Scott, I must say you are real good at turning around words. I never said for some one not to use a guide. In alot of cases it is easier.

I was just stating that it isnt impossible to do a DIY hunt for moose. more difficult but some folks like to do it on there own.

Hell, I was agreeing with you on some aspects and you still have to argue.

As for my expieriance, I dont have to prove anything to you or anybody. When folks start talking about the other person monday morning quarterbacking on the internet, I just laugh cuz they have no where else to go (argue with).

Have a nice day.

quote:

Originally posted by Joel/AK:

.... Moose is just a bigger deer.its not overwhelming.

As for your "expieriance," if this is how you envision moose, I guess that speaks volumes.

quote:

Originally posted by ovis:


I'll just say that the Alaska State Troopers have a page on their website that you can look up a criminal record by name.......nuff said!

Get the entire list of guides, both registered and assistant guides, from Fish & Game......look 'em up.......you might be surprised......

Joe

Joe that is my point. Does the state of AK have any limits on guys with certain types of criminal history holding a Guide license?

The state does a piss poor job of regulating who can have a guide license so the AKPHA should do it for them. Get the scumbags out of the business.

surestrike
A.P.H.A. has been working on this very issue.
Keep in mind that the professional hunters association is just that and are powerless in regulating the rouge outfitters. Still they have been present at all guide board meetings and some solutions are being addressed.

Surestrike & Akshooter,


surestrike, I honestly don't know what type of criminal history it takes to keep one out of the business.......it's a sad situation......when you've been around and in the business, it's down right depressing.

I'll add, that most of the "problem" guides are not even members of the A.P.H.A......APHA does what it can, but it's up to the State to come down hard on these guys......there's so much territory up here and so few F&G troopers to cover the territory......but when they get down behind one, they do a hell of a job in almost all cases in busting the offenders.

My personal observation is after the State lets them back in, and they almost always do, there is a high rate of recidivism......when a bad hunt is reported, that report seldom scratches the surface and could be there's a lot of blame to place on all parties involved. There are a lot of good hunt reports for these offenders......they can't continue if all reports are bad......remember, they're bad, not stupid.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
Alaska's NR guide requirement is pretty clearly stated. Any locals know of any loopholes ?

I have a fiend there but no blood relatives within 1st kindred.

Send your friend an airline ticket.

Meet him in Massachusetts.

Get Married.

Problem solved.

I have no problem using a Guide or Outfitter.It would just be nice to know that the one you choose is on the up and up and not a scam artist.I have hunted Moose and Bou out of Drop camps with friends with success and no guide.I know I could not judge a Sheep or Big Bear and don`t mind paying for somes ones experience.Alaska is not alone in having some Guides,Outfitters of dubious character.There are also some great guides who work their Butts off for you.I think that the big complaint by most guys is in having to hire an incompetent guide just to satisfy State Laws.As far as Hunters showing up not in condition to do a hunt,too bad for them unless they have Physical limitations that were explained ahead of time to the Guide. my 2 cents OB

quote:

Originally posted by Gator1:

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
Alaska's NR guide requirement is pretty clearly stated. Any locals know of any loopholes ?

I have a fiend there but no blood relatives within 1st kindred.

Send your friend an airline ticket.

Meet him in Massachusetts.

Get Married.

Problem solved.

He is originally from California...

FWIW I have no problem with guides. Its the risk of getting a bad one that scares me. Hunts in alaska tend to be double to triple the cost of hunts in the lower states so the stakes are MUCH higher..

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
FWIW I have no problem with guides. Its the risk of getting a bad one that scares me. Hunts in alaska tend to be double to triple the cost of hunts in the lower states so the stakes are MUCH higher..

