

Joe,

No flames from me. I dont hate all guides. Just like anything, there are good and bad ones.

My wife gets raked over the coals by guides all the time in her job and after hearing the stories and seeing her pissed when she comes home, it kinda turns me off on guides.

Scott, sounds like piss poor planning to me. Sure, a moose hunt isnt easy for a DIY'er but if you dont plan right or spend enough money, yeah its gonna be a PIA.

quote:

Originally posted by ovis:
It amazes me that so many are so quick to hammer the guides up here.......there are many sub-standard guides in most hunting locations, not just Alaska.

Joe

The point being of course is not that there aren't incompetent guides elsewhere in the US only that I am not forced to hunt with them in other places.

Like I said there is definitely a place for the professional hunter in AK. I wish that you guys had a better system of policing the bad ones out.

MS,

I said I don't much care for guides and it's true, but I think earlier in this thread I recommended hunting with a guide because of the logistical problems a non resident faces when handling as an example, 150# of boned out neck meat from the hotel room. I also said I am not in anyway associated with any kind of guide business. I mentioned my lack of love for guides as a disclaimer, lest anyone thought I was trying to sell non residents on some service for my profit. In truth I would prefer that there are guides operating in Dillingham and Unit 17 since tourism is a good economic engine for our region.

Ok, Joel, how do you get away from the piss poor planning? Dillingham has almost a complete lack of suitable hunter type assistance programs. Yet Dillingham and Unit 17 has some of the best non resident moose hunting in the state.

I can tell you from experience that a non resident has all the cards stacked against them when they return to Dillingham from a successful moose hunt and attempt to get their trophy and meat back to (for example,) North Dakota properly. A competent guide service usually comes with ground and air transportation, trophy and game meat expediting, lodging and all the rest of the accomodations a tourist hunter needs.

So, for this reason, I recommend non residents using guides for hunting trips for moose.

Read and follow the rules. They aren't that complicated. If you hunt anything but brown bear, sheep or goats you can probably do it as a non-resident without a guide at all--in which case having a distant relative along would be all to the good.

For those who lived here for years and moved away, you probably have more experience here than many.... Too Bad. Move back. Hunting here isn't really cheap for anyone, and most folks don't seem to understand that.

Just my .02, and I know I sound like an ass on this one. If the law said "hunting with a resident" counted, I think there would be more questionable "guiding" going on, and it would be a bad thing.

Cheers,

Dan

Scott, I guess I will type slower. I never said it was easy. If its that much of a pain in the ass, people shouldnt hunt out of dillingham.

There is always a way, may have to get creative and it will probably cost some extra$$$ but there is always a way.

Joel,
Thanks for the slow typing. I'm certainly slower than most and I didn't realize until you spaled it ot fur me that you were willing to throw away good money after bad thrashing your way thru a DIY non Alaska resident moose hunt.

Epiphany! Dillingham is the place for you! We have $200.00 per night hotel rooms, $500.00 round trip plane tickets, I'm afraid to ask how much rental cars cost, $5.00 per gallon gasoline, $8.00 per gallon milk, etc,.....

Come Joel,...hunt,... spend,....enjoy!

I was born and raised in Pa. and have successfully hunted and backpacked Alaska solo several times, will do so again. By solo I mean being dropped off in the tundra or on the beach by air taxi and being picked up 5-7 days later. The areas I have been are Dillingham-Koliganek, Brooks Anaktuvuk Pass area, a few times and places in the Alaska range, several times in the southern POW Wilderness area. It ain't that big of a deal. On only one occasion did I use a guide because I drew a goat tag and that was on Kodiak.

To me it is all about a good guide lobby, and that ain't putting down the guides. They have to look out for their own interests.

Non-hunters, such as amateur photographers, hikers, and backpackers, by the 10s of thousands every year roam around Ak bear country unemcumbered by a guiding law. I have never heard of any movement attempting to restrict this type of activity for safety reasons. I suppose it is figured that they are adults and are capable of accepting the risk and taking responsibility for their actions. If it was about meat recovery, there is already very descriptive laws on the books about this. If you don't follow them then you will pay the price.

Scott, what the hell are you talking about??? If people want to half ass hunting in an area thats logistically impaired. they deserve what they get. A bunch of damn whiners. Plain and simple. You do things cheap and you pay the piper.

Hate to tell you but I am sure more than a few moose hunters on DIY hunts were successful and didnt complain one bit about it. Sounds like your friends (or whoever the hell it was) was cheap and now all of a sudden its not doable. Give me a break. I call that piss poor planning.

Next time I gotta type even slower. You seem to think that I said it was cheap to hunt out of your area, where I actually said it wasnt cheap. I dont care how much things cost out there by you. I agreed the whole time that it was gonna be spendy.

Let me share one more thing with the folks that are looking for a guide......not too long ago, a guide was listed here as the end all of registered guides.......probably was with the gent that stated he had "extensive AK experience"(he killed something) and had a great hunt with him.......

I'll just say that the Alaska State Troopers have a page on their website that you can look up a criminal record by name.......nuff said!

Get the entire list of guides, both registered and assistant guides, from Fish & Game......look 'em up.......you might be surprised......

Another good point was brought up here.....the thousands, sorry, "tens of thousands" of non-consumptive users that travel all over Alaska......many use local nature and photography guides.....I have a neighbor that makes a decent living guiding these folks.....no, no mandated guide requirement for them......

I think the State of Alaska should have a non-consumptive use permit & let them support conservation the way hunters and fishermen do.......

Joe

I think that non-residents should only be allowed to take one caribou, as many wolves as they can, and one bear, even in multibear areas.

You know Joel I typed a really wise acre reply and decided it would be bad form.

If I may, in review, I believe I suggested using a guide when hunting a place like Dillingham for something as big and unwieldly as a dead moose.

You suggested a guide wasn't needed, you just needed to spend some extra $$$.

Perhaps we were both right, spend the extra $$$ by hiring a guide.

The truth is IF there are no or very limited non resident hunter resources available then all the (as you suggest,) creativity or extra $$$ just isn't going to help the DIY hunter. If the resource isn't there you can't buy it, nor can your creativity help create it.

In Dillingham, there is excellent moose hunting available to the non resident. There are also very limited hunter resources available to the non resident DIY moose hunter. These both being true, I suggested from my experience living in the area using a guide. I haven't found non resident Unit 17 moose hunters or my friend to be "damn whiners,cheap, or half ass".

I just wouldn't know what else to tell you. Again, I believe I speak from many years of Bush hunting experience. I asked you at least once how you would suggest getting away from the "piss poor planning," and you replied with slower typing. I can only assume that you have no experience, just another internet authority.