Try this first then. Plan a moose hunt up here and see how much that will cost and the logistic involve and see how much money and time you'll spend before you shoot a nice moose. There are lots of games that are unique to AK that you can hunt without the use of a guide. Have you hunted caribou, Musk Ox, or a Sitka blacktail? Hunting up here involves a lot of money and time. Lots of hunters from the lower 48 do not realize the time, money, and effort involve to harvest a sheep, goat, or brown bear. In general, people who has a lot of Alaskan hunting time in tend to look at a post like this and say to themselves, "Here goes another guy from the lower 48 who thinks he can hop in his truck and go pop a sheep over the weekend." I am not shooting down at your abilities or anyone else's. It's just looking back at how I used to think before I came to Alaska that makes me post this. I hope you get to hunt Alaska one day, Alaska is awesome!

quote:

Originally posted by HARDBALLER:

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
FWIW I have no problem with guides. Its the risk of getting a bad one that scares me. Hunts in alaska tend to be double to triple the cost of hunts in the lower states so the stakes are MUCH higher..

Try this first then. Plan a moose hunt up here and see how much that will cost and the logistic involve and see how much money and time you'll spend before you shoot a nice moose. There are lots of games that are unique to AK that you can hunt without the use of a guide. Have you hunted caribou, Musk Ox, or a Sitka blacktail? Hunting up here involves a lot of money and time. Lots of hunters from the lower 48 do not realize the time, money, and effort involve to harvest a sheep, goat, or brown bear. In general, people who has a lot of Alaskan hunting time in tend to look at a post like this and say to themselves, "Here goes another guy from the lower 48 who thinks he can hop in his truck and go pop a sheep over the weekend." I am not shooting down at your abilities or anyone else's. It's just looking back at how I used to think before I came to Alaska that makes me post this. I hope you get to hunt Alaska one day, Alaska is awesome!

I have distant family and a good friend in AK. So it'll be like having a guide, only less expensive. The reason the rule really burns me is my friend is an experienced sheep hunter and really puts in the effort to locate animals.

I'm going to start off with a black bear/Sitka blacktial hunt, then caribou, then moose, depending on how things go.

Dpeneding on the Area you are hunting be aware of all non resident hunting regulations.
The Dillingham militia and the Native alotment have blamed the reduction in Caribou #'s on non resident hunters hence closing the some River drainages in unit 17 and other units - 2 miles on each side of the drainages from the main channel completly to non residents. They have closed non resident hunting for moose on the same drainages unless you make a special trip to dillingham ( which means extra flights,hotel stays, food and lodging all inspiring the local economy)sometime in the summer up to aug 31 to get a non resident Corridor permit. So if you plan on hunting with residents or Natives in these areas you need to fully understand that just because they can hunt there does not mean you can. This is another reason to hunt with a professional guide and outfitter who keeps up on all regulation changes as there can be many and it can change year to year.

Just a heads up

Yes alot of the game laws are about $$$$$$$$$$$$$ more than public saftey ......I think most of the posters on this forum would be keen enough to do things right and not be like the doctor in Juneau who got mauled friday morning in Seymor Canal,poor guy ...But perhaps it is good that the bear who chewed him up some was able to release his stress and wander off . ...I hope this doesn,t become common ....I wonder if bears have endorphins ,. mayby when a bear puts the chew on a person they realease endorphins ...//////////////Where was I now .....oh ya , Wayfarer , if you promise to get and learn how to shoot a 375 or 416 real well.. and come up here and shoot some big predators then I promise I won,t tell on you .....But stay away from my moose.....Regardless of what Scott says the place isn,t over run with bull moose....,Ya kill all the bears and wolves you possibly can ,., that is something we are over run with ......Do something to help our prey species ... ,.,., Don,t just deplete it like every other DSMF .,.,.,Have a great series of hunts ...then move up here .,.,.and if your lucky you can get 1 moose or caribou ......

Okay, look, I sure don't post on this forum to make anyone mad, ( I do that more than I should or would like to in face to face encounters,) so I sincerely appologise for offending MS, Joel, and anyone else. I mean it! I'm sorry.

Now having said that, MS, the limits were put in place on the Mulchatna and other areas because the unlimited guide use was deemed by the state wide Game Commision to be detrimental to the already badly declining Mulchatna caribou herd. Of course you're aware there have been several severe restrictions placed on resident hunting of the Mulchatna herd. In several other states I have noticed that resident hunters generally have less restrictions on hunting a particular game animal than non residents, i.e. Kaibab mule deer in Arizona. I hope you don't find it suprising that Alaska would do the same with the Mulchatna Caribou.

Everyone knows the caribou herds state wide are cyclical. No, the "Dillingham militia," doesn't blame guides. The State Dept of Fish and Game has noted that the Mulchatna herd numbered about the same in the 1970's as it does today. Up and down. Up and down. Up and down.

MS, you know full well that when herd numbers increase in the Mulchatna caribou you and the rest of the guides will be able to return to unfettered hunting. Can I safely assume MS that as a responsible Alaskan guide you disprove of Unlimited Guide Use and have been actively working to find a managable solution?

Gumboot, of course I didn't say anything as silly as "over run with bull moose.". I believe I said something to the effect of moose expanding their traditional or historical range.
The moose herd in and around McGrath? Increasing.
Dillingham and Unit 17? Increasing.
Yukon River Delta? Increasing.
As I understand it they are still running over as many moose as ever with their cars in Wasilla, Anchorage and Fairbanks. If the moose numbers are declining or even not so darn good why in the world did the Fish and Game have a cow hunt around Delta Junction? I hope no one will be so silly as to say to get rid of all the moose so they have less work to do!

If you think so, how exactly am I in accurate when I say that state wide moose are expanding their historical range and therefore increasing in herd numbers? I'd like to have a quote from an identifiable and reputable source if you don't mind. If any of you'd like I will do the research in the next couple of days to prove my assertion on moose herd numbers. Shall I gather hard numbers from quotable sources? Any takers?

Edited to add facts.

.......I did it this time ....I apoligize for flippin you crap Scott .,., That wasn,t my intent.,.I am fairly sure your # are correct but there still are fewer bull moose to shoot than there could be by far ... There is alot of country I looked over this fall that was pretty darn moose less.,., .,.,Ya too many people hit moose with vehicles , myself included ..., The point I was trying to get across to Wayfarer was if he wants to do something GO DO IT .......quit squalling over what can,t be done because someone told him he couldn,t.......Where there is a will there is a way ....,.,.It seems everyone wants to come kill a brn bear ....Boy they sure got my blessing on those endevours ...............We all have to live with stupid game laws that benifit the wrong people ..Right now I,m in an area where even tho it is over run with brn bear we can,t kill more than 1 every 4 years ..,.,.,Why ,,, Tourism ....So the stupid cruise ships can disgourge its passanger load to take pictures or a real live brown bear ...So the bears eat half the fawn crop and a good amount of adult deer as well and come deer season its pretty thin ,,mostly because of last winter but hundreds of brn bear in this small area didn,t help at all. .......Where I worked all summer the limit was 1 grizzly and 3 black per year ,.and I didn,t see a track in 8 months....To me that is bull shit biology ............Here it should be 2 bear per year and the road system should be able to be used with motorized vehicles ..........And it should remain that way until we get the bears weeded out and they regain a very healthy fear of man and his stuff ....blank the tourists ....So the down south guys should come up here and hang out for 1 year they should show up in the spring and spend the whole year hanging out studying bears and at 1 year and a day they should shoot their bear and not let the door hit them in the ass on their way to the jet ,south... .....and of course this is just my humble opinion .....

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
I am fairly sure your # are correct but there still are fewer bull moose to shoot than there could be by far ... ..

Gumboot on this point I totally agree! There are never enough bull moose to shoot.

Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I can take my dads wife and step kids but I cant take my dads brother.!!!???

I can take my wifes brother or my brothers wife.
But I cant take my dads brother!!!???

Sounds like that Ray Stephens son "My Own Grandpa".

Bwana King,

I actually think there are enough bull moose but not enough people willing to make a plan to get one. As for using a guide on a moose hunt I think it makes too much sence to use one for a non resident. Just for the increased success rate I think a guide is more than adviseable. A very successful pilot that does drop-off hunts as a big part of his business told me that his DIY non resident moose clients actually have about a 10% success rate. Most DIY moose hunters have no idea how to go about it. They can't call or have even tried, they really don't know what a legal moose looks like and they just don't know how to hunt them. Just because a guy has had good luck with elk and deer does not mean he can find a big moose in miles and miles of boreal forest.

Mark

I have made an arrangement to temporarily divorce my wife and marry my best hunting pal's daughter. She is thirteen. And an Alaska resident. Upon completion of the hunt I will fly her to Vegas, divorce her and re-marry my ex. I can't believe you chumps haven't figured this one out.

Crane,

I figured out one even better. I'm sending my son to college in Alaska, and after he has been there a year I can hunt with him for sheep, goat and bear. For what I save on guide fees, I can put him through college!

And before anyone questions my commitment or ability, I hunted Alaska some 15-20 trips now (lost count), including three guided sheep hunts, D-I-Y Moose hunts (my personal best is only 71"), caribou, black bear and blacktail deer hunts. I have used guides only when required by law. One was exceptional, who I now consider a friend, one was average, and the third was a total crook. And on that trip I was hunting with the "Master Guide" and Outfitter. I filed reports with both ANWR and the state division of occupational licensing. No real action has been forthcoming. The guide law is a total joke, designed only to keep the inept in business. Quality guides don't need this type of "help".

Bill

See you guys figured it out ....No Problem !!!!!!If there wern,t more people wanting to hunt than there are guides , animals and time ., The prices wouldn,t be where they are ...If ya don,t like it blame B&C Pope & Young ans SCI...When a client gets off the plane and proclaims that he really wants his name in a book and that he will pay for it ..What do you expect to happen .,.,.

Ilamapacker,

Brilliant!

theres millionaers who can afford anything then the next class seems to be rich cops who cant afford a $ 20000 hunt maybe every 3 years and there still young enough to read the maps and can still walk and even they are startin to figure out that diy are about as expensive as going to africa and shoot a truckload of stuff and not have to do all the work. the problem with alaska is so much is mountains or snowfields or islands is that everybody has to hunt the same place and with no industry everybody is guiding or chartering just to make a living and cruise ships where nobody used to go 20 yrs ago. 10 yrs ago ever bear you saw on kuiu was record book now there is none. at least 2 guides are goat hunting blue lake in sitka .this is what 5 miles from town on the road systen with what about 10 to 15 goats in the area you can park and watch them with binocs and only a couple are billys . guides are guiding deer on baranof there may be lots of deer but even the spotliters cant hardly get a 3point. i think the guides and locals that have been here for yrs are gettin tired of seein some huge boat or bunch of people every place you go . i hate to be this way but icant afford to hunt your neighborhood i live here and eat this stuff , maybe the canadians got it right dont live here dont hunt and if you do you support the locals. gunwriters write an article and 100 people show up at that spot next year think about that

quote:

Originally posted by llamapacker:


And before anyone questions my commitment or ability,....
Bill

I couldn't help it I had to come back.

You think anybody is going to question anything about sending your son on to higher education in Alaska and as a side benefit you get to avoid all the guide requirements by hunting with your son?

Please.

Again, brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
I have made an arrangement to temporarily divorce my wife and marry my best hunting pal's daughter. She is thirteen. And an Alaska resident. Upon completion of the hunt I will fly her to Vegas, divorce her and re-marry my ex. I can't believe you chumps haven't figured this one out.

If she is only 13, they will make you a resident
of Spring Creek Correctional facility. Better wait 5 yrs. Some things are illegal Even in Alaska

Crane, by the time you pay for the non-res tutition, higher living expenses up here, his counseling for winter depression, rehab from being an alchy, your better of hiring guides. It takes a tough dude to live up here .

tsturm- I worried about it when she was eight, but she's a pretty big gal for 13.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Bwana King,

I actually think there are enough bull moose but not enough people willing to make a plan to get one. As for using a guide on a moose hunt I think it makes too much sence to use one for a non resident. Just for the increased success rate I think a guide is more than adviseable. A very successful pilot that does drop-off hunts as a big part of his business told me that his DIY non resident moose clients actually have about a 10% success rate. Most DIY moose hunters have no idea how to go about it. They can't call or have even tried, they really don't know what a legal moose looks like and they just don't know how to hunt them. Just because a guy has had good luck with elk and deer does not mean he can find a big moose in miles and miles of boreal forest.

Mark

Mark, I think you are right on one part. I think there are plenty of bull moose in the state, but, I think the guides do better for more reasons than skill.

If you are charging 10,000+ dollars to a client from the lower 48, then you can't just rely on hard work and skill. IT TAKES A LOT OF FLYING HOURS.

I'm sorry, but the guides who are SOOOO successful are flying around and finding the big/legal bulls. If there are cows around, they (bulls) aren't leaving. Now, once it's located, yes, it takes skill to get one in range, but if it comes to percentages, the guides have the upper hand when it comes to flight hours and finding bulls.

It's a proven fact, there are MANY residents here in Bethel that have airplanes and they get their moose EVERY year. Because they have skill???? maybe, but my money's on the fact that they have the flight hours.

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
I have made an arrangement to temporarily divorce my wife and marry my best hunting pal's daughter. She is thirteen. And an Alaska resident. Upon completion of the hunt I will fly her to Vegas, divorce her and re-marry my ex. I can't believe you chumps haven't figured this one out.

And you think guides are expensive ! ?

I've been guiding in this state now for almost thirty years and will admit that our laws are not perfect - but neither are hunters.
There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
Yes there are crooked - unqualified outfitters. there are in any profession. There are also a few well qualified non-resident hunters - but both are in the minority.

How many non-resident hunters are as qualified at judging between a two year old sow brown bear and a large boar than even the rawest assistant guide?
I have seen more tiny ( and I mean suitcase sized ) bears killed by GI's who have been in the state a little over a year than by even the most unqualified guide.

As for sheep I know that the chance of loosing their license if they allow a hunter to take a sub-legal sheep keeps guides legal - while a $500 or $1000 fine to a non-resident sheep hunter ( especialy if they didn't have to pay a guide ) would mean little.
State game laws are drawn up to first protect the resources.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
I have made an arrangement to temporarily divorce my wife and marry my best hunting pal's daughter. She is thirteen. And an Alaska resident. Upon completion of the hunt I will fly her to Vegas, divorce her and re-marry my ex. I can't believe you chumps haven't figured this one out.

And you think guides are expensive ! ?

I've been guiding in this state now for almost thirty years and will admit that our laws are not perfect - but neither are hunters.
There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
Yes there are crooked - unqualified outfitters. there are in any profession. There are also a few well qualified non-resident hunters - but both are in the minority.

How many non-resident hunters are as qualified at judging between a two year old sow brown bear and a large boar than even the rawest assistant guide?
I have seen more tiny ( and I mean suitcase sized ) bears killed by GI's who have been in the state a little over a year than by even the most unqualified guide.

As for sheep I know that the chance of loosing their license if they allow a hunter to take a sub-legal sheep keeps guides legal - while a $500 or $1000 fine to a non-resident sheep hunter ( especialy if they didn't have to pay a guide ) would mean little.
State game laws are drawn up to first protect the resources.

The first reasonable explanation I have ever heard for the requirement to use a guide. I still don't agree with it and in fact feel its discrimination and unconstitutional.

I also find it laughable that a resident living in Anchorage and working in an office is more capable of judging then any other person regardless of where they live. Its just that the state of AK can get away with the requirement for non residents and would never be able to pull it off with residents.

Howard, You are correct that the law has some problems but as for the constitutionality of it I believe the US supreme court has ruled (about a case in Arizona) that all states have the right to charge non-residents more and to place additional restrictions on them as well (like guides and stricter limits)
In addition Alaska is unusual with the Alaska National Interest land Claims act which says it has to give priority over game to RURAL residents in times of shortages.